Detroit DDEC II People

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Detroit DDEC II People

February 05, 2017, 08:48:58 am

Ran across this today
Movin' Out - DDEC II ECMs Part 1: Why DDEC II ECM Support Is Hard To Find

Caterpillar, Cummins and Detroit Diesel ECM programming repair and testing

Re: Detroit DDEC II People

Reply #1 – February 05, 2017, 10:49:55 am

Good to know. Now I have to look for a used one to put below with all the other spares. I think the DDEC II is the only one to run fuel through it to cool it. Might pay to keep the tank pretty full to keep fuel temp down. My ProLink 9000 measures fuel temp. Guess there is a reason.

Thanks for the heads up.

Pierce

Re: Detroit DDEC II People

Reply #2 – February 05, 2017, 11:29:41 am

I noticed DDEC II exchange rebuild ECUs for about $500 here: DDEC II | eBay

Also inframe overhaul kits immediately available for the 6V-92TA from several vendors. Less than $2K for everything. Detroit Diesel 6V92 Engine Overhaul Kit 6V92 Inframe Engine Overhaul Kit | eBay Photo may be a bit misleading as no valves are listed in the description below and no injectors. Good price for the injectors is around $400/ea. Head work plus new valves would be an additional minimum of $1000 at a good machine shop. New valves, guides, springs, injection cups, keepers are $60/cylinder Detroit Diesel DT 92 Series Valve Overhaul Kits New 4 Valve *Single Cylinder

I expect the "hard to find" kits are a bit of a sales ploy that shops use to gain customer trust and fear of going to another shop. Now that the DDEC II is used, there is no longer a rack to run and a decent DIY owner can do an inframe as it does not require a lot of special tools, just deck height for the cylinders. Several videos on how to do this at YouTube.

Pierce

Re: Detroit DDEC II People

Reply #3 – February 05, 2017, 02:23:04 pm

A guy on a small boat forum I frequent just rebuilt his 12v71. He bought some aftermarket parts, and had to buy other ones because A)parts were missing and B)multiple where not machined correctly or not within tolerance.

It is getting harder and harder to find decent parts. Don't believe me, that's fine. But check around with people that do this for a living. Friend-of-a-friend is a mechanic that installed a brand new (not reman) DD Head from the dealer. Started it up and owner called him back--water in oil. Head was cracked...BRAND NEW! The mechanic got a new head under warranty for free, but detroit wouldn't help him at all on the labor (he had to eat it). Now he doesn't work on detroits.

Re: Detroit DDEC II People

Reply #4 – February 17, 2017, 08:19:02 pm

Lots of 71s, 92s still out there in the marine world. I have no doubt the world market is flooded with "will fit" parts. But if one was to look hard enough guality DDA parts can be had. It's more a of a how much do you want to pay issue .Not much different than
The old 855" Cummings, and the 1693 (343) Cats 🐱.

Re: Detroit DDEC II People

Reply #5 – February 18, 2017, 02:43:47 am

Goodness, I can see Pierce rolling into Q next year pulling a trailer

with all the spare parts ! ! !

Carter-

Re: Detroit DDEC II People

Reply #6 – February 18, 2017, 10:26:58 am

Quote from: Texas Guy – February 18, 2017, 02:43:47 am

Goodness, I can see Pierce rolling into Q next year pulling a trailer
with all the spare parts ! ! !
Carter-

Yes, after three coast to coast trips, we carry at least three complete piston/cylinder sets, an extra crankshaft or two and tie an extra cylinder head to the roof of the toad. Had to go up a load range on the toad's tires to handle all the extra weight!

I saw these on ebay but can't believe the ads. Think it's just an alternate truth. detroit 92 cylinder kits | eBay

Pierce

Re: Detroit DDEC II People

Reply #7 – February 18, 2017, 10:49:06 am

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – February 18, 2017, 10:26:58 am

Yes, after three coast to coast trips, we carry at least three complete piston/cylinder sets, an extra crankshaft or two and tie an extra cylinder head to the roof of the toad. Had to go up a load range on the toad's tires to handle all the extra weight!

I saw these on ebay but can't believe the ads. Think it's just an alternate truth. detroit 92 cylinder kits | eBay

Pierce

They are for 1 cyl. the Clevite one is good quality.

Re: Detroit DDEC II People

Reply #8 – February 18, 2017, 11:48:20 am

Quote from: craneman – February 18, 2017, 10:49:06 am

They are for 1 cyl. the Clevite one is good quality.

Craneman,

Yes, since I was a kid, Clevite was at the top of racing products as well as engine replacement parts.

I used to use MC forged pistons in a lot of Porsche pushrod engines. 10 1/2 to 1 and an easy way to get more HP. They were nice and shiny but were like snowflakes, everyone was different. You could visually see the difference in distance from the piston crown to the compression ring land. Naturally, the weight was also much different and took a lot of work to remove enough material so they all weighed the same.

Craneman? Any relation to Crane Camshafts? Crane Cams | Automotive Home Page

Pierce

Re: Detroit DDEC II People

Reply #9 – February 18, 2017, 11:52:06 am

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – February 18, 2017, 11:48:20 am

Craneman,

Yes, since I was a kid, Clevite was at the top of racing products as well as engine replacement parts.

I used to use MC forged pistons in a lot of Porsche pushrod engines. 10 1/2 to 1 and an easy way to get more HP. They were nice and shiny but were like snowflakes, everyone was different. You could visually see the difference in distance from the piston crown to the compression ring land. Naturally, the weight was also much different and took a lot of work to remove enough material so they all weighed the same.

Craneman? Any relation to Crane Camshafts? Crane Cams | Automotive Home Page

Pierce

No, the name is related to my occupation, as a crane owner operator. I personally use Competition Cams for my race car, but have used a lot of Crane cams in street vehicles.

Re: Detroit DDEC II People

Reply #10 – February 18, 2017, 01:26:08 pm

Pierce- left or right cylinder head? But wait a minute, being that it has 4 exhaust valves and no intake it would be theoretically possible, to make perfectly symmetrical and identical, but I would guess not. Enlighten me.

Re: Detroit DDEC II People

Reply #11 – February 18, 2017, 01:29:58 pm

v- heads are symmetrical normally, they fit either side.

Re: Detroit DDEC II People

Reply #12 – February 18, 2017, 01:56:53 pm

Take offs may have fuel ports/Jake wiring, etc blocked off or in a different location but should be the same for either side. 12V-92s will have four 6V-92 heads, the 16V-92 versions use four 8V-92 heads. They share a lot of parts with the 71 series like engine bearings.

So, if you see one advertised as "left" or "right" side, a few minutes work make them work on either side. Note, Jake fitted heads will require a taller valve cover. Unfortunately, it's not the nice cover with Detroit embossed in big letters. Jake can be added to any head.

Electronic 2 cycle Detroits (Foretravels) will not have a "rack", just electronic computer (expensive) injectors. Each 92 series will have two camshafts (one lobe for each cylinder is for the pump/injector unit and the engine can rotate in either direction with a simple gear change (and starter). This is for marine applications where two engines are fitted. Your ProLink 9000 reads out the direction of rotation.

Pierce

Re: Detroit DDEC II People

Reply #13 – February 18, 2017, 02:12:39 pm

This thing reeks of German design, was it a spoils of war, gifted to GM? Sounds like an ideal power plant for a war machine. Dr Ferdinand maybe? IDK.

Re: Detroit DDEC II People

Reply #14 – February 18, 2017, 02:18:17 pm

All U.S. submarines in WWII had 2 cycle diesels, either a GM like our coaches or a super innovative twin crankshaft design that Fairbanks Morse came up with. No cylinder head or valves!!! Cummins came out with their famous diesel also in the late 1930's.

Pierce

Re: Detroit DDEC II People

Reply #15 – February 18, 2017, 02:46:25 pm

So was the Fairbanks a boxer?

Re: Detroit DDEC II People

Reply #16 – February 18, 2017, 03:06:24 pm

So many companies that had overseas projects, with many different types of equipment

went with Detroit Diesel. A 4 cyl. head. was the same as a V-8, a 3 cyl. fit a V-6, the 6 cyl. also

worked on the V-12 and so on. Same valves, head gasket sets, etc. government used

a bunch of DD engines and Allison Trans. over the years.

Carter-

Re: Detroit DDEC II People

Reply #17 – February 18, 2017, 03:47:45 pm

Quote from: Old phart phred – February 18, 2017, 02:46:25 pm

So was the Fairbanks a boxer?

Yes, a vertical boxer. Crankshafts are about 12 degrees apart as I remember. A German licensed design. Bet they were sorry. Check this page Martin's Fairbanks Morse page

No head gaskets, valves, etc plus very efficient.

John Haygarth worked on still another high performance design. This had a lot of potential.

Pierce

Re: Detroit DDEC II People

Reply #18 – February 18, 2017, 03:57:38 pm

Pierce you are correct, anything from 900 to 3600 hp.
A tad big for our FTs though.
JohnH

Re: Detroit DDEC II People

Reply #19 – February 18, 2017, 05:53:44 pm

I ignorantly have avoided pursuing any of the 2 stroke DD for sale as all those moving parts sounded overly complex, starting to make some sense now. Are the camshafts gear driven so they are fairly easy to yank the heads, and swap the jugs. Gasket sets still available? I will check with the retired diesel tech down the street, to see what tools he has, maybe even a prolink 9000 in his box that I can use. What do you download the prolink data to?

Thanks for all input

Re: Detroit DDEC II People

Reply #20 – February 18, 2017, 08:26:34 pm

Gear driven. All parts available but Mercedes Reliabilt Detroit parts are premium priced. I told the story about the MBZ cylinder heads at around $800 vs Balo heads for $125. Which are you going to buy? Easy to check ebay for all parts including gaskets. Remember, there are 700,000 of these engines in use today. Can you imagine Mercedes producing an engine that they don't make parts for??? As Craneman said, Clevite are one of the best aftermarket. Perhaps even better than factory. Do the research asking big name shops, investigate and get your ducks in a row well ahead of time.

Read ProLink directly or print out info with Sharp thermo printer. Contact Jerry M for info and the manual. I have it in PDF format but best to have a hard copy in front of you when you use it.

If you pull the liners with pistons, you can just make a hardwood or metal tool to go across the cylinder a little into the intake ports on both sides and then put a socket on the crank and with a breaker bar, just force the cylinder up with the piston. With the pistons out, you will need a tool to pull the liners. They come out very easily. Watch YouTube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzPk8zYMoHc This is for a four cycle Detroit 60 series but about the same for the 92.

Pierce

Re: Detroit DDEC II People

Reply #21 – February 19, 2017, 12:24:15 pm

Would a 94 with ddec cruise control still be a ddec ll ECM?

Re: Detroit DDEC II People

Reply #22 – February 19, 2017, 12:55:25 pm

Quote from: Old phart phred – February 19, 2017, 12:24:15 pm

Would a 94 with ddec cruise control still be a ddec ll ECM?

All Foretravels with the 6V-92TA are DDEC II and have cruise control. No fast idle possible (stock) with this cruise control.

I think Jerrry and I have the only U300 36 footers but perhaps others?

Lot of nice upgrades including a much better air cleaner intake, ICC lights, nice headliner, etc. Late 1994 might have the large engine access and front access like the 1995 GVs.

P

Re: Detroit DDEC II People

Reply #23 – February 19, 2017, 01:18:40 pm

Yup, this 94 is side radiator, with access to the front of the motor. Has anyone been able to achieve a glass dash with easy access to parameters for the ddec ll?

Re: Detroit DDEC II People

Reply #24 – February 19, 2017, 01:52:14 pm

Check the iOS app store: RV Dash on the App Store This gives a "glass dash" for an iPad. The app is free but the hardware is a bit pricy.

Silverleaf is in use on quite a few member's U300 Detroits.

Neither one will give the info or test injectors, etc like the Pro-Link 9000. The Pro-Link is a tool while the others are great for engine displays.

Pierce

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