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Topic: Motor losing power (Read 1716 times) previous topic - next topic

Motor losing power

Returning from Disney World (the most funnest and expensivist place on Earth) and the Cummins is losing power for a about 5 seconds, then runs normally for a minute or 2 and rinse and repeat. It started about 30 minutes or so after filling up this AM. Took a 2 hour power nap, turned the engine off, and afterwards the ole lady drove it for about 2 hours no issues. Then I took my shift and within a few minutes the same issue. BAd fuel? Revenge of the feminazi witches? Maybe I should just let her drive.
97 U320
Build 5099
Victoria, Tx

Re: Motor losing power

Reply #1 –
Those are classic symptoms of bad fuel and you are stopping up the fuel filters with most likely water. Does your primary filter have a clear bowl that you can look for water?  Do you have a spare filter set on board? If so now would be the time to pull over and install them.

Start with the simple stuff first.

Pamela & Mike
Pamela & Mike 97 U 320

"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters."

Re: Motor losing power

Reply #2 –
In P6 I have 2 fuel filters, one a normal paper type with some electronic felgercarg attaché do to the bottom of it, the other is just a permanent metal screen, replaced it a couple months ago since it was crushed like a beer can.

Now that I think of it I'm wondering if this thing doesn't have a water purge?

And yes I have one of the paper filters.
97 U320
Build 5099
Victoria, Tx

Re: Motor losing power

Reply #3 –
Quote from: Michaeloh59 –
In P6 I have 2 fuel filters, one a normal paper type with some electronic felgercarg attaché do to the bottom of it, the other is just a permanent metal screen, replaced it a couple months ago since it was crushed like a beer can.

Now that I think of it I'm wondering if this thing doesn't have a water purge?

Sounds like you still have the old style Racor  If this is what you have I would think strongly about updating to something that you can get replacement filters for while on the road that is easer found.  It could be a basic manual primer pump filter base that holds a R-90-P filter or something elaborate if you like.

Yes it should have a water purge.  OEM the filter water purge discharge had a puke bag attached so it would be environmentally friendly when used, by now most are detreated beyond use.

Pamela & Mike

Pamela & Mike 97 U 320

"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters."

Re: Motor losing power

Reply #4 –
RvT,

Not to be an overeducated burro or muddy the water,  with this coach being a U-320 it will have the M-11 Celect.  There fly by wire system works differently. If the throttle actuator acts up on his coach he will be setting at that spot of failure.

Pamela & Mike
Pamela & Mike 97 U 320

"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters."

Re: Motor losing power

Reply #5 –
Where did you get fuel?  What type of place?

Re: Motor losing power

Reply #6 –
Winn fuel filter vacuum leaks constantly and all the fuel lines are cracked from the low sulphur fuel if they have not been replaced.

Rubber hoses not good with the new fuel.

If both of those good the cam position sensor fails on all early m11's

You can hear the erratic idle standing at the rear with the engine running.

Oil soaks through the potted material and shorts out both circuits after a while.

New design has a solid metal tip.  No oil can get inside.

Inexpensive part.  External installation. 
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Motor losing power

Reply #8 –
Quote from: Caflashbob –
Winn fuel filter vacuum leaks constantly and all the fuel lines are cracked from the low sulphur fuel if they have not been replaced.

Rubber hoses not good with the new fuel.

If both of those good the cam position sensor fails on all early m11's

You can hear the erratic idle standing at the rear with the engine running.

Oil soaks through the potted material and shorts out both circuits after a while.

New design has a solid metal tip.  No oil can get inside.

Inexpensive part.  External installation. 

It idles pretty nice. As for the filter I don't know if I have a Winn filter, the main fuel filter is, I believe the racor referred to earlier. It sets in a metal cup and has some wiring extending from that cup. We replaced that filter and I believe the metal cup as well a couple months ago.

My question for y'all is this; there is a panel in the engine compartment with a couple buttons for air purge and water purge. The air purge button gets me a little whirring sound, but the water purge nothing. Of course there is also an 'H2O' idiot light on that panel. It is not lit. Must that lift be on for water purge to function?
97 U320
Build 5099
Victoria, Tx

Re: Motor losing power

Reply #9 –
If you have the purge thing you have the Winn.

You can sornd hundreds like I did three times trying to fix the poor design or save yourself a lot of money and replace the unit like I finally did.

The ISM engines have both a cam position sensor AND a crank position sensor as a backup.

Your and mine have only the cam position sensor.  Not made for low sulphur fuel

Inside is two separate circuits.  Over time both become oil soaked through the potting material and cause a total engine failure and a tow.

The sensor is $50? Range and externally screws into the block.

The other upgrade is the atmospheric pressure sensor.  Simple plug in.  Removed from block now on the frame next to the engine.

Better altitude sensing.

No recall  just updated parts. 

You need both.

After you fix the Winn the cracked fuel hoses, if not replaced, will show up.

No one told me this five years ago.  Spent a lot of money to figure this out.

Adjusting the valves and injectors also made a difference.

The m11 are much smoother with a cetane booster. 

The m11 was not made fior more than B5 fuel.  No b20



"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Motor losing power

Reply #11 –
I can help you spend lots of coach bucks.  Support your local shop stuff.

But we intend to drive the coach bucks out of ours.

Five years.  30k miles. 
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Motor losing power

Reply #12 –
I'm pretty sure if the cam sensor fails the coach won't start.
That's not exactly the same as a total engine failure.
The selected media item is not currently available. Dave Head & Megan Westbrook
Titusville, FL - The Great Outdoors
'98 270 buying this month
Toad is a 2018 F150 XLT

Re: Motor losing power

Reply #13 –
Yes when the engine position sensor fails it will not open the fuel solenoid. I know from experience trying to get inland before a storm. Ether will help get you started though.
2025 Wanderbox Outpost 32 on F600 Expedition Motorhome
2015 Born Free Royal Splendor on Ford 550 nonslide version  for sale
Former Coaches  covering. 360,000 miles
1999 34 U270
2000 36 U320
2001 42' double slide U320
2018 Jeep Rubicon

Re: Motor losing power

Reply #14 –
A oem Winn system and no reports of fuel line replacement and ULSD fuel seem fairly clear what issues are here.

I have the same coach.  Experienced the same issues like many others and fixed the coach.

I started out with the easy ones.

Other than a badly clogged air filter I also had.  The rear air filter gauge was incorrect.

"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Motor losing power

Reply #15 –
This solved all my fuel issues, great product.
Product Features
 

Fuel Pro 382
The Fuel Pro 382 is a full function combination of diesel fuel filtration and water separation that will save you time, money and unnecessary down-time.
The Fuel Pro 382 is recommended for heavy duty diesel engines with flow rates up to 180 gallon/hour.
Models and Options

Base Model: Unheated
Electronic Water in Fuel Sensor (WIF)
Coolant Heat
Electric Preheater Options (Heaters can be combined if desired)
12 VDC pre-heater
24 VDC pre-heater
120 VAC overnight heater
"SEEING IS BELIEVING®"

The combination of the clear cover on top, the EleMax filter cartridge and the Statapore filter media ensure better water separation, longer filter life and provide instant visual diagnostics of fuel quality to protect engine system components.

EXTENDED FILTER LIFE

Change the filter only when the fuel reaches the black band on the filter wrap. As the fuel rises inside the filter cover, the vapor pressure relief valve on the cap equalizes pressure and allows more of the filter media to be used.

The color of the fuel and the filter media is not an indication of when to change the filter as there is still unused media under the filter wrap.

FUEL HEATING

With multiple fuel heating options, the Fuel Pro 382 will keep you on the road in the harshest winter conditions. Electric pre-heaters warm the fuel once the ignition key is turned. Overnight heaters can be used to keep the fuel inside the Fuel Pro warm when the temperatures drop. Coolant heat uses the heat of the running engine to maintain fuel temperatures on the road.

FUEL PRO 382 SPECIFICATIONS

Fuel Pro 382 Specifications  pdf format
Height Overall   16.13" (409.7 mm)
Depth Overall   7.25" (184.15 mm)
Width, Max   max 6.89" (175 mm)
Mount Bracket Centers   5.91" (150.11 mm)
Weight (Dry)   7.25 - 9.75 lbs (3.9 - 4.42 kg)
Fuel Capacity (w filter)   64.2 oz (1.9 L)
Fuel Connections (Inlet)   1/2"-14 NPTF (M22 x 1.5)
Fuel Connection (Outlet)   1/2"-14 NPTF (M22 x 1.5)
Max Operation Fuel Flow Rate   180 gal/h (681 l/h)
Water Trap Capacity   33.8 fl oz (1.0 L)
Filter Service Clearance   Min. 3.5" (88.9 mm)
Electrical pre-heaters   12 VDC, 250 W, 18 A ± 3 A
24 VDC, 250 W, 11 A ± 2 A
Overnight heater   120 VAC, 75 W, 0.65 A ± .1 A
'The strength of the effort is the measure of the result'
1995 U320SE
40'
#4740
#17648

Re: Motor losing power

Reply #16 –
Quote from: cubesphere –
This solved all my fuel issues, great product:  Fuel Pro 382

I agree-- good product.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Motor losing power

Reply #17 –
As always I very much appreciate all the replies, but Holy Coach Bucks y'all are gonna cost/save me some $. We are headed to old town motor coach in a few days and we will be looking at the fuel lines as well as the cam position sensor and talk about a different filter system in necessary, as well as a couple other projects. Naturally.
97 U320
Build 5099
Victoria, Tx

Re: Motor losing power

Reply #18 –
Join the crowd.  I have spent more than 50% of my purchase price continiously upgrading/replacing all the worn/old systems in our coach.

Half for better results, the other half for pride of ownership.  We need 20 more years out of our 20 year old coach.

Jack up the radiator cap and replace the rest.  Not for the faint of wallet.

How much is your pleasure worth?
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Motor losing power

Reply #19 –
Quote from: Michaeloh59 –
As always I very much appreciate all the replies, but Holy Coach Bucks y'all are gonna cost/save me some $. We are headed to old town motor coach in a few days and we will be looking at the fuel lines as well as the cam position sensor and talk about a different filter system in necessary, as well as a couple other projects. Naturally.
Time to learn how to become self sufficient, and that's a dirty job, but very gratifying and sometimes priceless. Don't be afraid to learn a new skill. And obtain tools to perform common tasks. This site is a huge database of help. Sailors by nature are required to become self sufficient as there's nobody else to rely on, and mid ocean with no internet access. NAC and $ is a crutch, ask or search the forum and you will receive. Walk into a truck stop and see what common filters etc are in stock, and use this as a guideline to help select a filter systems, and carry spares. Successful OTR truckers are prepared just like sailors.
Old Phart Phred, EIEIO
89 GV ored 36' #3405 300 hp cat 3208 ATAAC side radiator, mountain tamer exhaust brake

Re: Motor losing power

Reply #20 –
Quote from: Old phart phred –
Time to learn how to become self sufficient, and that's a dirty job, but very gratifying and sometimes priceless. Don't be afraid to learn a new skill. And obtain tools to perform common tasks. This site is a huge database of help. Sailors by nature are required to become self sufficient as there's nobody else to rely on, and mid ocean with no internet access. NAC and $ is a crutch, ask or search the forum and you will receive. Walk into a truck stop and see what common filters etc are in stock, and use this as a guideline to help select a filter systems, and carry spares. Successful OTR truckers are prepared just like sailors.
Yea well Im not a gearhead and that is a problem. I would also love to learn to sail but as you point out, sailing is for gearheads. Owning this coach for just a few months has been a gigantic lesson in how much I dont know about it. OTOH we do love this thing, and so Im gonna have to take your advice.  Never ever going back to a fiver.
97 U320
Build 5099
Victoria, Tx

Re: Motor losing power

Reply #21 –
I do not consider myself a gearhead but I try to do it myself first. I don't mess with the engine or tranny, boost power, change gear ratios etc that's for gearheads. If it doesn't require a 1 1/4 inch wrench it's fair game for me. In the beginning stages of replacing both air conditioners at present. Opted for the 15000 btu Atwood's.

Roland
.
1993 U280 4341
2010 Jeep Liberty
The Pied Pipers

Re: Motor losing power

Reply #22 –
Quote from: Roland Begin –
In the beginning stages of replacing both air conditioners at present. Opted for the 15000 btu Atwood's.
Roland,

You made a good choice. I bought two of them from PPL and decided I could not get them up to the roof. Took them to a local RV dealer, who estimated $250 apiece to install them. Two weeks later they were ready, at an installation cost of $1400!

Trent
Trent and Jean Eyler
2000  U295  4003  WTFE  ISC  350
Build#5603 MC#17385

Re: Motor losing power

Reply #23 –
Quote from: TulsaTrent –
Roland,

You made a good choice. I bought two of them from PPL and decided I could not get them up to the roof.

Trent

We are at our lot in Lakewood NM made sure I had someway of getting them on the roof before I ordered them. Have a tractor with a bucket and some young help.

Roland
1993 U280 4341
2010 Jeep Liberty
The Pied Pipers

Re: Motor losing power

Reply #24 –
Quote from: TulsaTrent –
Roland,

You made a good choice. I bought two of them from PPL and decided I could not get them up to the roof. Took them to a local RV dealer, who estimated $250 apiece to install them. Two weeks later they were ready, at an installation cost of $1400!

Trent

Ouch - show me the hours! $250 each sounds about  $100 bucks too cheap. 2 guys 30 min to lift units off and put back on. Then one tech 1 hour to tighten bolts and terminate connections, and test. What was the disposal fee, 30 minutes to recover refrigerant on these tiny units? Musta paid for everybody's spring break.
Old Phart Phred, EIEIO
89 GV ored 36' #3405 300 hp cat 3208 ATAAC side radiator, mountain tamer exhaust brake