I Hesitate to Ask this Question...

Topic: I Hesitate to Ask this Question... (Read 2704 times) previous topic - next topic

I Hesitate to Ask this Question...

January 27, 2017, 12:40:48 pm

So I'll try and ask the question in a way that won't invite controversy as that is not my intention.

2017 will be our year to try and find our first Foretravel. We've narrowed it down to a series of 34 & 36' years/models that don't have the toilet, vanity and shower on the same side of the coach. But floorplan isn't the underlying question in this post.

On the list of "desireables" are U270/U295 and U320 models. I've pored over beamalarm and brochures on the different models spec & standard features and understand both the basic differences as well as recognizing that original owners could have ordered options on a U270 or U295 that would have added features that would have come standard on U320 so that's not really my question either.

What I'd enjoy hearing are:

1. What features on the model you have (please specify your model) are features you could have done without, e.g., maybe a U320 owner says I could have done without Aquahot, for example.

2. What features on the model you have (please specify your model) are missing that you wish you had, e.g., maybe a U270 owner says they would have liked a safe, for example.

Again, this is not about "good" or "bad"...."better or worse"...its simply our attempt to try and logically decide which features are most valued or most missed once owners have lived with their coach for a while.

For example, the car I drive has a sunroof. It was standard equipment on the model I bought but I think I may have only opened it a dozen times in 15 years...so it was "nice" but I wouldn't have ordered it if it was an option. Or, the same car has heated seats (we're in Florida) which was standard, but I would have ordered air conditioned seats if it had been an option.

OK...so please play

nice and let's see what folks think.

Randy and Karen
Sarasota, FL

Re: I Hesitate to Ask this Question...

Reply #1 – January 27, 2017, 01:05:33 pm

One major difference in the models you mention is engine size. Depending on what you plan to tow, and where you plan to go, you may find that "size" IS important. Most U270/U295 owners who have the "small" 8.3 engine get along fine, but if you pull a big load and spend much time in the mountains, you might be happier with a big block in a U320.

Re: I Hesitate to Ask this Question...

Reply #2 – January 27, 2017, 01:32:06 pm

A 34' is a nice size for getting into small parks. On the other hand, if full-timing is considered, I'd have a 40' Our 36' is a great middle size, and, as long as we don't make it a rolling stationary/hardware store, we're fine.

Re: I Hesitate to Ask this Question...

Reply #3 – January 27, 2017, 01:37:21 pm

Randy, you lose some space in the kitchen with the 34 footer, I like the extra 2 feet + the fact that the fridge is not right up against the sofa.....making a more "open" & spacious feel, from the kitchen to the LR....more counter space is a very good thing, there is never enough. Oh, and the 34 footers are not as easy to find as the 36 footers!

Re: I Hesitate to Ask this Question...

Reply #4 – January 27, 2017, 01:40:11 pm

You won't have issues with 'playing nice' - everyone gets along great here, and you are simply asking for personal opinions! We don't all need to agree.

The hardest decision for us BY FAR during the decision making process was the slide/versus no-slide model decision. We planned to do a lot of impromptu travelling and rely primarily on solar, which we anticipated would leave us on overnight stays in rest areas and wal-marts more often than RV parks. Those lots and rest areas are places where putting your slide out would probably be frowned upon. But we also have a 1 year old, and didn't want to be stuck having a "walkway" instead of the "living space" that a slide provided. In the end, we found a non-slide 1999 where one of the prior owners had the 3rd captain's chair removed, and a thin bookshelf with TV installed against the wall. That provided us with LOTS more space, a real "living room area", and the flexibility of spending evenings bookdocking both discretely and comfortably without a slide. I highly recommend this type of modification to non-slide models. It's been the single best livability feature of our entire coach. Be happy to post pictures if it would help.

But... back to your question:

- We have a U270 34', and you already hit my single greatest "wish list" on the nose. We just began full-timing a few months ago, and it would be great to have a built-in safe for our most valuable items. We will add an aftermarket safe one of these days.

- Although it fills like we have filled every nook and cranny - space has been much less of an issue than I thought full-timing would have. The 34' model has only one passthrough storage bay, while some of the large models have two. You just have to be a little more creative, that's all. We've instituted dozens of small little space saving techniques, and we have room to grow if needed, given a little time and creativity.

- Although we have the hookups, we do not have a washer/dryer. Even as full-timers, we don't miss this option. We have lots of friends and family nearby, and laundromats in a pinch. The added mental security of not worrying about an additional source of potential water leakage outweighs the convenience for us. (Full disclosure: We spend a lot of time not hooked up to water, so we probably wouldn't use it anyway for conservation purposes)

- I wish we had a better laundry basket solution. Some of the later/bigger models have a built-in laundry drop behind the toilet. Ours does not. Wish we had one. In two weeks we plan to cut a tunnel into our storage bay, but using it as a laundry chute finished in 2nd to using it as a way to store/hide the cat litter box.

- You don't want the shower/vanity/toilet on the same side. Is this an aesthetic decision? Ours are on the same side, and from a functionality standpoint, I like it that way. That is primarily because the ceiling fan is in a great location both to clear the smell from "your business" and also remove moisture generated by showers effectively. I'd imagine that a shower and toilet on opposite sides would require a fan location that isn't quite as effective, but maybe someone with that type of floor plan could chime in to let me know that isn't the case.

Re: I Hesitate to Ask this Question...

Reply #5 – January 27, 2017, 01:49:20 pm

Forgot to mention - on our original wish-list was an aqua-hot. But we didn't get one. In retrospect, we haven't missed it one bit. The propane furnace is very effective at keeping the entire underbelly warm, and doesn't cost nearly as much much to run as we anticipated.

And every now and then, I read about how someone on the forum finally got around to removing a frequently malfunctioning aqua-hot. Now that doesn't appear to be the norm - but perhaps with the system age within the coaches you are considering, you should anticipate some aqua hot maintenance dollars if you choose to go that route.

Re: I Hesitate to Ask this Question...

Reply #6 – January 27, 2017, 02:00:14 pm

I have a 1996 U320 with the M11 because I wanted hill climbing performance. I did not even look at a U295/U270 in 2010 when I was looking for a Foretravel.
I did not want Aquahot because I dry camp most of the time and seldom stay in RV parks. I wanted the versatility of being able to use one furnace, or two furnaces, and/or the hot water heater independently. I also understood that the Aquahot unit used far more 12 volt watts then furnaces and a water heater did. I have recently learned that while the Aquahot uses more 12v watts, the difference is not as significant as I thought it was, and most folks love their Aquahot even though it requires annual maintenance.
I wanted a 1996 U320 because I wanted walnut panelling, tamboured cabinet doors, and non-ducted A/C, all of which were replaced with the 1997 model year. With the 1997 model year Foretravel introduced white vinyl wall paper to brighten up the dark interior, ducted air (which lowers the ceiling), and top hinged cabinet doors (like SOBs). The M11 also increased in HP from 400 to 450.

I considered a 36 foot U320, but decided against it because the 36 foot U320 has only 60% of the basement storage of a 40 foot, and does not have the monster pantry across from the refer that the 40 foot has.

Re: I Hesitate to Ask this Question...

Reply #7 – January 27, 2017, 02:06:55 pm

By the way, I am seeking a Lexus IS 350 because it is a rear wheel drive (no FWD for me) and will not buy one without a sun roof, unless it is a convertible.

Re: I Hesitate to Ask this Question...

Reply #8 – January 27, 2017, 02:19:37 pm

Thanks to those who have replied so far but just a point of clarification...length is no longer an issue as we have resolved the space tradeoffs between 34-36 and larger. So too floorplan tradeoffs of the walk-thru vs private bath. And our desireable list has more non-slide models...but does have a few slides included.

You're on the right track with the "other standard vs optional" features of the U270/295/320. Our desirable coach list has all three models with the length/floorplan alternatives we're seeking. Its trying to better understand the model #/feature trade-offs...like aquahot vs furnaces. while we'd gladly buy a U320 with our length/bath configuration due to "all the goodies" and the bigger engine. Its trying to understand if we'd be just as happy with the U270/U295 features that delete some of the other U320 features.

So keep the comments coming. Bottom line is that we will buy the best coach we can buy with length/floorplan. Its more about resolving the "nice but necessary" things we might not get on a non-U320.

Thanks

Randy

Re: I Hesitate to Ask this Question...

Reply #9 – January 27, 2017, 02:21:16 pm

Wyatt - can you tell me whether you see other advantages of ducted vs non-ducted AC....other than ceiling height?

Re: I Hesitate to Ask this Question...

Reply #10 – January 27, 2017, 02:23:45 pm

The slide no-slide was a not a concern for me because I did not want the extra complication with a slide. Foretravel started slide models in 1999 or 2000, and (most important) a motorhome with a single slide sells for $40,000 more (new or used). The market price of a non-slide 40 foot 2000 Foretravel will be $50k or $60k, while the slide model will be $90k or $1000k. The reason for this unusual pricing is simple: the vast majority of buyers want a slide, so you almost have to give away a non-slide motorhome.

Re: I Hesitate to Ask this Question...

Reply #11 – January 27, 2017, 02:26:05 pm

We started looking for a 34' thinking we could get into more places. Our 36' gets into everywhere we have wanted to go. The biggest reason for us to change to 36' was engine size. Towing a car was a given and I did not want to be the slowest thing up the hill. No way to make a 300 or 350 HP more so the U320 ISM11 at 450 HP in a 36' was what we focused on. It also has a bigger more robust transmission. We were looking at a 2001 or 2002 mostly based on our target price point. Slide or no slide got a lot of discussion and while we know many with no slide coaches we are glad we chose the single slide. We did not like the BR slide in the 2002's. It changes the BR configuration (less room on the drivers side between the bed and the wall) and it changes side access to the engine as well. The 2002 have a slide system that was only used in that year. It may have been more troublesome that the 2001 and it definitely uses more interior space. We are on the original bladder after 16+ years. We think we have at least 400 cycles on the slide in 6 years with no faults. We did not want a dinette booth. The J shaped dinette has worked well for us. The position of the table (front to back) is easy to change if you need too. We added drawers under the J dinette for more storage. At table and chairs might have been OK but they were not OEM. The bathroom works fine for us. The double closet with doors is nice. We did not want a toilet in a small room. The toilet in the 36' at an angle is snug but ok. The 40' bathroom is roomier.

The AquaHot is wonderful. Flawless with normal operation and maintenance. "Annual" maintenance can be every two years or more with regular use. Easy to do that service yourself. We have had LP gas furnaces before and they do work well. For us the AH is a big plus.

There is so much of this micro detail that you only learn with time and experience. Look at as many coaches as you can. Take pictures. Wonder and ask why. Find the best coach you can that fits as many of your needs as possible in your price range and buy it. We looked at several. A blue interior was not us but it could be changed. The one we bought after looking some more was so much better for our tastes and a much better coach overall.

Ducted AC lets either AC cool the length of the coach, I am 6-2 and have no headroom issues. The low point in our coach is the sliding door track trim.

Top mounted hinges were used for a couple years after the tambour doors. Hidden European style hinges in our 2001.

Earlier AH heat exchanger fans were less efficient. By 2001 they were much more efficient.

Re: I Hesitate to Ask this Question...

Reply #12 – January 27, 2017, 02:33:16 pm

The non-ducted A/C motorhome allows replacing an A/C unit with a fan (maxair or Fantastic) because all RV roof A/C units are mounted over a 14 inch by 14 inch hole in the roof. I plan to replace the front A/C unit with a fan to increase the ceiling height and the light coming in. I seldom use the A/C units because I summer in Canada and move around in the winter.

Re: I Hesitate to Ask this Question...

Reply #13 – January 27, 2017, 02:46:55 pm

U-270's came standard with Honey Oak Cabinets, all others mahogany with some Cherry

Re: I Hesitate to Ask this Question...

Reply #14 – January 27, 2017, 02:57:25 pm

I have had both a 270 34 foot and two 320s one 34 and the other 42. I will say that the Aquahot is the one thing I would miss. It is one of the best things to have. It is quiet and works great when driving.

Re: I Hesitate to Ask this Question...

Reply #15 – January 27, 2017, 03:02:19 pm

Quote from: John S – January 27, 2017, 02:57:25 pm

I have had both a 270 34 foot and two 320s one 34 and the other 42. I will say that the Aquahot is the one thing I would miss. It is one of the best things to have. It is quiet and works great when driving.

I wasn't aware there was a 34' U320. What year?

Re: I Hesitate to Ask this Question...

Reply #16 – January 27, 2017, 03:09:15 pm

I think Tim meant Walnut not Mahogony and John had a 36' and a 42' U320.

Re: I Hesitate to Ask this Question...

Reply #17 – January 27, 2017, 03:16:30 pm

We wanted a Grand Villa specifically so we found the nicest 36' ft that we could, had it inspected (Thank you Gary Bouland very much) and haven't looked back.

Although the diesel geny works flawlessly, I might have opted for the propane geny instead. Diesel fumes verses propane ( no fumes ). Propane owners may chime in and disagree but I drove a propane truck for years and no smell.

Re: I Hesitate to Ask this Question...

Reply #18 – January 27, 2017, 03:23:00 pm

Quote from: Miz Dani – January 27, 2017, 01:37:21 pm

Randy, you lose some space in the kitchen with the 34 footer, I like the extra 2 feet

....more counter space is a very good thing, there is never enough.

I second this. In our 34', we had to get a creative and put a drying rack on the underside of the sink cover, as well as wall holders for the sink covers when we need sink access because the majority of the the non-stove, non-sink counter space is "tucked in the corner" between the two. Even after space-saving, it took some getting used to. We have to use the table as counter-top space during dinner food preps.

Re: I Hesitate to Ask this Question...

Reply #19 – January 27, 2017, 03:24:17 pm

Quote from: Bob & Sue – January 27, 2017, 03:16:30 pm

I might have opted for the propane geny instead. Diesel fumes verses propane ( no fumes ).

Yes, propane.....three coaches, all prop, no smell, clean-burning, zero problems.

Our neighbor with his Blue Bird has AH, I can smell it every morning, and I know he's put a few CBs into it over the years.

Re: I Hesitate to Ask this Question...

Reply #20 – January 27, 2017, 03:28:54 pm

Quote from: Bob & Sue – January 27, 2017, 03:16:30 pm

Although the diesel geny works flawlessly, I might have opted for the propane geny instead. Diesel fumes verses propane ( no fumes ). Propane owners may chime in and disagree but I drove a propane truck for years and no smell.

My understanding is that propane generators are more expensive to buy, more expensive to run fuel-wise, and have a shorter lifespan (in hours) than equivalent diesel counterparts. But they are much more forgiving in colder temps, more forgiving when left sit for long periods, and more forgiving under light loads. So if you don't plan to use the generator often, or are going to put it in storage without "maintenance trips" for 7 months a year, a propane generator may be a good choice.

Re: I Hesitate to Ask this Question...

Reply #21 – January 27, 2017, 03:30:24 pm

Yes, Duh. Walnut.

Had no slides and propane, fine if you never had Aquahot or slide you won't miss it, if you have, you will.

Re: I Hesitate to Ask this Question...

Reply #22 – January 27, 2017, 03:38:54 pm

You might be correct about the diesel geny longevity. While at Oregon Motorcoach for service they spoke of an owner that came in to have a diesel generator replaced. Unit had 40,000 hours on it but still operating. Owner just thought it was time to replace it. That could be 1,600,000 miles at 40h average. Wow.

Re: I Hesitate to Ask this Question...

Reply #23 – January 27, 2017, 04:08:14 pm

Quote from: Bob & Sue – January 27, 2017, 03:38:54 pm

Unit had 40,000 hours on it

Diesel gen-sets for coaches have not been around that long. Our Onan propane gen is original with 6K. How could you wrack-up 40k? Sounds like a bad Hobbs meter or someone who needs glasses.

Re: I Hesitate to Ask this Question...

Reply #24 – January 27, 2017, 04:08:42 pm

One thing I definitely like on the 295 vs the 270 is the bus style, pop-up outside bay doors. I have a couple of standard hinged doors (under the slide) and they are the most annoying things to work with. Luckily those bays seldom need attention, but when they do, it's frustrating.

Also, something to think about in deciding whether certain options are worth the cost, is to figure out if it will be something you will use on every trip. So, a washer/dryer or a safe, for example, probably wouldn't be needed on a weekend, or even one-week trip. But for full-timers, that's something that may be well used.

For me, since I don't full-time, not having an aqua-hot system is not a deal breaker. I'm pretty sure if I had one, I would like it, but in general, most trips I take, the heater is never even fired up. So it would just be sitting idle, until it was time for hot water for showers.

My coach came with most all of the 320 standard features, because it was a show coach, but it doesn't have the big motor or transmission (or aqua-hot.) In the Colorado mountains, it would be nice to have all three of those upgrades, but for what I do for 90-95% of the trips, the 295 set-up is perfect.

I've seldom used the Bose 321 and have never used the safe, but I have used the heat function of the heat pump AC. I like the LP drawer, I love the joey bed, water and shoreline reels, zip dee window awnings, and the electric sun visors (all of which are options on the 270.)

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