More coach bucks

Topic: More coach bucks (Read 9645 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: More coach bucks

Reply #75 – January 17, 2017, 08:40:40 am

David,

Your saga certainly makes interesting reading--and we are hoping it will go smoothly, quickly and inexpensively from this point on. We definitely feel for you!

Re: More coach bucks

Reply #76 – January 17, 2017, 09:06:15 am

Good luck today. We are certainly hoping for the best scenario. Keep us posted.

Re: More coach bucks

Reply #77 – January 17, 2017, 05:41:09 pm

We are definitely learning patience. Of course, the mechanic who is waiting on parts stuck in the ice storm is, too, as is the driver whose truck is waiting those parts.

Exploratory surgery began today. As of noon today, there is a coolant leak on the street side along one cylinder. At that point they didn't know why it was leaking there, only that it was. They no longer are talking about a replacement engine, but at worst an in-frame overhaul, and it may not even go that far. At this point I'm going to let them work and wait for a phone call to let me know exactly what is needed.

Re: More coach bucks

Reply #78 – January 20, 2017, 11:19:34 am

Dave
Any progress on the repairs?
Roland

Re: More coach bucks

Reply #79 – January 20, 2017, 04:55:15 pm

I expect a call from the shop any time now.

Re: More coach bucks

Reply #80 – January 20, 2017, 09:31:21 pm

Quote from: kb0zke – January 20, 2017, 04:55:15 pm

I expect a call from the shop any time now.

You have Way more patience for a answer than I do, I'll tell you that!

Re: More coach bucks

Reply #81 – January 20, 2017, 09:54:18 pm

Quote from: stump – January 20, 2017, 09:31:21 pm

You have Way more patience for a answer than I do, I'll tell you that!

Squeaky wheel gets the grease! I always worry that shops don't really know what's wrong or even how to repair it so come up with a plausible story and then highly recommend a rebuilt/remanufactured engine be installed.

Rebuilding a wet sleeve diesel is much more complex than just pulling the liner out and putting a new one in place. Here is a really excellent video of all the steps necessary to replace the pistons and liners so they will give as good of a life as when new. This is for a 60 series Detroit but the same applies to a 92 series 2 cycle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vWeibfi_Wg

Another good video on diesel piston ring installation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTV9bU1p4kU

Pierce

Re: More coach bucks

Reply #82 – January 21, 2017, 12:27:28 am

Old engine, old soft plugs or freeze plugs depending on where you're from may well likely be a candidate for leaks, also steel galley plugs will corrode faster than cast iron typically. Or maybe bad head gasket that leaks from the water galleys to the exterior. We just have to wait to find out.

Re: More coach bucks

Reply #83 – January 21, 2017, 01:32:01 pm

Just got back from a couple of hours of shopping and checking on the coach. The problem is that the cylinder sleeves have o-rings on the outside that have deteriorated with time and were letting coolant get where it wasn't supposed to. He said it doesn't look like anything was overheated, just old. The plan is to do an in-frame overhaul, to the tune of ~$17,000. One issue that he has been fighting is that nearly every bolt or nut has either fought him over coming loose or has just broken.

For those of you who have similar-age engines, this is something that you may well be looking at sometime down the road. My engine has about 165,000 miles on it, but age, not miles, have taken a toll. Kind of like tires and batteries.

In a related thought, I had asked him to cast his professional eye ever the rest and let me know if there was anything else that was about to fail. The muffler has several holes in it and needs to be replaced. That, at least, ought to be an easy fix.

A question for Brett or anyone who has actually done this: IF a reman engine would be cheaper than doing an in-frame overhaul, are they going to have to remove the rear cap?

Re: More coach bucks

Reply #84 – January 21, 2017, 01:57:24 pm

David,

What is going to be included in the in frame? Mercedes/Detroit Reliabilt parts or aftermarket? Bad O-rings should show coolant in the crankcase. Lots of exchange engines so what shop, etc. What is included in the exchange? Short block? Long block? Injectors? Valve job with new valves? Accessories? Engine should come out the bottom with coach on truck hoist.

$17K is not far from what the coach is worth. You should have ALL the details in an estimate.

Pierce

Re: More coach bucks

Reply #85 – January 21, 2017, 02:09:18 pm

If no anifreeze or water in the oil or oil in the radiator ( milky) in my opinion it is smoke and mirrors, more likely a head gasket or cracked block, freeze plugs ect.
Bill

Re: More coach bucks

Reply #86 – January 21, 2017, 02:10:57 pm

would call other shops in the USA and get prices,just to compare.An engine swap may be a lot less
Labor.

Re: More coach bucks

Reply #87 – January 21, 2017, 02:13:56 pm

David this 6/92 was done in 2010, new rods ,cyl, heads ,mains and rod bearings the whole deal was 12,000.so maybe with inflation 17,000 isn't to bad.also had a rebuilt turbo and blower as well.

Re: More coach bucks

Reply #88 – January 21, 2017, 02:23:18 pm

Detroit-branded parts are apparently not available (I find that hard to believe) but there ARE other brands available. Pistons, cylinder liners, rods, etc. are all included. Price doesn't include a turbo or muffler, though.

I told the service manager to figure both ways (in-frame vs reman) and let me know.

Re: More coach bucks

Reply #89 – January 21, 2017, 03:07:27 pm

Where was the water coming from? Did I miss something.

V6, one of 3 cylinders maybe, I have that engine in mine and am afraid you have the wrong shop working on it.

Re: More coach bucks

Reply #90 – January 21, 2017, 03:14:38 pm

Quote from: kb0zke – January 21, 2017, 02:23:18 pm

Detroit-branded parts are apparently not available (I find that hard to believe) but there ARE other brands available. Pistons, cylinder liners, rods, etc. are all included. Price doesn't include a turbo or muffler, though.

I told the service manager to figure both ways (in-frame vs reman) and let me know.

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Re: More coach bucks

Reply #91 – January 21, 2017, 03:27:55 pm

Quote from: Gerry Vicha – January 21, 2017, 03:07:27 pm

Where was the water coming from? Did I miss something. V6, one of 3 cylinders maybe, I have that engine in mine and am afraid you have the wrong shop working on it.

I smell a rat, I think this guy has the hots for your coach and is trying the old fashioned way of obtaining it thru lies, and the infamous mechanics lein, storage fees etc. He will next offer to buy it from you for a couple of cbs. As others have said o ring would show water in the crankcase.

Re: More coach bucks

Reply #92 – January 21, 2017, 04:36:59 pm

Price what it would cost to upgrade to a newer coach,if you could somehow get 10k for yours,
that's 30k towards a different coach.Unless you can work on these yourself these detroits are
Money pits.Half of the mechanics that say they can work on them are storytellers.

Re: More coach bucks

Reply #93 – January 21, 2017, 04:47:55 pm

David,
It seems to me that you are in the grasp of a serial parts changer, that's the guy that puts on parts till he stumbles on the fix. Had clowns like that work for me (not very long) unfortunately they seem to be the coming thing, if they can't plug in to diagnose the problem then it's into the parts bin and YOUR wallet the Detroit motor is a great motor I've had them in all kinds of applications on both sides of the Atlantic,

Re: More coach bucks

Reply #94 – January 21, 2017, 05:58:21 pm

I agree with Pierce that if the o-rings are gone the coolant would be in the oil. I still haven't heard you say that the engine has been filled up and then checked for leaks and if none are found pressurize the radiator, no more than 25 lbs and recheck.

Re: More coach bucks

Reply #95 – January 21, 2017, 07:46:37 pm

Dave

You should not need an overhaul unless there is coolant in the oil pan. If the seals as leaking the coolant has to go somewhere. Had the problem with my class A truck was discovered with coolant in the pan. That many coach bucks deserves a really really good diagnosis. But as long as you are comfortable with what they are telling you, go for it, it's your money.

Roland

Re: More coach bucks

Reply #96 – January 21, 2017, 07:50:16 pm

When we left today they had the head off of the street side, airbox off, and one sleeve out. I could plainly see and feel the sad shape of the o-rings. Jo Ann asked if we would have to do the other side, too, and I told her yes, we would, because all of the o-rings were installed at the same time, so if one has started to disintegrate the rest won't be far behind.

One of the first things that was done was to add water to the reservoir. As water was added at the top it came out of the catch can at the bottom. The engine was NOT RUNNING at that time.

The entire time I've owned this coach I've had to add oil frequently, and there is always oil on the bottom. I've learned that I can drive for two days (3-500 miles) before it is down close to the "add" mark, and then I can add most of a gallon of oil. I had added oil while we were in Carlsbad, so that it was nearly full. When I checked it in Sonora it was about halfway down. When I checked it at the shop it was somewhat above half.

The reservoir holds just over two gallons of coolant. When I had the problem earlier, I filled the reservoir completely and the overflow tank to the FULL COLD mark. When I checked it at Fort Stockton I just checked and filled the overflow tank. I didn't check the reservoir. Could it have leaked out as we were driving from Hobbs to Fort Stockton, so that there was very little left in the reservoir, but enough that I didn't get any warnings? Then the o-ring finally gave way while we were parked in Sonora, but there wasn't all that much coolant left to go into the oil? I'm just wondering because I have nothing else to do. I'm tired of all of the talking heads on the television.

Re: More coach bucks

Reply #97 – January 21, 2017, 07:53:17 pm

Editing isn't cooperating. Change Hobbs to Carlsbad/Artesia in the last paragraph.

Re: More coach bucks

Reply #98 – January 21, 2017, 08:59:12 pm

You have seen what there is to see. I am not there so not going to question the mechanic but if you are good no to go through with it I would strongly recommend getting at least one other estimate or two. Perhaps you should contact foretravel and see if they know of anyone who has done a 6v92 rebuild in a foretravel.

Re: More coach bucks

Reply #99 – January 21, 2017, 09:37:11 pm

Quote from: kb0zke – January 21, 2017, 07:50:16 pm

The entire time I've owned this coach I've had to add oil frequently, and there is always oil on the bottom. I've learned that I can drive for two days (3-500 miles) before it is down close to the "add" mark, and then I can add most of a gallon of oil. I had added oil while we were in Carlsbad, so that it was nearly full. When I checked it in Sonora it was about halfway down. When I checked it at the shop it was somewhat above half.

The reservoir holds just over two gallons of coolant. When I had the problem earlier, I filled the reservoir completely and the overflow tank to the FULL COLD mark. When I checked it at Fort Stockton I just checked and filled the overflow tank. I didn't check the reservoir. Could it have leaked out as we were driving from Hobbs to Fort Stockton, so that there was very little left in the reservoir, but enough that I didn't get any warnings? Then the o-ring finally gave way while we were parked in Sonora, but there wasn't all that much coolant left to go into the oil?

If the oil did not look like chocolate milkshake I doubt the water made its way to the crankcase. If the o rings were leaking I would think they would continue to leak whatever is in the block regardless of the resivouir level. I thought they found coolant leaking outside the block at one time. I'm dumbfounded. Time to get a real tech on the phone. Where did all the coolant go, certainly not into the crankcase as it would still be there getting picked up from the bottom by your oil pressure pump intake and making a milkshake colored oil concoction. Oil floating on top of the coolant so it can't evaporate.

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