Headlights: Attaining Enlightenment

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Headlights: Attaining Enlightenment

February 02, 2017, 08:54:53 pm

Finally got around to swapping out my stock headlight bulbs to these

YITA - 120W 12000LM LED Headlight Kit 9004 HB1 High/Low beams White 6000K bulbs

Strictly speaking these aren't legal, but on our coaches with their low headlights, I'll take the chance.
They aren't straight plug n'play. The collar that secures the bulb into the socket won't fit around the cooling fan. I had to cut the collar down, split it, & stretch it over the bulb. Once in place it's secured with a hose clamp. Seems solid enough. Time will tell.
Total cost of the 'conversion' was less than $40. Ya gotta love that!!
I plan to get another set to do the inner lights. Also plan to wire in the low beams on the inners, which are high beam only right now.
Final analysis "These suckers are Bright!" No more driving by braille.
"I can see the light!"

Cheers Ric

Re: Headlights: Attaining Enlightenment

Reply #1 – February 02, 2017, 10:03:56 pm

Awesome, yes they are bright....Thanks for sharing. I plan to do ours when I get home.
Cheers

Re: Headlights: Attaining Enlightenment

Reply #2 – February 02, 2017, 10:47:49 pm

Quote from: Turtle – February 02, 2017, 08:54:53 pm

I plan to get another set to do the inner lights.

Ric,

Great job, writeup, and pictues; I am definitely planning to get a pair for mine.

As bright as these are, why do you want to add more of them? I am not sure what the wattage is on the OEM headlights, but I think I recall 45 watts each. These two new ones are 60 watts each, 120 watts for the pair. I think the formula for converting from watts to amps is divide the watts by the voltage. In this case, that would be 10 amps. If you added another set, that would be 20 amps you are drawing for the headlights, plus all of the other RV exterior lighting.

We know that the OEM headlights really suck the battery down big time. One of the reasons we switch to LEDs is to lower the power requirements. In this case, we are increasing the power drain, but are reaping a huge increase in visibility. The important thing, as our long-time guru used to say, DWMYH.

It looks like the light output is 360 degrees around the main axis. So the reflector is a very necessary component to achieving the great output.

Thanks for blazing a trail for the rest of us,

Trent

Re: Headlights: Attaining Enlightenment

Reply #3 – February 03, 2017, 12:18:15 am

Quote from: Turtle – February 02, 2017, 08:54:53 pm

Strictly speaking these aren't legal

Can you explain why?

Re: Headlights: Attaining Enlightenment

Reply #4 – February 03, 2017, 02:03:37 am

Are looking at these,, kid here in town has done several GM pickups with LED's,,

Re: Headlights: Attaining Enlightenment

Reply #5 – February 03, 2017, 09:59:50 am

Quote from: Blinded04 – February 03, 2017, 12:18:15 am

Can you explain why?

Most likely not "approved" by DOT or SAE or some other 3-letter federal agency, and therefore not legal in USA.

Re: Headlights: Attaining Enlightenment

Reply #6 – February 03, 2017, 10:22:45 am

"We know that the OEM headlights really suck the battery down big time. One of the reasons we switch to LEDs is to lower the power requirements. In this case, we are increasing the power drain, but are reaping a huge increase in visibility. The important thing, as our long-time guru used to say, DWMYH."

If AMP draw is a worry, one could add relays to the headlights. When I was a FT tech, I did that when I tied the inner and outer headlights together, per customers request.Super easy to do. BTW, these bulbs will leave a spot in your sight, if you just glance at one. It's worse then a welder.They are super bright, but no heat to plastic surround due to the heat sink and small fans.

FYI, I have done a test on a 1157 bulb, it was 1.7 amp draw. A LED version, was .3 of a amp.And much brighter.

Yes, they are not DOT approved, but I see tons of cars running them.

Re: Headlights: Attaining Enlightenment

Reply #7 – February 03, 2017, 11:20:59 am

Hi James
Chuck has it right, these aren't "approved". But like Chris said, I see alot of cars running similar.
I'll ask forgiveness later

As for why add more, there is a shadow hole right about center. But I'll try these for awhile first.
You're right it might be too much amp draw, if run thru the switch. Might have to add relays as well.

The adventure continues. Cheers Ric

Re: Headlights: Attaining Enlightenment

Reply #8 – February 03, 2017, 11:34:54 am

We aren't supposed to get into political discussions about government policy, but I will say IMHO USA lighting regs are archaic.

Re: Headlights: Attaining Enlightenment

Reply #9 – February 03, 2017, 11:43:19 am

+one! When it comes to safety, I will defer to my own judgement. Seeing better when driving at night overrides the fear of getting cited for equipment infringement, IMHO. Of course, part of being safe is to not blind oncoming traffic, so adjustment and testing is crucial for the best outcome. Also, the possibility of being cited is reduced if the results are not calling undo attention to themselves.
Don

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – February 03, 2017, 11:34:54 am

We aren't supposed to get into political discussions about government policy, but I will say IMHO USA lighting regs are archaic.

Re: Headlights: Attaining Enlightenment

Reply #10 – February 03, 2017, 12:46:41 pm

I did my headlight upgrade for about 2,000 on my 1995 320SE. I believe that doing an upgrade legally is more expensive, however, creating a danger for others on the road by blinding them with cheap solutions morally was reason enough.

Re: Headlights: Attaining Enlightenment

Reply #11 – February 03, 2017, 12:53:30 pm

Have been using either hid or led replacements for years, have found the led wattage claims, are basically the equivalent of what a incandescent bulb would put out. In almost every case, the actual amperage draw of the led bulb is far less that the incandescent bulb it replaces. Added advantage of led, is that they produce full brightness at lower voltages.

Re: Headlights: Attaining Enlightenment

Reply #12 – February 03, 2017, 01:49:59 pm

For the record, Xtreme did our headlight upgrade at a cost that was considerably more than $2k... I don't like cheesy solutions as most anybody who has seen my mods and upgrades would likely attest. However, just because someone is pursuing alternate solutions does not mean that the outcome isn't possibly better than the so called professional legally sanctioned method. It depends on your skill set, how high your standards are, and how concienciously applied. When I build something, I never do it to code since I don't see why I should lower my standards

. That said, if I don't feel motivated to expand my skill set, I have no problem with paying for competence... when I can find it. Xtreme being one of the too few professional operations who fit that bill. Some owners should definitely not tackle a project like this, one just has to hope that anybody contemplating such is aware of their limitations.
Don

Quote from: cubesphere – February 03, 2017, 12:46:41 pm

I did my headlight upgrade for about 2,000 on my 1995 320SE. I believe that doing an upgrade legally is more expensive, however, creating a danger for others on the road by blinding them with cheap solutions morally was reason enough.

Re: Headlights: Attaining Enlightenment

Reply #13 – February 03, 2017, 03:12:43 pm

Quote from: Don & Tys (AKA acousticart) – February 03, 2017, 01:49:59 pm

For the record, Xtreme did our headlight upgrade at a cost that was considerably more than $2k... I don't like cheesy solutions as most anybody who has seen my mods and upgrades would likely attest. However, just because someone is pursuing alternate solutions does not mean that the outcome isn't possibly better than the so called professional legally sanctioned method. It depends on your skill set, how high your standards are, and how concienciously applied. When I build something, I never do it to code since I don't see why I should lower my standards . That said, if I don't feel motivated to expand my skill set, I have no problem with paying for competence... when I can find it. Xtreme being one of the too few professional operations who fit that bill. Some owners should definitely not tackle a project like this, one just has to hope that anybody contemplating such is aware of their limitations.
Don

Think many variables to this. Some reflectors lend themselves to led replacement, some do not. The design of the led [cobb, single, or multiple diodes] also contribute to the effectiveness of the light. I know that on my 295, tried 3 different led replacements before I found one that gave a good focused beam that did not shine too high and bother other drivers.

Re: Headlights: Attaining Enlightenment

Reply #14 – February 03, 2017, 03:26:38 pm

Jim C
Do you have the info on which LEDs you ended up with. I would love to take advantage of your trial and error experience, if you don't mind

Re: Headlights: Attaining Enlightenment

Reply #15 – February 03, 2017, 03:29:12 pm

Quote from: Bob & Sue – February 03, 2017, 03:26:38 pm

Jim C
Do you have the info on which LEDs you ended up with. I would love to take advantage of your trial and error experience, if you don't mind

pm sent.

Re: Headlights: Attaining Enlightenment

Reply #16 – February 03, 2017, 04:40:48 pm

Don,

When researching lighting upgrades, many of the ideas came from this site and really am thankful for that. I hope no one was offended and I would have been happy spending less money than I did doing all the work myself with a friend. I went to Daniel Stern for lighting recommendations, where I learned some lighting is not as good as people think which does in fact cause problems with safety and I was only pointing out this for the benefit of others. I am quite sure that most people here have skills way beyond mine and am thankful for that input. Legal and lawful are two different things, only ethical things concern me in the real world.

Rob

Re: Headlights: Attaining Enlightenment

Reply #17 – February 03, 2017, 05:39:55 pm

Now, did FT put a switch in so you could run the fogs without the mains? With the Airstream, going through the I-5 "fog belt" into Sacramento, we'd run no mains; Hella fogs/ markers and use (carefully) our roof spotlight. Had one yellow on the roadside and white on curbside. Perfect, never a Cop problem!

Re: Headlights: Attaining Enlightenment

Reply #18 – February 03, 2017, 08:38:45 pm

Hi All
Just to clarify, I do plan to have the headlights professionally re-aligned when I get back to civilization.

I hate it when some idiot doesn't lower his brights.

That said, my main concern was our safety when driving at night, which I try hard not to do. After this last trip down out of Oregon in the snow, at night (because of the snow), I had to try something immediately. This was the most expedient solution.
Cheers Ric

Re: Headlights: Attaining Enlightenment

Reply #19 – February 07, 2017, 12:24:24 pm

I'm currently working to replace my headlights with LED bulbs. I got these:
1 Set 120W 12000LM Cree Chips Car LED Headlight Kit Bulb Fog Light H4 H7 H8...

They're probably essentially all the same though...

Although I got the 9004 version the plugs were very flimsy and did not establish a nice and reliable (!) contact. So I cut off the 9004 connectors on both ends and used regular automotive crimp'n'plug connectors. When I installed them I noticed something very special about these LED bulbs and that's probably something to really watch out for when it comes to legal questions:

With all three wires connected the LED would always be in hi-beam mode with all four LED chips illuminated. It would definitely blind oncoming traffic. When I disconnected the hi-beam wire it went to lo-beam mode. I figured that the Foretravel wiring seems to pull the hi-beam wire to either 12V or ground (now that I think of it, probably the "ground" I measure there are the other bulbs). Anyway as some car manufactures switch the ground instead of the positive, the LED manufacturer probably just made it work both ways. For now I'll just leave the hi-beam wires disconnected. Probably a diode could help, but I have no idea where to get a single diode over here in Quartzsite

With regards to current consumption I measured 3.6A on the old conventional bulbs. The new LEDs draw 1.6A in lo-beam mode. The current doubles in hi-beam as they illuminate all four LED chips instead of just two.

Here's a photo to compare the light output. LED on driver side, conventional bulb on passenger side.

cheers,
Matt

Re: Headlights: Attaining Enlightenment

Reply #20 – February 07, 2017, 02:45:27 pm

Wow the difference is pretty incredible.

I think it's interesting that many people need to modify the connection hardware in order to use a bulb that they feel is satisfactory. Has anyone used a direct plug-and-play alternative that they are happy with?

Re: Headlights: Attaining Enlightenment

Reply #21 – February 07, 2017, 03:01:01 pm

I'm not seeing a lot of GV owners comments about switching to LED. Are there alternatives for the early 90s GV owners.

Re: Headlights: Attaining Enlightenment

Reply #22 – February 07, 2017, 08:30:58 pm

Hi Matt
I experienced about the same increase in visibility on low beam, but still had high beam. Inner lights are still stock bulbs, wired high beam only. I'm going to try this out for awhile before changing out the inners. From the looks of them the ones you chose probably fit better, because of the round fan body. Did the locking collar fit over the fan?
James, with the exception of the locking collar these were plug n' play.
Cheers Ric

Re: Headlights: Attaining Enlightenment

Reply #23 – February 07, 2017, 09:26:35 pm

Well, I think part of the big difference in brightness is also the age of my original bulbs. They're probably 10 years or even older.

I really don't think you'll ever find a real "plug and pray" solution as the LEDs usually need their own controller to work. Here're two photos showing the way they're installed. Note the small black controller box...

I would have loved to use better connectors as well as move the controller inside and extend the LED cables, but my resources are somewhat limited...

some isolating tape to prettify it:

Re: Headlights: Attaining Enlightenment

Reply #24 – February 07, 2017, 09:31:01 pm

Quote from: Turtle – February 07, 2017, 08:30:58 pm

Hi Matt
I experienced about the same increase in visibility on low beam, but still had high beam. Inner lights are still stock bulbs, wired high beam only. I'm going to try this out for awhile before changing out the inners. From the looks of them the ones you chose probably fit better, because of the round fan body. Did the locking collar fit over the fan?
James, with the exception of the locking collar these were plug n' play.
Cheers Ric

hm interesting, if you take them out of the housing, are all four LEDs lit or just two of them on lo-beam?

They did fit nicely inside the collar. The only problem I have is that the plastic of the collar rings is so brittle, some of the small inner ring parts fell out when I took out the original bulbs... Would be nice if I could get such collar rings in spare, does anyone have an idea of where to get non-brittle ones? I figure they're Ford Bronco headlights, but don't think they're built anymore

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