Update: - leak found Aux Compressor runs every 16 minutes for 1.5 minutes ea run

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Update: - leak found Aux Compressor runs every 16 minutes for 1.5 minutes ea run

February 09, 2017, 08:36:34 pm

I'll be searching all the older topics as well.

The Aux air compressor is running every 16 minutes, for approx. 1.5 minutes each time. The blow off valve by the compressor is working correctly. Front and back slides are out. Site is fairly level, coach is level.

No noticeable air leaks in compressor compartment nor around slide bladders. Air drain valves are closed with no leaks noticeable at air drains. Ambient temp 60 degrees and we are just north of Houston.

Is this normal run times and frequency? If not, since no air leaks noticeable, where should I start?

Air bags were replaced a few years ago, and slide bladders in 2010. I do have two 6 pack repair kits on hand. I'll be in Nac around 19 Feb for a week or so.

2nd question: are both slides hydraulic operated? Or is one air operated for the slide mechanism?

Re: Aux Compressor runs every 16 minutes for 1.5 minutes each run

Reply #1 – February 09, 2017, 09:08:43 pm

The slides are hydraulic, the bladders are air.

Try closing the shutoff valves on the input side of each slide bladder manifold. If the compressor still runs, you have eliminated the slide bladder and mainfold side of each valve.

The problem is then probably in your 6-packs or the lines to the tank and the manifolds.

Rich

Re: Aux Compressor runs every 16 minutes for 1.5 minutes each run

Reply #2 – February 09, 2017, 09:15:24 pm

Quote from: Rich Bowman – February 09, 2017, 09:08:43 pm

The slides are hydraulic, the bladders are air.

Try closing the shutoff valves on the input side of each slide bladder manifold. If the compressor still runs, you have eliminated the slide bladder and mainfold side of each valve.

The problem is then probably in your 6-packs or the lines to the tank and the manifolds.

Rich

Are the shut off valves for the slide bladders behind the pleats on the inside of the coach?

Re: Aux Compressor runs every 16 minutes for 1.5 minutes each run

Reply #3 – February 09, 2017, 10:02:30 pm

For the LR slide it is the top right hose with the black twist valve, is in the 2nd bay, drivers side, We do not have a BR slide but shutoff should be near the LR one.. Another thing to check is the "Pop Off tank safety valve on the end of the wet tank.

Re: Aux Compressor runs every 16 minutes for 1.5 minutes each run

Reply #4 – February 10, 2017, 06:17:19 am

What Saddlesore said.

Rich

Re: Aux Compressor runs every 16 minutes for 1.5 minutes each run

Reply #5 – February 10, 2017, 06:52:41 am

We just had the same problem. LR badder was leaking. Ouch, several CB's.

Re: Aux Compressor runs every 16 minutes for 1.5 minutes each run

Reply #6 – February 10, 2017, 08:25:07 am

Quote from: AC7880 – February 09, 2017, 08:36:34 pm

No noticeable air leaks in compressor compartment nor around slide bladders. Air drain valves are closed with no leaks noticeable at air drains. ?

Dan,

"Noticeable" meaning the soap bubble test?
Also, check plastic filter housings for cracks.

Re: Aux Compressor runs every 16 minutes for 1.5 minutes each run

Reply #7 – February 10, 2017, 09:14:59 am

Chasing air system leaks can be...entertaining. Just ask almost every owner of any brand coach using air-powered systems.

Some suggestions from my not-yet-successful quest to eliminate irritating leaks:

1. Study your air system diagram. It is a complex system, especially with 2 slides. Understand which tank feeds what components, and where the factory installed one-way check valves are located. Verify that the check valves are clean and operational.

2. As Rich suggested, use existing shut-off valves to systematically isolate different parts of the system. This may help you to narrow down the possible location of leaks.

3. Add additional shut-off valves to major air lines not covered by the factory valves.

4. Add pressure gauges so you can monitor the pressure in each air tank individually.

5. If you can (hopefully) narrow down the location of the leak, then check every connection in that section with soap solution. Or use a ultrasonic leak detector (Google it). DO NOT assume that you can "hear" a leak - in my experience that is a false assumption. But then, my high frequency hearing is totally shot, so...

6. Applying the soap solution with a spray bottle does not work well for me - it just makes a mess. I found this video demonstrating a different technique, and have found it useful. (YRMV) Also, note the use of a removable pressure gauge to monitor tank pressure. I have a male quick connect fitting on my "front" and "rear" air tank drain valves, and a pressure gauge with a female connector. This is useful when working on the air system under the front of the coach, and for verifying the readings from my factory dash pressure gauge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dGkYKo5_NQ

Re: Aux Compressor runs every 16 minutes for 1.5 minutes each run

Reply #8 – February 10, 2017, 11:29:13 am

Just went through this very problem. Coach is now at MOT. MOT stated air leak found at valve into slide bladder control block, leaking around the valve itself. Between this issue and an initial issue with the leveling system MOT has over 15 hours in labor in working on the air system on my coach.
dave

Re: Aux Compressor runs every 16 minutes for 1.5 minutes each run

Reply #9 – February 10, 2017, 11:30:31 am

I found my air leakage to be the in line check valves leaking back through.
There is a check valve off the discharge of the aux. 12V air compressor. I believe there ae three other ones in the entire system, check your schematics for general location.

Re: Aux Compressor runs every 16 minutes for 1.5 minutes each run

Reply #10 – February 10, 2017, 12:19:20 pm

Quote from: Tom Endres – February 10, 2017, 11:30:31 am

I found my air leakage to be the in line check valves leaking back through.
There is a check valve off the discharge of the aux. 12V air compressor. I believe there ae three other ones in the entire system, check your schematics for general location.

On my '93 no-slide coach, I count eleven one-way check valves (including the protection valves). You might have overlooked a few!

Re: Aux Compressor runs every 16 minutes for 1.5 minutes each run

Reply #11 – February 10, 2017, 12:23:16 pm

I narrowed down the problem. It is related to the solenoid/cutoff valve/fitting to one of the slide bladders. The outermost bladder connection solenoid does make a sound when valve is on, and no sound when valve is off.

In photo one, bubble test showed a minor leak at the fittings screwdriver points to. I was able to tighten the fittings and end this small leak. There is also a tiny leak at the cutoff valve shaft when it is "on" and no minor leak when it is "off".

In photo two, the solenoid the screwdriver is pointing to stops making the sound when the solenoid is tapped upon (stops making sound for a short while). The sound is not a full up air leak sound, but clearly a slow air escape (since turning off the valve ends the sound). I currently have the valve turned off, and will check both bladders to see if still inflated in around 2 hours.

I will look at air schematics again. Is the top of the solenoid system air entry into the system and bottom output to the slide bladder? Is the outermost one to the front slide, and inner one to the rear slide? The inner one has the number 2 marked on it.

Thanks for the help in finding it.

Re: Aux Compressor runs every 16 minutes for 1.5 minutes each run

Reply #12 – February 10, 2017, 12:46:29 pm

If you are feeling that is excessive, I suggest you speak with their service manager - he was very fair when I had a similar issue on number of hours for a task that took too long in our combined judgement

Re: Aux Compressor runs every 16 minutes for 1.5 minutes each run

Reply #13 – February 10, 2017, 01:54:42 pm

I found this older thread that has most of what I need for the next troubleshooting and repair attempts.
HWH Slideroom Bladder Manifold repair/rework

Excellent write up by Rich Bowman.

Re: Aux Compressor runs every 16 minutes for 1.5 minutes each run

Reply #14 – February 10, 2017, 03:55:13 pm

Rebuilding the vacuum solenoid did not solve the problem. Also tried a rebuilt solenoid the previous owner left in coach - still not it.

Re: Aux Compressor runs every 16 minutes for 1.5 minutes each run

Reply #15 – February 10, 2017, 04:46:32 pm

I can't recall, is the brass component between the ball valve and the manifold a check valve? If it is, can you check to see if it's failed/is leaking back?

Re: Aux Compressor runs every 16 minutes for 1.5 minutes each run

Reply #16 – February 10, 2017, 05:06:47 pm

I agree and am also suspicious of the check valve. I am going to check home depot/Lowes for a check valve and for a cut off valve. There is a very slight weep from the cut off valve shaft when open, none when closed.

According to: HWH Slideroom Bladder Manifold repair/rework :
1/4" Male to 1/4" Male piece check valve.
1/4" Female to 1/4" Female shutoff valve.

I believe if it was the vacuum/exhaust solenoid, either the rebuilt spare or the one I rebuilt today would have solved the problem.

I have no compressor runs with the cut off valve in the off position, and the slide bladder still looks/feels firm after a couple of hours. Front and rear air brake tanks are also staying at 75 psi.

Quote from: Michelle – February 10, 2017, 04:46:32 pm

I can't recall, is the brass component between the ball valve and the manifold a check valve? If it is, can you check to see if it's failed/is leaking back?

Re: Aux Compressor runs every 16 minutes for 1.5 minutes each run

Reply #17 – February 10, 2017, 07:15:36 pm

Quote from: AC7880 – February 10, 2017, 12:23:16 pm

There is also a tiny leak at the cutoff valve shaft when it is "on" and no minor leak when it is "off".

Doesn't that explain why it's not leaking now?

Re: Aux Compressor runs every 16 minutes for 1.5 minutes each run

Reply #18 – February 10, 2017, 07:27:53 pm

Quote from: Travelin' Man – February 10, 2017, 07:15:36 pm

Doesn't that explain why it's not leaking now?

I think the leak on the shaft of the cut off valve is so minor (barely any bubbles at all, can't feel it, can't hear it) that it would not make compressor run every 16 minutes. Has to be a more major cause, in my opinion.

Re: Aux Compressor runs every 16 minutes for 1.5 minutes each run

Reply #19 – February 10, 2017, 09:05:22 pm

Your system is either losing air or thinks it's losing air. What about a bad pressure switch?

Re: Aux Compressor runs every 16 minutes for 1.5 minutes each run

Reply #20 – February 11, 2017, 12:09:33 am

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – February 10, 2017, 09:14:59 am

Chasing air system leaks can be...entertaining. Just ask almost every owner of any brand coach using air-powered systems.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dGkYKo5_NQ

I just found this video the other day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKiaNJ78wq0

I ordered a bottle from Amazon. A bit more expensive than soap bubbles but love how it doesn't add its on bubbles to the joint.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00H895GH8

Should be here tomorrow. I'll post on how well it works.

see ya
ken

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: Aux Compressor runs every 16 minutes for 1.5 minutes each run

Reply #21 – February 11, 2017, 08:47:46 am

Quote from: kenhat – February 11, 2017, 12:09:33 am

A bit more expensive than soap bubbles...

You are the Master of Understatement.

Re: Aux Compressor runs every 16 minutes for 1.5 minutes each run

Reply #22 – February 11, 2017, 08:14:42 pm

Found the leak - and it is a rupture in the living room slide bladder.

It is the bladder in the lower slide track dead center. There is a guide/containment ledge at the center bottom where you can see the slide bladder (it's a flat piece on top of the bladder in the channel area). It looks like it did not extend far enough to cover the entire bladder in the channel, landing dead center on the bladder. The bladder split right at dead center on this "flap". Probably split 3-4" across.

The reason I had not suspected the bladder was it stays sealed between slide room and coach side. It leaks at higher pressure when aux pump runs, then self heals as pressure drops in the slide seal (no leak once pressure is reduced by leak down.

All folks with this style slide should check the guide/flap in the channel at bottom dead center of slide. Make sure it extends out over the entire bladder..

The bedroom slide "flap" extends out nicely past the bladder. The living room lands dead center on the bladder.

This older post, page two, has detailed info and pics of the issue on this style slide. Emergency '03 slide bladder repair

I'll post 2 photos in a few minutes.

Re: Update: - leak found Aux Compressor runs every 16 minutes for 1.5 minutes ea run

Reply #23 – February 11, 2017, 08:30:27 pm

Pics of the "flap" that should hold back bladder seal in the guide channel, bottom of slide.

1st pic Barry Beams photo - correct position of "flap" on his rear slide

Pic 2, "flap" landing dead center on bladder. This is where the bladder has split.

Pic 3 : small rupture right on edge of guide.

On our coach, both slide bladders were replaced in Sept 2010. I only intend to have the living room bladder replaced. We are 120 miles south of Nac, traveling up there the week of 19 Feb.

Who should I call to check on bladder availability and install? FOT, MOT, or other? Does the living room slide - slide inward to replace, or removed by forklift?

We should be able to leave our cats locked in the bath/bedroom while the work is done - correct?

Re: Update: - leak found Aux Compressor runs every 16 minutes for 1.5 minutes ea run

Reply #24 – February 11, 2017, 08:32:31 pm

They should be able to push your year into the coach so it is a much easier fix. Still going to,cost a couple coach bucks though.

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