Help on budget to renovate a 96 36' U270

Topic: Help on budget to renovate a 96 36' U270 (Read 1915 times) previous topic - next topic

Help on budget to renovate a 96 36' U270

April 26, 2017, 10:28:59 am

My goal would be to get this 96 as close to new condition as possible. I like the idea of a simple coach and the light color oak cabinets of the U270.

For the sake of argument I want to assume the motor, transmission, and generator are in good condition and there are no bulkhead or other rust issues. There are no water intrusion issues. If any of these items don't check out the deal may not fly. I do want to include the cost of a full service on the motor, transmission, and generator.

There is some minor fiberglass work to be done, and the decals need to go. I have no need to replace the decals. A plain white coach is OK with me. All the fiberglass work looks to be simple and there is no structure damage behind it.

All of the 96 electronics like TV's, back up camera etc need to be replaced. I want to add a flat screen and have it done so it looks like the factory did it. No need for the rear TV and would like to convert that space into more storage.

I would want to replace anything that is even near its service life. Fuel lines, air hoses, dryers, compressor,

Remove all the external caulking and redo it. I would rather do it all at once to get me to a good baseline. I would love to have suggestions on what needs to be changed out.

All seating surfaces are to be recovered. The current owner replaced the carpet with Pergo and that seems to be OK.

Is there a good argument to replace the single pane windows? We live in the mountains of NC and I want to keep it warm all year around.

I want a residential refrigerator.

The Joey bed in the basement was removed, I would want to replace it.

I would want to budget a thorough clean up and insulation of the engine compartment.

I would budget for new batteries for both coach and house. There is an existing 450W solar setup that is +- 5 years old that looks to be done really well.

I would want to do everything I could to seal up the underside of the coach.

Tires are < 5 years old and 99% tread. I will probably put off replacing them but I will add to the budget to get them replaced.

For the budget I want to assume I am paying someone else to do the work. In reality I will do some of the work myself.

Re: Help on budget to renovate a 96 36' U270

Reply #1 – April 26, 2017, 10:43:35 am

If they haven't been done then budget to replace the engine radiator, radiator fan motors, and transmission cooler. These are critical components and planning for, and scheduling, replacements will keep the coach on the road for years to come. Others will disagree with me, but if your intent is a restoration then don't neglect the engine. It's not as pretty or fun as the visual stuff, but it will keep you on the road and moving reliably.

Estimate about $$10-15k for all the parts and shop labor. Could be lower depending on your skill level, etc.

Replace front marker lights in front cap with LED units. About $20 each for good quality fully sealed units. $6 for thicker multi-piece units. OEM bulb lights become a source of leaks in the front end cap.

Chris

Re: Help on budget to renovate a 96 36' U270

Reply #2 – April 26, 2017, 11:07:02 am

By the time you do all of those Renovations and work on that coach you will be so upside down financially in it. I think you would be far better to take your money by a newer coach that needs nothing has been well maintained and be enjoying it instead of working on it. Jmo

Re: Help on budget to renovate a 96 36' U270

Reply #3 – April 26, 2017, 11:18:35 am

Whatever you think the final cost will be for all your known renovations/fixes... add an additional buffer (another 50% or so for a large undertaking??) to that to be prepared for the unknown. If you know it is a big undertaking, then you are sure to encounter some things you thought (or were hoping with crossed fingers) would not be an issue.

To share our personal experience - we found that our 1999, which was in very good condition, required another 10-15% of the purchase price in outdated maintenance and minor fixes, and we chose to invest an additional 15%-20% of the purchase price for livability features and updates (batteries, solar, inverter, interior aestheics). So we ended up putting in an additional 30% or so of the purchase price over the first 6 months, and our coach did not require anything major.

Re: Help on budget to renovate a 96 36' U270

Reply #4 – April 26, 2017, 11:37:11 am

Quote

By the time you do all of those Renovations and work on that coach you will be so upside down financially in it.

I'm with Stump. You are going to fly by 10 or $15K very quickly with that list. I would recommend that you find a very well cared for coach and pay top dollar for it. Good luck.
jor

Re: Help on budget to renovate a 96 36' U270

Reply #5 – April 26, 2017, 11:56:30 am

Hmmm.

Your idea has merit, but you are far better off to wait and snag a coach that has most of this stuff done. The mechanical stuff adds very little to the value (selling price) of the coach, and the cosmetic stuff may return 25-33% of purchase cost at sale.
If you were dining almost all the labor yourself, I would say go for it. IF you are going to do all this in the first year and then keep and use for 20 or more years, go for it. If you can't realistically say yes to one of those two scenarios, wait for an "over improved" coach to come along and jump on it. Your mods are int eh $40-50K range ( I know and have the invoices to substantiate), and yes, a. Coach with all these mods will sell quickly at a premium to an "average" coach, but ext someone else spend all that money, no then you buy it when they are done with it for a $15-$20K premium over what an "average" coach would bring.
Just guessing - partial list with some rough dollars - probably most n the low side Fuel lines $3K
Residential $3-5K
upholstery$2K - 6K
Brakes $2K per axle
Headlights $3K+
Step Mod $3.5K

TV - $2k for both installed
Batteries $2K

MCD shades $2-6K depending on how many Extend AC duct to front of coach $1k Remove decals - DIY
Paint roof $1.5K

Steering box replaced with rebuild $1K+ And YES you want Saul pane windows if you are in a climate where temps get below 45 degrees or above 80 on a regular axis and you intend to heat/cool Non slide coach will return even less than 33% at resale - you need to find a buyer who is willing to pay for the upgrades, but isn't interested in a slide - while many on the forum desire a no slide coach, 90+%f the buyers out there will opt for slide if budget allows them t o get into a 2000 or newer coach Good luck and feel free to PM me with any questions.
Also, Miz Dani has a very nice U-270 that she has really done similar to what you are considering you. Might want to connect with her and get her input.

Re: Help on budget to renovate a 96 36' U270

Reply #6 – April 26, 2017, 12:11:24 pm

Look in the classified there is just what you are looking for.

Re: Help on budget to renovate a 96 36' U270

Reply #7 – April 26, 2017, 12:38:21 pm

Quote from: craneman – April 26, 2017, 12:11:24 pm

Look in the classified there is just what you are looking for.

Yes, that is pretty close.

Re: Help on budget to renovate a 96 36' U270

Reply #8 – April 26, 2017, 12:54:31 pm

X 7or 8 on what others have said. Your talking about a large amount of cash outlay possibly 2-3 times more that the coach is worth. That really comes into play should the coach get involved in a total loss situation, insurance is only going to pay market value for the coach no where near what you have in it. But if you want that coach then it's worth it you don't worry about return on investment. If it where me and I was going to do that it would be a 36' U320 hot rod.

Re: Help on budget to renovate a 96 36' U270

Reply #9 – April 26, 2017, 01:02:45 pm

I just went down this road with a 97 270. Our horizon is 10 years. When we purchased ours it already had tires, batteries and new Norcold. Tim is pretty close. Numbers below are horseshoes.

Interior
Upholstery 4.5k but did not redo valences
MCD shades 2.5k
TV and satellite receiver update 2.7
Drawer and pull out construction .8
New back up camera and monitor .6

Exterior
Headlight conversion 3.5
Gel coat recovery 1.3 plus 700 decal removal. Replace them for 2.3 additional
Bulkhead preventive work 1k at MOT

Electrical
I reworked our system myself and if you want components and prices they are posted but can't link it where I am
Solar varies but anticipate 1.2 - 2.2 depending on your needs and ability. IF you are going residential fridge read Rodgers work. Be very clear on how you will use the coach before making that leap as power demands may not match usage if you don't plan it out. I have made many mods more consistent with Marine than coach. Numbers below are from memory and are horseshoes.

Mechanical
Steering box 1500 but more for me due to some shenanigans but that is a different story.
Fuel lines 2k
Bags 2k
FSD shocks 2k
Transcend 1.2 for two fills as best I remember
Coolant change out to Extended...don't remember
Wheel seals don't remember but also did rear axels and Meritor spring helpers.
Serviced hydraulic filters and fluid

Engine compartment insulation is very straight forward but generator is not and this is variable.

I have done a number of other projects and will be doing the plumbing next.

Put a spreadsheet together with the costs. Figure out the base line then add or subtract based on anticipated. You can sort out the apples and oranges that way.

We went into this expecting these costs and wanting good bones so we could do it our way.

Re: Help on budget to renovate a 96 36' U270

Reply #10 – April 26, 2017, 01:06:38 pm

Quote from: bbeane – April 26, 2017, 12:54:31 pm

X 7or 8 on what others have said. Your talking about a large amount of cash outlay possibly 2-3 times more that the coach is worth. That really comes into play should the coach get involved in a total loss situation, insurance is only going to pay market value for the coach no where near what you have in it. But if you want that coach then it's worth it you don't worry about return on investment. If it where me and I was going to do that it would be a 36' U320 hot rod.

Some insurance companies allow you to set an "agreed upon value" rather than a market value. You might pay a little more for this type of policy, but if you plan to remodel the unit and fix it up it's an option to look into.

Chris

Re: Help on budget to renovate a 96 36' U270

Reply #11 – April 26, 2017, 01:08:06 pm

Quote from: jor – April 26, 2017, 11:37:11 am

I'm with Stump. You are going to fly by 10 or $15K very quickly with that list. I would recommend that you find a very well cared for coach and pay top dollar for it. Good luck.
jor

X2...When our beloved Airstream was wrecked, I'd always been curious about FTs and we started researching them. Took a year with both computers to know what was what, but did not know about "THE FORUM". We knew a GV Unii from '93 to '96 was not only in our price range, but , OMG, SO PRETTY! The pricing ranged from $15K to 35K, quite a difference! Looked at many, inspected a few locally. Finally found this one on RV Trader. The PO wanted top dollar. He provided us with paperwork that showed the care and modifications the coach had experienced. He'd had it with "coach kickers" and told me the price was what he had in it, and no dickering was allowed. Pretty much sight unseen, I told him we had a deal. When we first saw her, we knew we had found our dream!

In retrospect, being full timers, would I'd have known, I'd have bought JORs 40 footer!

Re: Help on budget to renovate a 96 36' U270

Reply #12 – April 26, 2017, 01:27:35 pm

Agree

Quote from: stump – April 26, 2017, 11:07:02 am

By the time you do all of those Renovations and work on that coach you will be so upside down financially in it. I think you would be far better to take your money by a newer coach that needs nothing has been well maintained and be enjoying it instead of working on it. Jmo

100% with Stump. Those tires are aged out by the way. 6 tires will be over 3K.

Re: Help on budget to renovate a 96 36' U270

Reply #13 – April 26, 2017, 01:34:12 pm

U 295 36' Foretravel for sale

temp

Reply #14 – April 26, 2017, 04:36:46 pm

I would agree with all the other comments to buy a newer FT. Unless you can do most of the work yourself. My coach was cared for really good with all the records. But it was 14 yrs old when I got it. But it was the length and no slide that I wanted. But since ownership I have paid to: replace filters inside, refrigerator, couple of shades, rear monitor, tv, satellite, carpet, Outside air bags, fuel lines, a/c compressor, condenser, air dryer, muffler, water heater, front bulkhead, brakes rear, transmission fluid, radiator flush, replaced all hoses and belts, generator radiator, generator modification, brake air dryer, lift pump. tires 6, coach batteries, frontend alignment, and misc parts and repairs.
Would I do it again, probably. I wish I would have known that the expenses associated with motorhome ownership was significantly higher then what I expected it to be.
Windows from Motion Glass $600 apiece and then the labor to install. If the FT you are looking at is $30000 expect to pay out $60,000. That puts you at $90,000. But I know of not too many motorhomes that are even on the road at 18years.
If you are young and can follow instructions; there is a wealth of information that members will share with you that will save you some money. But it is better to budget high and come in lower than the other way. Good luck.

[moved this post to this topic - it was oddly put in someone's Classified ad thread and didn't belong there - Michelle

Re: Help on budget to renovate a 96 36' U270

Reply #15 – April 26, 2017, 04:40:31 pm

Here is a quick picture of an area we consider complete for us. There are more mods/updates than meet the eye.

1. From the top...all fluorescent and incandescent lights have been replaced.
2. You see two small squares with vents and each has two led lights. These are done to extend AC forward to the driving area. We also wanted the leds as 270s don't have the puck lights.
2a. Forgot to mention the OTA antenna that shows as a faint blue light on the left in front of the vent. Removed the roll up and used the space on top for a 160w panel. Fits opening and footprint of roll up.
3. Looking forward the windshield cover is a Magnashade. Whenever we stop for more than a day or in summer we put it on.
4. The material strip running across under the TV is the bottom of the MCD shade.
5. Over the dash is a dash cover from FOT.
6. On the instrument panel is a Voyager monitor, JVC Sirius radio and an led voltmeter for the starting battery bank which has a 100w panel.
7. The screen door has a pull-up sun shade
8. The driver seat has been reformed with foam
9. Floor is engineered hardwood that matches the honey oak
10. Reworked four button thermostat
11. Sofa and love seat have been redone in ultra leather.
12 TV upgraded and sound bar added

This is one persons remodel. We liked blue and brass and decorated to it not over it. I offer this as one way to note what you are seeing when you shop. Most importantl, everything listed is discretionary. If we can be of any help just drop us a PM. And a note on insurance, we are 65% covered and self insured on the remainder. Happy hunting!

Re: Help on budget to renovate a 96 36' U270

Reply #16 – April 27, 2017, 08:22:59 am

Quote from: George and Steph – April 26, 2017, 01:02:45 pm

We went into this expecting these costs and wanting good bones so we could do it our way.

I understand all the thoughts about buying one already in great shape but for me this quote is an example of the way I like to do things. I will probably end up with more money in it than if I found a coach someone had put a lot of money in then ended up needing to sell. I will also end up with a coach I know intimately as I will have done the majority of the work. I will get to do my updates over time rather than having to put out all the cash at one time. I will get to decide what to fix and what to live with.

I have about 4.5 years to retirement and that will be the time horizon to get the coach to where I want it.

Thank you all for the information, there is a ton of good stuff here.

Matt

Re: Help on budget to renovate a 96 36' U270

Reply #17 – April 27, 2017, 10:46:51 am

Quote from: mattschilds – April 27, 2017, 08:22:59 am

I understand all the thoughts about buying one already in great shape but for me this quote is an example of the way I like to do things. I will probably end up with more money in it than if I found a coach someone had put a lot of money in then ended up needing to sell. I will also end up with a coach I know intimately as I will have done the majority of the work. I will get to do my updates over time rather than having to put out all the cash at one time. I will get to decide what to fix and what to live with.

I have about 4.5 years to retirement and that will be the time horizon to get the coach to where I want it.

Thank you all for the information, there is a ton of good stuff here.

Matt

Like Dave M would say, do what make's happy

Re: Help on budget to renovate a 96 36' U270

Reply #18 – April 27, 2017, 11:37:01 am

You will spend half the $$ if you purchase a coach that has already been upgraded and end up with a better coach in the end. An upgraded coach usually means the owner took a lot of pride in his/her vehicle and did the PM at the right intervals, kept a maintenance record, etc. For a prospective first time new owner to search for a corrosion free vehicle in OEM condition and then upgrade is going to be an very expensive experience. A 1996 U270 is eleven years old now!

Hate to say it but I see a reality check coming up.

Pierce

Re: Help on budget to renovate a 96 36' U270

Reply #19 – April 27, 2017, 11:49:57 am

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – April 27, 2017, 11:37:01 am

A 1996 U270 is eleven years old now!

Actually, 21 years

Re: Help on budget to renovate a 96 36' U270

Reply #20 – April 27, 2017, 11:51:10 am

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – April 27, 2017, 11:37:01 am

Hate to say it but I see a reality check coming up.

Pierce, I hope you are wrong, but you may be spot on.

If I was going to have to pay a shop to do all the work the buying decision would be different. As it is, I would rather do the work and know how it's done.

As to corrosion free, if it's not I will just walk away.
If the motor or transmission doesn't check out I will walk away.

Re: Help on budget to renovate a 96 36' U270

Reply #21 – April 27, 2017, 12:13:43 pm

At 21 years old a 1996 coach can almost sport antique license plates!

This may seem slightly off topic, but based upon comments it got me thinking.

How is anyone going to find that fabulously maintained, well kept and updated Foretravel if current owners aren't willing to put the money into either their current unit, or one they are about to buy? If everyone keeps expecting to reap the benefits of someone else's time and expenses, then these coaches are going to spiral into decay and disrepair.

Due to age at some point working with these old units crosses the line from buying a used RV because it's a less expensive alternative, to restoring a classic RV because you like it and it's still a solid unit.

Lots of people enjoy restoring classic cars. The same negatives can be said for them in terms of costs, effort, return on investment, etc. But people do it because they enjoy it. And by and large people love seeing old, and unique, vehicles on the road in good shape.

How much sense does it make to pay $7K-$10K for an old worn out Airstream, and then sinking $40-$50K into gutting and restoring it? That's as much as a lot of our coaches are selling for! But people do it for themselves, and people love seeing them on the road.

People loved seeing the old Flexible Flyer that Gadget Guru purchased. That old coach didn't get that way by everyone waiting for the next guy to do the work.

Chris

Re: Help on budget to renovate a 96 36' U270

Reply #22 – April 27, 2017, 12:26:08 pm

Quote from: Numbers – April 27, 2017, 12:13:43 pm

At 21 years old a 1996 coach can almost sport antique license plates!

This may seem slightly off topic, but based upon comments it got me thinking.

How is anyone going to find that fabulously maintained, well kept and updated Foretravel if current owners aren't willing to put the money into either their current unit, or one they are about to buy? If everyone keeps expecting to reap the benefits of someone else's time and expenses, then these coaches are going to spiral into decay and disrepair.

Due to age at some point working with these old units crosses the line from buying a used RV because it's a less expensive alternative, to restoring a classic RV because you like it and it's still a solid unit.

Lots of people enjoy restoring classic cars. The same negatives can be said for them in terms of costs, effort, return on investment, etc. But people do it because they enjoy it. And by and large people love seeing old, and unique, vehicles on the road in good shape.

How much sense does it make to pay $7K-$10K for and old worn out Airstream, and then sinking $40-$50K into gutting and restoring it? That's as much as a lot of our coaches are selling for! But people do it for themselves, and people love seeing them on the road.

People loved seeing the old Flexible Flyer that Gadget Guru purchased. That old coach didn't get that way by everyone waiting for the next guy to do the work.

Chris

There is one right here in the classified, as far as a 1996 coach. You're forgetting that most classic car owners and old coach owners do take pride in what they have and put the money and labor in them to keep them that way. And eventually they sell them. The idea is to buy their coaches and old autos not the ones that were run into the ground. You won't find a many 1957 T-Bird's or '66 Corvette's that aren't already in good shape. The same goes for most of the coaches on the Forum. Sooner or later we sell them or our heirs sell them if we drive them to the grave.

Re: Help on budget to renovate a 96 36' U270

Reply #23 – April 27, 2017, 12:27:32 pm

Spot on Chris...my 57 Chevy. It was never about how low could I go but how much would I have in enjoyment and pride of owning what in my opinion is as classic as an Airstream. Great analogy.

Re: Help on budget to renovate a 96 36' U270

Reply #24 – April 27, 2017, 12:31:18 pm

All good advice, do you want to spend next twelve months working on it or actually using it ?
Even a well cared for coach from a forum member will have some maintenance expenses over the next year .
Good luck

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