HWH Travel mode front left issue

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HWH Travel mode front left issue

December 12, 2016, 01:45:12 am

Couple of weeks ago, on black Friday coming back from NAC within the first 20 mil HWH Air ride kept coming off of the Travel mode (alarming) I would push the travel mode button, buzzing would stop, travel mode will go back on to green, but after 2 miles or so it will start buzzing again. It was also pulling to left. Front left bags were not getting air during travel mode. While pulled over, I dumped and raised it few times manually, also had it auto level itself few times. Since I was only 15 miles a way from NAC, I decided to drive 4-6 more miles a way and if the travel mode kept having the issue I was going to turn back to NAC and have it looked at but because it was Friday after Thanksgiving, i did not want to have to leave it there for another week. After 3 miles pulling to left stopped, bags were full and it stayed on the travel mode for 220 mil and i made home. After parked for two weeks, yesterday I checked it again and now have the same problem. Front left bags are not filling up with air for travel mode at all now. Bags do fill up if used to level while parked and bags also do fill up with raise function. I was looking at this document on Barry's website HWH Air leveling system explained
Most air manifolds have three basic functions:
1.) Allow air to pass through the manifold to or from the height control valves to control the suspension air bags for traveling.
2.) Direct air to the suspension air bags to raise the vehicle for leveling and other functions.
3.) Exhaust air from the suspension air bags to lower the vehicle for leveling and other functions.
!
The basic air manifold has a left side and a right side. Each side has three valves that do the same thing.
1.) The travel valve is used to isolate the air bags from the height control valves. When traveling, this valve is open to allow the height control valves to function. When leveling, the travel valves are closed, this isolates the air bags from the height control valves.
2.) The raise valve is used to direct air into the air bags. This raises the vehicle.
3.) The lower valve is used to exhaust air from the air bags. This lowers the vehicle.

So if the front left bags are filling up for leveling but not filling up for travel mode, what would i be looking at first, is it the 6 pack? (I have my kit from Chuck) In and around the front 6 pack is all nice and clean so i was hoping not to deal with rebuilding the 6 pack until next year.

Thank you,
AL

Re: HWH Travel mode front left issue

Reply #1 – December 12, 2016, 04:18:22 am

AL, I am no pro at this, but I would check the ride height control valve. Is the whole left side leaning or just the left front corner?

John M

Re: HWH Travel mode front left issue

Reply #2 – December 12, 2016, 07:58:17 am

AL,

I think you have answered your own question. The front height control valve sends air to both front corners simultaneously to control ride height. If it was acting up, you would have both sides in the front riding low (or high).

Since you only have a problem with one corner, and only in travel mode, there is only one valve that can be the culprit: the travel valve on the left side of the front manifold.

The left travel valve plunger could be gummed up and sticking intermittently, or the electrical signal to the solenoid could be intermittent. You could try checking the ground wires on the manifold, and unplug and reseat the plug for that valve.

Or, pull the valve off and take it apart - see what it looks like inside. Since you have the rebuild parts, you're good to go.

If this analysis does not compute, then I'm sure another member will set me straight, and I will appreciate it!

Re: HWH Travel mode front left issue

Reply #3 – December 12, 2016, 08:35:16 am

Al,

If you did drive any distance (even small) with no air in a wheel position's air bags, look carefully at the roof of the wheel well to verify that the tire did not rub through the liner. Would make a nasty water leak if driven in rain with a tear in it.

Re: HWH Travel mode front left issue

Reply #4 – December 12, 2016, 01:41:58 pm

Hi AL,

I also think of the LF travel solenoid is the issue, and more likely of the coil.

I would unplug the plug the measure the continuity of the coil (good = 16 Ohm). Also using the wire marking by Foretravel to get to the right solenoid. It depends on the manifold mounting position, sometime right is left and vice versa.

Thanks,
Michael

Re: HWH Travel mode front left issue

Reply #5 – December 12, 2016, 03:37:40 pm

So for what ever it is, it is working today :-) I think we are going to rebuild the front 6 pack. First we may deal with the travel valve on the left side of the front manifold by itself, we'll see.

"If you did drive any distance (even small) with no air in a wheel position's air bags, look carefully at the roof of the wheel well to verify that the tire did not rub through the liner. Would make a nasty water leak if driven in rain with a tear in it."
No rub at the roof of the front left wheel well. Even when the bag is complete deflated there is a lot of space there in the front wheel well, not possible to rub. This could be a problem in the back side, if it happens there and one drives on it.

Thank you all!

Re: HWH Travel mode front left issue

Reply #6 – December 12, 2016, 07:36:50 pm

FWIW

On our 2002, all of the solenoids on the front and rear six packs are the same. Just pulled and rebuilt them all. Which solenoid wire connected to which solenoid position is what matters.

In my opinion, if you have the time and material to pull both six packs and rebuild/replace the solenoids that is the way to go. FT did a fine job marking the solenoid wires and with their air system schematic the wires can be matched to the solenoid position. It took us a few of hours to remove, rebuild and replace those solenoids. I would mark them using a paint dot method. A Sharpie is not permanent on metal. (Don't ask me how I know.)

Re: HWH Travel mode front left issue

Reply #7 – December 13, 2016, 12:16:49 am

Any pics of Item and whereabouts? Might be something I might need to do at some point and would like to know where the location is and what they look like.

Thanks

Re: HWH Travel mode front left issue

Reply #8 – December 13, 2016, 12:51:50 am

The system for marking wires and air lines when removing the solenoids etc that I found to be simple was to put on the plastic tubing a colored tyrap and a similar colored one on the brass connector on the block. I have a bunch of 4" long thin ones in red, green, yellow etc so enough variables to do 1 block. The wire connectors I did the same way. This was simple and foolproof.
Now I do have to remind anyone with a Tag coach that the 2 solenoids for this are different as mentioned in an earlier posting so although they look the same the orifices for the air are bigger so these cannot go anywhere else but back in the correct location. That is the end of the block adjacent to each other. They are stamped TAG as well.
JohnH

Re: HWH Travel mode front left issue

Reply #9 – December 13, 2016, 05:55:37 am

Quote from: DavidS – December 13, 2016, 12:16:49 am

Any pics of Item and whereabouts? Might be something I might need to do at some point and would like to know where the location is and what they look like.

Brand New Replica HWH Plungers

Re: HWH Travel mode front left issue

Reply #10 – December 13, 2016, 09:32:51 am

How about that colored electrical tape? They have several colors and when you run out of a solid color you use 2 different colors and make a striped marking.

Re: HWH Travel mode front left issue

Reply #11 – December 13, 2016, 09:50:31 am

when we did took out my fuel tank, I bought colored zip ties (small size) assortment at amazon - same idea - when and if you run out of colors, use two as a combination - I bought these 500 for about $12, free shipping with Prime.

Amazon.com: Nylon Cable Ties - 6" - Multi Color (Blue, Red, Green, Yellow,...

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Re: HWH Travel mode front left issue

Reply #12 – December 13, 2016, 11:36:49 am

Those are the Tys I was referring too. The reason I like them is that they are easy to put on, stay there, do not loose color, and unlike tapes etc tough chance of them coming off or rotting. Would be very tough on the 6 pack to put it around the air line fitting on block (no room)
JohnH

Re: HWH Travel mode front left issue

Reply #13 – December 17, 2016, 06:50:49 pm

Any suggestions where can i get a HWH AIR PRESSURE SWITCH Part number SM-2B-20F/WL281 (Brand:NASON) in a hurry?
Thank you,
AL

Re: HWH Travel mode front left issue

Reply #14 – December 18, 2016, 12:02:49 pm

"Any suggestions where can i get a HWH AIR PRESSURE SWITCH Part number SM-2B-20F/WL281 (Brand:NASON) in a hurry?" This is for leveling the back right corner. I'll call HWH in the morning and some local truck part stores to locate this part. This is not that important for now.
My bigger issue is the "Travel mode" for the front left corner. Please let me know what you think.
Yesterday we rebuild the front 6 pack with the rebuild kit from Chuck. Per his great write up, this was fairly easy. However rebuilding the HWH air manifold "the 6 pack" did not solve the "travel mode" problem

When air is completely dumped out, then the travel mode button is pushed, all air bags fill up except the front driver side.
When air is dumped, then auto leveled (all bags are filled), then the travel mode button is pushed all bags go in to travel mode "height" with air in all of them. However the front driver side air bags are slightly softer when pushed with finger compared to other bags, so there is less pressure in the front driver side air bags.
Thank you,
AL

Re: HWH Travel mode front left issue

Reply #15 – December 18, 2016, 12:15:12 pm

Al, I seem to remember Wyatt a short time ago noting the different pressures in front compared to rear bags, it was quite a few pounds difference. I will hunt to see if I can find it.
The leveling valves are fairly common so I would go to a truck store and hope they can get it for you.
JohnH

Sorry it seems it was Pam and Mike-- here is the comment

The pressure in the front airbags when traveling should be about 45 psi while rear airbags require about 75 psi. 50 psi will work just fine as this will cause the front to raise slightly faster than if it was set at 45psi. and might have a little stiffer ride. The rear needs 75psi due to all the weight hanging behind the rear axle.

Pamela & Mike

Re: HWH Travel mode front left issue

Reply #16 – December 18, 2016, 12:24:21 pm

Al,

Going back and reviewing this whole thread from the start, this is where I think you are now. We (the collective) concluded your problems centered around the travel valve for the left front corner. We also theorized the malfunction could be electrical or mechanical. By rebuilding the front 6-pack, you should have eliminated the "mechanical" option, which leaves "electrical" as the likely suspect. Have you done the continuity check suggested in reply #4?

One other possibility just occurred to me. There are 2 check valves at the bottom of the front 6-pack - one on each side. Under certain conditions, these valves prevent air pressure from back-flowing out of the respective air bags. If the left side check valve is partially blocked or held open by some trash, then the air bags in that corner might not stay properly inflated. Could be worth checking...

Do you have the HWH manual for your system? If so, the trouble shooting section would walk you through a check of electrical side of system.

Re: HWH Travel mode front left issue

Reply #17 – December 18, 2016, 01:55:58 pm

Chuck,
"Have you done the continuity check suggested in reply #4?" We have not performed this just yet.
In your picture P1030534.jpg there are 4 items. Bottom 2 items, are they part of the check valves? My 6 pack did not have the washer/washers in your pictures. I have my HWH manual and also fund the troubleshooting document on line.
Thank you,
AL

Re: HWH Travel mode front left issue

Reply #18 – December 18, 2016, 02:01:53 pm

In the right photo, there is a close-up of one of the check valves. White plastic, small black O-ring, + a spring. Held in place by a brass plug with O-ring.

The big washers were used on my solenoid valves as a spacer between the electric coil and the valve body. Not all versions of the solenoid valve assembly use these spacers. They are not critical to the operation of the valve.

Re: HWH Travel mode front left issue

Reply #19 – December 18, 2016, 02:13:05 pm

Look at the HWH schematic for the HWH computer. Find which pin should have 12 volts for the left front travel solenoid when in travel mode. No power, computer. Power, reconnect and pull the connector on the left front travel solenoid and check at the connector for 12 volts while in travel mode. No power, find where you are losing the power between the computer and the solenoid plug. Power, probably a bad solenoid, swap the two front travel solenoids to see if the problem follows the solenoid to the other side.

Re: HWH Travel mode front left issue

Reply #20 – December 19, 2016, 12:25:58 pm

Just ordered HWH AIR PRESSURE SWITCH NASON Part number SM-2B-20F/WL281 HWH part number RAP1720. $85 a piece. WHAT A RIP OFF. Of course i had to get 2 to have one spare.

I think my previous FT U225 Suspension and leveling with Jacks was just fine. Sometimes I miss her. Ironic it is for sale again. Nice couple that purchased it form me never used it.

Anyway I don't want to hijack my own troubleshooting post with my whining. We have not resolved the bigger issue "the traveling mode" yet

Just as soon as we (I hope) solve it and get on with our Christmas trip and get back, I am so putting on some KISS stuff to the HWH air bag suspension and leveling system. Such as bump stops, so when something happens and can not fix a air bag it will ride 50mph without rubbing the tires to get home. Also maybe put a a manual air inlet and a t valve where all bags can be inflated individually by isolating the HWH computer for temporarily. I don't know, I am just not happy right now :-)

Re: HWH Travel mode front left issue

Reply #21 – December 19, 2016, 01:03:12 pm

I don't know if the '03 is any different than my '99 but I can raise the coach manually then pull the travel fuse and go. I made it 2,400 miles when I bought mine to get home.

Re: HWH Travel mode front left issue

Reply #22 – December 20, 2016, 01:01:23 am

@ MichaelU295. Bad Coil for sure that is for the front left Travel mode solenoid. During the troubleshooting we also found one of the dump Coil also not running 100% of the time.
It was a crazy day. Now we wait, for parts to arrive. One from FT and few with spares from HWH.
All I want to be able to get it done on Wednesday and hit the road Thursday for Christmas. All year we wait for the Christmas trip.
Keeping fingers crossed. Did so much at FT and Xtreme in NAC and Industrial power in Fort Worth this year to bring the coach up to date. Just want to enjoy it a bit :-)
Thank you all for your help. I will update ....

Re: HWH Travel mode front left issue

Reply #23 – December 23, 2016, 12:32:16 am

Coils & Air Pressure switches arrived yesterday about 7:38pm. We Installed two new Coils on to front freshly rebuild 6 pack & replaced the leaking 20psi air pressure switch for the right back corner. Performed several tests and calibrated the leveling. We got done by about 10:30pm. Today we drove about 260 miles and arrived at Grandmother's farm for the Christmas, all safe and sound.
Thank you all for your help.
Have a great holiday y'all,
AL

P.S I have 6 spare Coils. All new from HWH. I will keep 3 and sell 3 of them at my cost + shipping. PM if you want one or all.

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