2000 - 2003 vintage GV vs same vintage Unicoach

Topic: 2000 - 2003 vintage GV vs same vintage Unicoach (Read 1874 times) previous topic - next topic

2000 - 2003 vintage GV vs same vintage Unicoach

September 27, 2016, 07:40:59 pm

I have been looking at Barry website (wow, what great information for you Foretravel folks) as I am researching an older, high end coach to buy and fix up for full time travel. I currently own an '02 DP coach and wish to "upgrade" by getting into a coach that was much higher-end and better built when new than was my current coach. From what I'be been able to determine Foretravel is probably the 2nd best purpose-built fiberglass motorhome (Newell being #1 IMHO), so Foretravel and Bluebird is on my short list.

I am particularly drawn to the styling on the GV body. I see that not many were built after 2000, which is also interesting to me...I am drawn to unique, vintage machines. So assuming I might be lucky enough to locate that vintage GV, I am interested in knowing what, if any, chassis differences are there in the few GV models built from 2000 - 2003.

Thanks

Re: 2000 - 2003 vintage GV vs same vintage Unicoach

Reply #1 – September 27, 2016, 08:08:37 pm

Check the Foretravel web site they have a 2000 GV320, it is built on the same chassis as a U320.

Re: 2000 - 2003 vintage GV vs same vintage Unicoach

Reply #2 – September 27, 2016, 08:29:30 pm

Quote from: Bill Willett – September 27, 2016, 08:08:37 pm

Check the Foretravel web site they have a 2000 GV320, it is built on the same chassis as a U320.

MOT has one as well.

Edited to add, looks like it sold.

Re: 2000 - 2003 vintage GV vs same vintage Unicoach

Reply #3 – September 27, 2016, 09:18:02 pm

Tom, we looked at 'Birds and Newells before buying our Foretravel. All three are high quality coaches, using the same engines and transmissions, but there are major differences. A 'Bird is a stainless steel body with fiberglass endcaps. I believe that they have Jake brakes, rather than retarders, but I may be wrong on that as we were looking at older coaches than you. They also use hydraulic jacks for leveling, which means that you will need pretty stout pads to put under the jacks if you don't want to punch holes in the asphalt/campground. ('Birds are heavy.) Newells are aluminum-skinned, so hail can be a real problem. Like Foretravels, the airbags are used for leveling, so even though they are as heavy as 'Birds, they don't need pads for leveling.

Personally, I think that I'd rank the three as Foretravel, Newell, 'Bird, but that's me. I honestly thought we'd buy a 'Bird, but saw this coach first and never looked at anything else. I don't care for the "bling" of Newell, and I don't like the hydraulic jacks of the 'Bird.

The 2000 GV320 has been at Foretravel for quite a while, and the price has been dropping. I asked about it a while back, and it seems that it may have some problems, but I don't think that anyone here has really done a thorough inspection of it. May have just been overpriced, and is now properly priced. If you're interested in it I'd strongly suggest that you hire Brett Wolfe to check it out for you.

Re: 2000 - 2003 vintage GV vs same vintage Unicoach

Reply #4 – September 27, 2016, 09:22:38 pm

Hmm, I didn't realize that a BB body is stainless steel....

Re: 2000 - 2003 vintage GV vs same vintage Unicoach

Reply #5 – September 27, 2016, 10:36:46 pm

Tom,
Lot of Newell and Bluebird experts on this forum that have never even been inside one. I have owned all three and have to say Foretravels are the best bang for the buck, far and above most other dp"s.
Wanderlodges have not been made since 2007, made for gearheads like me, but unfortunately went out of business.
New Newells are very expensive, [twice the price of an IH45] and you wait a year for delivery There is a reason for this. Newells are only for people who can work on them or afford to pay people to work on them. The quality is there and the coach is well worth the money if you want the very best and any option you need. Newells are designed by the original owner- flashy or non flashy. My 95 is not glitzy but subdued more like a Foretravel. That being said, Foretravel is an excellent coach and when the time comes when I am unable to drive my 45 ft Newell, I will be looking for a 36 or 40 ft Foretravel GV.
Jim

Re: 2000 - 2003 vintage GV vs same vintage Unicoach

Reply #6 – September 27, 2016, 10:40:21 pm

Quote from: ShelbyTom – September 27, 2016, 07:40:59 pm

... I am interested in knowing what, if any, chassis differences are there in the few GV models built from 2000 - 2003.

I don't think there are any chassis differences. As far as I know the difference is strictly style.

Foretravel brought back the GV because so many older Grand Villa owners longed for them. But apparently they just didn't sell that well. I'm sure Foretravel would have made more if the demand was there. I like the GV look too but there is a trade-off with space: cabinets above the driver/passenger and basement space. The mid-door configuration means the storage bay is disrupted by the stairwell. The space is made up by having another storage area in front of the passenger side front tire but broken up space is not as useful typically. Some people, myself included, do like the mid door for various reasons - for it's a short distance from the kitchen to outside under the awning and dirt doesn't get trampled through the living room. There are a few bus style Foretravels out there with a mid-door entry. For obvious reasons there are no front entry GVs.

Re: 2000 - 2003 vintage GV vs same vintage Unicoach

Reply #7 – September 29, 2016, 09:04:07 am

Thanks so much for the replies to my post. I appreciate the opinions and suggestions. I am thankful for this forum to assist as we embark on our due diligence in pursuit of a Foretravel that meets our needs.

Re: 2000 - 2003 vintage GV vs same vintage Unicoach

Reply #8 – September 29, 2016, 09:09:33 am

P.S. -- I am curious of those of you that have some miles behind the wheel in both a Foretravel with trans retarder and a comparably heavy coach with a Jake or exhaust brake, have you found one more reliable or stout than the other, do you prefer one over the other, and I've read about trans heat built up using retarder....how big a concern is that. Our current coach has a simple exhaust brake, but when working properly it provides much needed confidence in stopping and descending grades.

Re: 2000 - 2003 vintage GV vs same vintage Unicoach

Reply #9 – September 29, 2016, 10:58:02 am

The transmission fluid temperature rises very rapidly when using the retarder, however, after more then six years and 30,000 miles, I stopped using the retarder on a steep downhill only once (fluid temperature was getting too high). This happened when entering Death Valley from the east, where the highway grade was 10 degrees up to the ridge, then 10 degrees down into the valley. Ambient temperature was 100F and downhill is long and twisty, with many very tight turns (20 mph). I was 90% of the way down before shutting off the retarder. I have seen warnings against using this highway with big motorhomes.

Re: 2000 - 2003 vintage GV vs same vintage Unicoach

Reply #10 – September 29, 2016, 11:06:05 am

Quote from: P. Wyatt Sabourin – September 29, 2016, 10:58:02 am

This happened when entering Death Valley from the east, where the highway grade was 10 degrees up to the ridge, then 10 degrees down into the valley. Ambient temperature was 100F and downhill is long and twisty, with many very tight turns (20 mph). I was 90% of the way down before shutting off the retarder. I have seen warnings against using this highway with big motorhomes.

We've talked about that road before, it should be on everyone's "do not attempt" list!

Re: 2000 - 2003 vintage GV vs same vintage Unicoach

Reply #11 – September 29, 2016, 12:02:32 pm

Quote from: P. Wyatt Sabourin – September 29, 2016, 10:58:02 am

The transmission fluid temperature rises very rapidly when using the retarder, however, after more then six years and 30,000 miles, I stopped using the retarder on a steep downhill only once (fluid temperature was getting too high). This happened when entering Death Valley from the east, where the highway grade was 10 degrees up to the ridge, then 10 degrees down into the valley. Ambient temperature was 100F and downhill is long and twisty, with many very tight turns (20 mph). I was 90% of the way down before shutting off the retarder. I have seen warnings against using this highway with big motorhomes.

After 12,000 miles and several mountain passes in the west and on the route to Colorado ,I've never had to stutt the retarder off. The placard by the driver says a max temp of 300 degrees for the trans retarder but I rarely let it get above 200. By keeping the speed down and using the service brakes some, the 6 mile at 6% grade down the northbound Siskiyou pass was no problem at 200 degrees. I think you will have to pry the trans retarder out of my cold dead fingers

Re: 2000 - 2003 vintage GV vs same vintage Unicoach

Reply #12 – September 29, 2016, 12:10:59 pm

Quote from: Bob & Sue – September 29, 2016, 12:02:32 pm

the 6 mile at 6% grade down the northbound Siskiyou pass was no problem at 200 degrees.

That's my ex-neck of the woods, and I've never had an issue pushing either way:easy money. The "Hill" Wyatt is referring to is all different!

Re: 2000 - 2003 vintage GV vs same vintage Unicoach

Reply #13 – September 29, 2016, 12:19:36 pm

360k miles and three FT coach's and no issues in any mountain road with a retarder. The GV is mid entry vs front entry and at 40 feet you lose some storage access curb side though drivers side is full sized. A bit hotter up front and a bit better gas milage and a bit poorer standard tv placement. Benefits is a dedicated passenger area and easy of loading thru the middle instead of the front.

Re: 2000 - 2003 vintage GV vs same vintage Unicoach

Reply #14 – September 29, 2016, 02:34:20 pm

If transmission temperature rises, drop down a gear-- turns the water pump faster, more water flow through transmission heat exchanger.

Re: 2000 - 2003 vintage GV vs same vintage Unicoach

Reply #15 – September 29, 2016, 06:21:26 pm

Quote

I am curious of those of you that have some miles behind the wheel in both a Foretravel with trans retarder and a comparably heavy coach with a Jake or exhaust brake,

I've had both. A compression brake (Jake) is just as effective as a retarder but it doesn't allow for the nice incremental application that the retarder joystick provides. I prefer the retarder but the Jake does a great job.
jor

Re: 2000 - 2003 vintage GV vs same vintage Unicoach

Reply #16 – September 29, 2016, 06:38:50 pm

All good and well, either way. We have a fresh Pac-Brake, and knowing we're approaching a down grade, I'll slow down to get her into a lower gear and hit the bipper. I don't do a thing on the the drop except keep an eye on the trans temp.

Re: 2000 - 2003 vintage GV vs same vintage Unicoach

Reply #17 – September 29, 2016, 06:46:11 pm

Mike,

Transmission temperature with an exhaust brake will NOT go up. Torque converter is still locked up with your Allision MD3060.

Completely different issue with a transmission retarder where you DO have to keep an eye on transmission temperatures.

Re: 2000 - 2003 vintage GV vs same vintage Unicoach

Reply #18 – September 29, 2016, 07:01:09 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 link=msg=247394 date=1475189171 Transmission temperature with an exhaust brake will NOT go up. Torque converter is still locked up with your Allision MD306 [/quote

Great, another gauge to ignore. I love many things: DW, cool dog, old friends, this forum, but the combo we have with the CAT/Allison/Pac-Brake is right up there!

Re: 2000 - 2003 vintage GV vs same vintage Unicoach

Reply #19 – September 29, 2016, 07:51:47 pm

Had an "engine shutdown" light and buzzer come on yesterday on a west bound downhill after coming up from Denver.

VPMS passed 235 on the temp gauge and an engine shutdown light came on. Not trans. Seems wrong

Engine was at 205 or something.

Is it the combo of the trans and the engine temp?

Turned off the retarder and the engine shutdown light and buzzer went off in a very short time. 15 seconds?

Anyone else seen this?

Re: 2000 - 2003 vintage GV vs same vintage Unicoach

Reply #20 – September 30, 2016, 12:34:02 am

"The 2000 GV320 has been at Foretravel for quite a while, and the price has been dropping. I asked about it a while back, and it seems that it may have some problems, but I don't think that anyone here has really done a thorough inspection of it. "

I have ... right before I purchased our 03/GV/295. That 2000 GV320 at FT has been sitting there to my best knowledge more than a year now. I test drove it in October of 2015. It is ok. I would say that it was not abused but was not used with care and love. At that time it was about 90K (asking) I had strongly consider it for $75K with assumption for my piece of mind and liking it would have required $10K. Anyway I am glad i found the 03/GV we own now :-)

This is our second Grand Villa & for us no other brand or style would do.

I have said it this many times, "If FT can produce brand new Grand Villas for about $300-500K they would/should sell like hot cakes" provided they can do justice for them with proper marketing, which is not a strong side of the business.

Re: 2000 - 2003 vintage GV vs same vintage Unicoach

Reply #21 – September 30, 2016, 08:27:29 am

My two cents on Newell and Bluebird. They both are heavier and have considerably more complicated systems therefore more problems as they get older. But all three brands are great coaches when all is running right.

Re: 2000 - 2003 vintage GV vs same vintage Unicoach

Reply #22 – September 30, 2016, 02:22:08 pm

Quote from: Kent Speers – September 30, 2016, 08:27:29 am

My two cents on Newell and Bluebird. They both are heavier and have considerably more complicated systems therefore more problems as they get older. But all three brands are great coaches when all is running right.

I agree with Kent. To add to that - out of the 3, Foretravels have the most storage capacity (i.e. overhead cabinets, basement storage). We looked at Newells and Wanderlodges before deciding on a Foretravel. As fulltimers, storage was one of the most important aspects of a motorhome.

Re: 2000 - 2003 vintage GV vs same vintage Unicoach

Reply #23 – September 30, 2016, 02:55:35 pm

We had a neighbor with a Wanderlodge, who was having electrical problems. He'd been dinking with it for days (I stay away from owners who are swearing all the time), but finally brought a beer over to calm him down. He said, "one thing I hate about these coaches is they're so overbuilt that they seem to have a relay for a relay for a relay!"

Re: 2000 - 2003 vintage GV vs same vintage Unicoach

Reply #24 – October 10, 2016, 10:04:03 am

Quote from: Bob & Sue – September 29, 2016, 12:02:32 pm

After 12,000 miles and several mountain passes in the west and on the route to Colorado ,I've never had to stutt the retarder off. The placard by the driver says a max temp of 300 degrees for the trans retarder but I rarely let it get above 200. By keeping the speed down and using the service brakes some, the 6 mile at 6% grade down the northbound Siskiyou pass was no problem at 200 degrees. I think you will have to pry the trans retarder out of my cold dead fingers

We also completed a west trip including Glacier,CA, AZ,CO. The retarder is the bomb when it comes to driving in the mountains. Yes the tranny temp will rise but it recovers very quickly due to FT excellent cooling systems. It totally removes the "white knuckle" experiences from steep road driving. Just don't forget how it works in reference to the wheels involved . If there is slippery pavement the picture of a FT doing a donut is not pretty.

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