Drilling into ceiling?

Topic: Drilling into ceiling? (Read 1817 times) previous topic - next topic

Drilling into ceiling?

December 22, 2016, 05:51:24 pm

I am ready to mount my projector to the ceiling. I opened a couple of the light bezels in the middle of the ceiling and saw that there is 2x4 construction around the openings. I ran the stud finder across the ceiling and identified a ceiling joist in the best spot for mounting the projector (it's a quick disconnect type, so most of the time only the mount stub will protrude about 4", and I can build some kind of cover to take the curse off when the projector is not mounted.) I have 1/4" lag screws at the ready, but when I run the drill I find I'm hitting metal (looks like aluminum chips) in 2 locations 4" apart at the center of the joist.

Does anyone know if there are ceiling diagrams available anywhere? I would hate to have to make slices through the ceiling carpet to see what's up there in this location...

Any suggestions are welcome!

Re: Drilling into ceiling?

Reply #1 – December 22, 2016, 05:56:59 pm

The ceiling joists are aluminum not wood so you must be going into a joist

Re: Drilling into ceiling?

Reply #2 – December 22, 2016, 06:25:22 pm

If you call FOT, ask for Mike Grimes and give him your build # and ask for a print of the ceiling. That's what I did when I wanted to add a ceiling fan in our bedroom.

Re: Drilling into ceiling?

Reply #3 – December 22, 2016, 06:31:25 pm

So the 2x4 wood frame around the lights must be just to gain depth or something.

I know I am making contact with aluminum, and the stud finder is treating it the same as a wood member, so I will proceed but with hardware for metal rather than wood.

Thank you both - the drawing may yet come in handy - very glad to know one is available!

Re: Drilling into ceiling?

Reply #4 – December 22, 2016, 09:38:54 pm

Seek and you will find; Ask and you will receive:

(I do not know whether these are the ones I created, or someone else on the forum.)

Trent

Re: Drilling into ceiling?

Reply #5 – December 22, 2016, 10:33:41 pm

Quote from: TulsaTrent – December 22, 2016, 09:38:54 pm

Seek and you will find; Ask and you will receive:

(I do not know whether these are the ones I created, or someone else on the forum.)

Trent

Wow! The Forum giveth yet again!
Trent, thank you very much!
Rich

Re: Drilling into ceiling?

Reply #6 – December 22, 2016, 11:15:51 pm

Are you using a projector / screen for HD TV? What is your setup going to be?

Re: Drilling into ceiling?

Reply #7 – December 23, 2016, 01:52:33 pm

So far I have the screen mocked up and the projector mounted.
Everything works, except the screen cannot be retracted till I do a proper install.

Shared album - Richard Thibodeau - Google Photos

I chose a mount that enables the projector to be dismounted quickly and easily but maintains its alignment extremely well. It was $27.

Amazon.com: QualGear PRB-717-WHT Universal Ceiling Mount Projector Accessory:...

The screen for now is a 60" wide cut-to-length white room darkening vinyl window shade. Right now it's held up with cup hooks and picture wire for tweaking placement, etc, but tonight after work I plan to mount it with 2" x 4" stock which I will later enclose in veneer. Sometime in the next couple of weeks I will attach to the surface of the shade a 60" x 35" remnant of high-end projection screen material from a manufacturer where my cousin works. Ultimately I may end up with one of their motorized screens when their RV product is ready for testing. Since I prefer simple mechanical items, if this setup works well I may just keep it as is.

The projector is the best match for my needs. I bought it on Amazon. Here also is a link to its features:

Amazon.com: LG PF1500 Full HD Portable LED Smart TV Home Theater Projector...

LG PF1500G - Smart Portable Projector | LG Electronics In

The setup at this focal length provides an image equivalent in size to a 60" diagonal 16:9 High Definition flat screen TV.
Once I have the high-quality screen material the image quality should match as well. It's definitely fine as is, but it can get better, so...

The projector itself has all the same features as any "smart TV" - meaning it can do lots of really cool stuff. I have tried most of the features and am very happy with it. I was using it to listen to music from my network storage device last night, and it was flawless.

The only thing that gives me pause (and not much at that) is getting wires connected to it. I would rather not go digging into the ceiling. Since it uses both Wifi and Bluetooth, technically the only wire I actually cannot do without is the power cable. I don't mind running the power cable out of the overhead bin immediately beside it (since I have a UPS and networking equipment there anyhow), but if anyone knows of a simple way to get 120 V across the ceiling without tearing it up, I would consider trying it. The projector uses a power adapter, but it takes 19 V DC, so the house DC won't work for it. Not a problem as a practical matter for me since 120 V is nearby (within 3 ft).

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Re: Drilling into ceiling?

Reply #8 – December 23, 2016, 02:11:32 pm

Here are a few screen shots of the projector running now (1:00 PM) with all shades open.

Notice the arrow on the Netflix icon - it uses a remote just like a TV (and you can also use a joystick control on the projector itself that's within sight and reach when it's mounted.)

Projector daytime with shades open - Google Photos

If Scratchy decides to wake up and move, I will pull down the shades in the salon to show what the image is like then...

He accommodated so I added a photo with all shades down except the kitchen window. My phone does no justice to image quality - which is right now about as good as the 60" LED TV I had a year ago. The brightness, contrast and definition of the image is excellent with the shades down - projected onto a window shade...

Re: Drilling into ceiling?

Reply #9 – December 23, 2016, 02:30:33 pm

I used to design so called "Smart Classrooms" at SDSU. I have had my eye out for a full HD LED small form factor projector for some time... somehow I missed this one so thanks for posting the info. Real world question: How noisy is it in use? Having an LED light engine, it seems like it could be as close to silent that it wouldn't matter. What is your experience with it? Also, the Amazon description doesn't give much technical detail about the light engine. Does it have discrete RGB light LEEDsources like the polysilicon LED projectors, or does it use something similar to the colorwheel like most DLP's? I am not fond of the colorwheel technology as the potential for the rainbow effect is there, particularly in fast moving scenes. It doesn't bother some, and in your application (working at the computer while on the treadmill) it may not be relevant.
Interesting thread...
Thanks, Don

Re: Drilling into ceiling?

Reply #10 – December 23, 2016, 02:45:57 pm

Quote from: Don & Tys (AKA acousticart) – December 23, 2016, 02:30:33 pm

I used to design so called "Smart Classrooms" at SDSU. I have had my eye out for a full HD LED small form factor projector for some time... somehow I missed this one so thanks for posting the info. Real world question: How noisy is it in use? Having an LED light engine, it seems like it could be as close to silent that it wouldn't matter. What is your experience with it? Also, the Amazon description doesn't give much technical detail about the light engine. Does it have discrete RGB light LEEDsources like the polysilicon LED projectors, or does it use something similar to the colorwheel like most DLP's? I am not fond of the colorwheel technology as the potential for the rainbow effect is there, particularly in fast moving scenes. It doesn't bother some, and in your application (working at the computer while on the treadmill) it may not be relevant.
Interesting thread...
Thanks, Don

Don,
According to the LG link above, it's "RGB LED" - so no color wheel.

I cannot hear anything from the projector, not even when I am right next to it. That said, I have some significant high-frequency hearing loss, so I'm probably not the best judge of that. On the other hand more than one reviewer on Amazon has remarked about how quiet it is, so I decided to take their word for it!

Hope this helps!
Rich

Re: Drilling into ceiling?

Reply #11 – December 23, 2016, 07:23:10 pm

Rich, with that screen you can watch tv from the bed. lol
John M.

Re: Drilling into ceiling?

Reply #12 – December 24, 2016, 09:19:32 am

John - At that distance the screen is about the same size as my phone - so yeah - I could...

Re: Drilling into ceiling?

Reply #13 – December 03, 2017, 12:55:34 pm

Thanks for this post. It inspired me to mount a six foot screen and projector. Key features are:

- LED projector only draws 100 watts. 1080P High-Definition on a six foot screen. Good for boondocking.
- Sound system uses the original Sony stereo. Used a PAC AUXON dongle to fake out the stereo and input audio from the projector.
- Connected to a Windows Home Theatre system with DVR using the OTA (Over the Air) batwing antenna
- Low-head custom mount. No head-banger.

See photos.

Re: Drilling into ceiling?

Reply #14 – December 03, 2017, 02:39:47 pm

Looks great Tim!

Re: Drilling into ceiling?

Reply #15 – December 03, 2017, 03:18:31 pm

Nice set up Tim. You must be shorter than I am. At 6'-2" I don't have any head room to spare. Our 40" Samsung 4K TV uses 45 watts. Amazing what 4K content you can stream especially from Amazon Prime.

Re: Drilling into ceiling?

Reply #16 – December 05, 2017, 11:31:43 am

Quote from: Roger & Susan in Home2 – December 03, 2017, 03:18:31 pm

Nice set up Tim. You must be shorter than I am. At 6'-2" I don't have any head room to spare. Our 40" Samsung 4K TV uses 45 watts. Amazing what 4K content you can stream especially from Amazon Prime.

Tim's setup is similar to mine. To provide a more complete "picture":
The projector averages more like 70 watts (according to the Victron display) and the image measures about 63". It's a "smart TV", but LG's Amazon app is not compatible, so I use the Panasonic blu-ray player which has Amazon, and so does the Roku, and so does my phone, which puts out some very nice quality video to the projector - so we're covered! I agree - since it offers the ability to buy or rent most titles, Amazon has the broadest offerings.

I spent the summer of '16 in a borrowed Foretravel that had a large flat screen mounted up front. Every time we hit a bump I wondered how many of those it would take till the thing came crashing down. If it ever did...

That's another reason I chose to use a projector - and a roller shade instead of a standard projection screen - the weight and potential crash landing. I'm still using a cheap "proof of concept" cardboard tube roller shade. I have a mechanically superior aluminum tube roller shade that I plan to install. I may also acquire a free world-class screen (one that uses the same image surface is currently on the International Space Station). Its mechanics are essentially those of a powered roller shade.

Whatever I settle on permanently will be getting a cosmetic fix to blend in with the interior, so I'm in no hurry for now.. With the recently installed MCD blackout shades I can enjoy the movie theater experience right at home - and even during the day if it comes to that (although even with the shades open the image is very good in my opinion). The mobile theater has been a hit with friends and family who have experienced it so far. (Or maybe it's just the popcorn with real butter?)

For me at least the power consumption difference isn't an issue. Using a back of the envelope calculation (correct me if I'm wrong):

70 W (for projector) + 10 W (for blu-ray to provide Amazon) + 20 W (for sound system) = 100 W x 1.5 (inverting from DC) = 150 W power consumed from batteries

150 W / 12 V = 12.5 A x 2.5 hrs (movie) = 31.25 Ah

600 Ah (battery capacity) x .30 (prefer not to go below 70% SOC overnight) = 180 Ah available after dark

31.25 Ah / 180 Ah = 17.4% of night-time capacity used watching a movie.

Under marginal conditions, and because I really don't like running my generator, I can reduce the overnight load to very near zero by shutting down the breakers and turning off the fridge. From a purely practical standpoint, I like Paul's choice of a marine fridge. The mfr suggests shutting it down overnight periodically to defrost it. In the morning you reach down in the back corner to empty the defrost collection bottle, then turn it back on. No harm done to the food - the freezer is still freezing, the lower part is still cold (maybe a few degrees warmer than before) and the frost is all gone. A little off track, I know. Show me a path and I'll find a way to leave it... Anyhow, for what it's worth.

Re: Drilling into ceiling?

Reply #17 – December 05, 2017, 12:25:20 pm

Rich, if one of those alum beams is close to the projector why not drill a 1" hole close to cabinet and another close to projector to pull wires, then when done just make up a 2" plastic round disc and glue some of the same "boat hull material" to the discs and then use spray contact glue to base and stick to ceiling to cover holes. I did this when I removed the antenna to cover that hole and no one has ever noticed or made a comment on "what is that?" I got some of the matching material from an upholstry outfit and it is so close to colour and weave it looks OEM.
JohnH

Re: Drilling into ceiling?

Reply #18 – December 05, 2017, 10:15:43 pm

Thanks to RT_Geezer for starting this discussion. We now have two of these home theaters in our U270. One shown above and one in the bedroom. They both use the LG PF-1500 LED projector and this roll-up screen: Amazon.com: Instahibit 72" Diagonal 16:9 Manual Pull Down Projection Screen...

I ended up using small dry-wall type wood screwing to fasten the home-made mount to the ceiling. The Foretravel ceiling uses 1/4 inch plywood and is strong enough to support this light-weight projector.

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Re: Drilling into ceiling?

Reply #19 – December 06, 2017, 12:16:00 am

Wow! This gets pretty close to them Virtual Reality Goggles. Be careful!

The night I fired-up the sub-woofer in our last coach, I scared the spots off my dog when we watched "Saving Private Ryan" cranked-up to around 11. That's a different off-topic post, I suspect.

Tim, you knocked out a great looking project. Have you figured out how to set up that rascal to project outdoors for Movie Night?

Re: Drilling into ceiling?

Reply #20 – December 06, 2017, 11:34:16 am

So this means when entertaining you can hang a screen from your awning and mount the projector on a stand.

Re: Drilling into ceiling?

Reply #21 – December 08, 2017, 12:44:52 am

Quote from: John Haygarth – December 05, 2017, 12:25:20 pm

Rich, if one of those alum beams is close to the projector why not drill a 1" hole close to cabinet and another close to projector to pull wires, then when done just make up a 2" plastic round disc and glue some of the same "boat hull material" to the discs and then use spray contact glue to base and stick to ceiling to cover holes. I did this when I removed the antenna to cover that hole and no one has ever noticed or made a comment on "what is that?" I got some of the matching material from an upholstry outfit and it is so close to colour and weave it looks OEM.
JohnH

John, I think you may have just solved my "looks like hell" problem... I'll post when I get around to implementing your brilliant idea!

Re: Drilling into ceiling?

Reply #22 – December 08, 2017, 12:50:47 am

So, combining John's idea for using the box aluminum frame as a wire conduit (and why not punch that hole inside the cabinet if I can, and the other just above the projector...) and stealing Tim's flush mount idea, the projector can be set right to the ceiling with no wires showing (except as they emerge from the ceiling to plug into the sides of the projector.

I knew if I thought about it long enough I'd come up with a solution...

I meant to say Tim and John would come up with a solution!

Re: Drilling into ceiling?

Reply #23 – December 08, 2017, 10:19:28 am

If wanting to hide wiring on the ceiling what about those runner they use on the floor?

you could probably use Velcro to attach to the ceiling and paint to match your interior

Re: Drilling into ceiling?

Reply #24 – December 08, 2017, 10:35:22 am

Yes, my comment was written to mean inside the cabinet Rich. If you want a picture of what that 'disc" would look like when done let me know and I will take a pic and post. We are currently living in coach now down in Mexico so no big deal.
JohnH

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