2003 U320 PPI Questions

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2003 U320 PPI Questions

April 27, 2017, 09:34:36 am

Good morning. This is a terrific community and I look forward to being part of it. This is my first post although I've been reading the forum for about a month during our search and now in preparation for our PPI.

The unit we hope to purchase is an 03 U320T 4220 AGBS, Build 6199.
It has about 63,000 miles and 1,250 Hrs on the generator.

The coach belongs to good friends of my niece and her husband who vouch for the integrity of the seller. It is listed on RVTrader.com 2003 Foretravel U320 4220 PBLB, - - RVtrader.com.

The current owner is the 2nd owner and has had the coach for about 2-1/2 years. Shortly after he purchased it he had FOT go through it to the tune of $14 CB. Included in that work (completed at 56,000 mi. and 750 Gen. Hrs.) was:

Engine fluids and filters
Generator fluids and filters
Tranny switch to Transynd with note to change again in 12k miles (68,000 mi)
Aquahot fuel filter and unit serviced
Awning repairs
Water pump replacement
Toilet leak repairs
Entry door lock repairs
Fuel tank sender R&R
Generator voltage regulator R&R
New front clearance lamps and lenses
Dash A/C repairs with install of new dash control unit / valve
Chassis lube, inspection of hoses, belts, etc.
3x,new starting batteries AGM PX31925C
3x,new house batteries GEL GF12 DF8D
Air compressor pop-off valve R&R
Apply roof sealant
New radio with Bluetooth, Sirius, etc.

All new Michelins in 2015.

Fluids and filters on the engine and generator were done again in 2016 but the NAPA receipts do not show the mileage or hours.

The seller has agreed to deduct the costs of any needed repairs from the purchase price. Brett Wolfe helped me find a qualified inspector and I have a PPI scheduled for Monday in Nac.

QUESTIONS:
I've read a number of the PPI checklists on the forum but would also love to have input on any particular areas or trouble spots to which I should pay attention. As I've been studying the forum I've made a few notes and the two items that keep popping up to my novice eyes are the bulkheads and the airbags. One would hope that FOT checked out both in 2015 but who knows? I've no idea if the airbags are the originals.

Another question is the factory-installed Silverleaf VMS 400 CL unit. Are there some diagnostics I can run on the VMS itself to make sure it is connected and fully operational? Will the VMS be helpful in diagnosing any possible issues with the engine, tranny, etc?

I've attached 2 files: the original "window sticker" and the build sheet showing the installed equipment.

Thanks in advance for your patience with such a long post and for your help!

Mark

Re: 2003 U320 PPI Questions

Reply #1 – April 27, 2017, 04:48:07 pm

Mark,

Congratulations on finding such a great looking coach. I hope the PPI proves all

of your hopes correct. I like seeing someone taking such a thorough attitude about

the purchase. Too many of us get caught up in euphoria of a new to us coach based

on the exterior. It is the interior workings of a coach and not the exterior paint that makes

a good coach. If this is the coach I hope it brings many happy miles and smiles for you.

Carter-

Re: 2003 U320 PPI Questions

Reply #2 – April 27, 2017, 05:08:25 pm

Welcome, and what a nice coach.

I'm not familiar with the SilverLeaf system so this may be a moot point, but see if the inspector has the tools to read the engine hours off the main engine, and compare that with the engine hour readings on the instrument cluster. Sometimes the speedometer/odometers go out and get changed without the mileage being set on the new ones. Verifying engine hours and multiplying by 50, 55, 60, 65 will give you a rough idea of the "miles" (hours includes idle time) on the engine and allow you to see if the stated miles on the current speedometer/odometer makes sense. If it's way off then either the speedometer/odometer has been changed, or previous owners idled the engine for a long time. In which case doing your initial round of service based upon hours may be better that service based upon miles. Because of weight and age these rigs are often exempt from mileage disclosure on vehicle registration.

See if the inspector has the tools to do a pressure test of the main engine radiator and the generator radiator. Most likely they are good, but it's a good time to check and know for sure what you are starting with.

Chris

Re: 2003 U320 PPI Questions

Reply #3 – April 27, 2017, 05:54:18 pm

Quote from: Texas Guy – April 27, 2017, 04:48:07 pm

Mark,

... If this is the coach I hope it brings many happy miles and smiles for you.

Carter-

Thanks, Carter! I appreciate the good wishes. Knowing the seller through family helps take some of the worry out of the deal, but we will see what the PPI reveals!

Mark

Re: 2003 U320 PPI Questions

Reply #4 – April 27, 2017, 05:57:13 pm

Quote from: Numbers – April 27, 2017, 05:08:25 pm

Welcome, and what a nice coach.

...Verifying engine hours and multiplying by 50, 55, 60, 65 will give you a rough idea of the "miles" (hours includes idle time) on the engine and allow you to see if the stated miles on the current speedometer/odometer makes sense.

See if the inspector has the tools to do a pressure test of the main engine radiator and the generator radiator. Most likely they are good, but it's a good time to check and know for sure what you are starting with.

Chris

Chris,

All great ideas and added to my list of things to check!

Thanks,
Mark

Re: 2003 U320 PPI Questions

Reply #5 – April 27, 2017, 06:02:38 pm

Is the misalignment of the generator cover to the lower front cap section cause for concern?

Re: 2003 U320 PPI Questions

Reply #6 – April 27, 2017, 06:04:36 pm

Quote from: Mark Duckworth – April 27, 2017, 06:02:38 pm

Is the misalignment of the generator cover to the lower front cap section cause for concern?

You need to look at the structure and struts behind the door itself. If a strut failed in the past or the mounting bent (that cover is HEAVY and if the struts failed it might cause something to bend if it came crashing down), it could explain what you see.

It should be repairable if that's all it is.

Re: 2003 U320 PPI Questions

Reply #7 – April 27, 2017, 06:06:09 pm

I would say so.! Prior work on Genny track..??

MHO

H

Re: 2003 U320 PPI Questions

Reply #8 – April 27, 2017, 06:10:49 pm

Quote from: Mark Duckworth – April 27, 2017, 09:34:36 am

As I've been studying the forum I've made a few notes and the two items that keep popping up to my novice eyes are the bulkheads and the airbags. One would hope that FOT checked out both in 2015 but who knows? I've no idea if the airbags are the originals.

Don't assume - it's highly doubtful unless they were specifically asked to check. And even if they did, things can change - get a fresh opinion from a reliable source.

Airbags are most likely original. We replaced tag and front on our 2003 in 2014 - tags ended up having pretty big leaks, fronts were heavily checked. Ride improved. We had drive replaced in 2015.

Saddlesore had all his replaced on his 2002 in Nac this year. Depending on storage, this coach may be due. It might be difficult to see if the tag bags are leaking since they are at an angle. Best bet is to budget for it.

Re: 2003 U320 PPI Questions

Reply #9 – April 27, 2017, 06:20:38 pm

Quote from: Michelle – April 27, 2017, 06:04:36 pm

Re: the generator cover: "You need to look at the structure and struts behind the door itself"...

and

Re: the airbags: ..."get a fresh opinion from a reliable source.... Best bet is to budget for it."

Michelle,

Will do! Added both to the list.

Mark

Re: 2003 U320 PPI Questions

Reply #10 – April 27, 2017, 06:25:37 pm

Another thought, Mark. Shocks are probably original, too, if there isn't any record of them being replaced. If they are orange/red, they are Koni adjustables. They're OK, but many of us swapped out for the Koni FSDs and it really improved the ride. These will be gold colored shocks. A highly recommended upgrade to add to your plan.

Re: 2003 U320 PPI Questions

Reply #11 – April 27, 2017, 09:13:38 pm

Since we bought our 2003 U320 last year I have had to replace the radiator and have the rear bulkhead rebuilt along with many small items that I have fixed myself. Our coach's PO had the Aqua Hot were replaced a few years ago along with the Dometic refer's cooling unit.So I would advise paying special attention to the items I have listed.
Also, I would advise that the inspector be very careful checking for air leaks. The slide room air bladders are known to fail and are pretty expensive to replace. Also make sure the HWH air leveling system is working as designed.
Unless it has been upgraded be aware that the OEM satellite system (TracStar?) Is obsolete,

Along with all of the items mentioned in the previous posts I think you will have a good idea of what to look for.

We budgeted $10K for repairs and burned through that in the first year. These are great coaches but at 14 years of age they will need some love. We have not regretted any of the $$$ we have spent so far.

I hope to see you in your new to you Foretravel soon!

Re: 2003 U320 PPI Questions

Reply #12 – April 27, 2017, 09:56:16 pm

Steve and Sandy,

Just added radiator, rear bulkhead, Aqua Hot, refer's cooling unit, general air leaks, slide room air bladders and HWH air leveling system to the list. Like you I'm hoping to do many of the small to medium repairs myself both to lower costs and because I enjoy the hands on time.

For many years I was a member of a forum and interest group not unlike this one except we were interested in maintaining and driving older Mercedes automobile. I love the camaraderie and cordiality I see here.

Thanks for the heads up and look forward to meeting y'all too!

Mark

Re: 2003 U320 PPI Questions

Reply #13 – April 27, 2017, 10:17:08 pm

Quote from: Mark Duckworth – April 27, 2017, 09:56:16 pm

Just added radiator, rear bulkhead, Aqua Hot, refer's cooling unit, general air leaks, slide room air bladders and HWH air leveling system to the list.

2003 slide bladders - look for the flap/guide to be present and correct in each slide per Dan's post "Normal service" and Slide Bladder replacement, Old Town MotorCoach Nac

Re: 2003 U320 PPI Questions

Reply #14 – April 27, 2017, 10:57:37 pm

Thanks, Michelle! bladder flap/guides added to the list.

Y'all's knowledge of these coaches is just amazing.

Mark

Re: 2003 U320 PPI Questions

Reply #15 – April 28, 2017, 07:15:44 am

Mark, there is a self-PDI checklist on the Forum, easy search to find it. May help. I would hire an inspection though if it were me.

I mention two technical things that I am not sure others have yet noted.....and would pay particular attention to anything Michelle tells you about a 2003. Generally owners of the model coach you are considering are among the most knowledgable and in this case she and Steve are at the top. Wish you could see the one they sold!

That said, the bulkheads should be checked. It is not a simple visual inspection nor one of checking bolt torque. The prior owner can easily and truthfully think they are fine and just not know. I have seen this be a problem at least up to the 2004 model and even one 2005 but that one was a strange situation.

Secondly, check the end caps. There can be a factory record if those were repaired back at the factory, or they may have no problem. You may see this from the side, up high, but good to get up on top.

Like everyone, we all wish you well. But avoiding expensive surprises now can make a more pleasant purchase. Neither of the two items I noted would be a deal killer, but the expenses should be known if repairs needed.

Re: 2003 U320 PPI Questions

Reply #16 – April 28, 2017, 08:02:35 am

X2 regarding what Mike said about hiring an inspector! I regret that I did not take the time and spend a +/- $1000.00 to have an expert look at our coach before we pulled the trigger. Sadly, I didn't know what I didn't know😯

Probably would have still bought the coach we did, but I would have been in a much better bargaining position with a detailed inspection report in hand. I'm pretty confident that you will recoup the inspection cost if only by having peace of mind.

Steve

Re: 2003 U320 PPI Questions

Reply #17 – April 28, 2017, 08:58:58 am

Mike -- thanks for the input. I'll do a search on the endcaps to learn more about the issues and in the meantime have added endcaps and made sure the bulkheads are on my list of items to have checked during the PPI.

Mark

Re: 2003 U320 PPI Questions

Reply #18 – April 28, 2017, 09:01:26 am

Steve and Sandy,

Great advice on hiring an inspector! We're meeting the current owners in Nac on Monday to have the PPI done.

Thanks,
Mark

Re: 2003 U320 PPI Questions

Reply #19 – April 28, 2017, 09:45:42 am

Mark if need inspector in Nac send me pm with phone number. There is a process here, i can explain or try get Brett

Re: 2003 U320 PPI Questions

Reply #20 – April 28, 2017, 10:04:16 am

With regard to alignment on the generator door, ask if they hit a deer and had the door replaced. It looks to be a brighter white than the rest of the front (per the picture). It should be correctable. Ours is not aligned properly right now either. If I cannot figure it out I may end up at Extreme next time I am down that way. The body shop in northern Indiana that installed the new door was not able to align it properly.

Re: 2003 U320 PPI Questions

Reply #21 – April 28, 2017, 10:51:43 am

Quote from: Michael & Jackie – April 28, 2017, 09:45:42 am

Mark if need inspector in Nac send me pm with phone number. There is a process here, i can explain or try get Brett

Mike - he already has an inspector through Brett. See the first post.

Quote

Brett Wolfe helped me find a qualified inspector and I have a PPI scheduled for Monday in Nac.

Re: 2003 U320 PPI Questions

Reply #22 – April 28, 2017, 11:56:20 am

Quote from: Michael & Jackie – April 28, 2017, 07:15:44 am

Mark, there is a self-PDI checklist on the Forum, easy search to find it. May help. I would hire an inspection though if it were me.

I mention two technical things that I am not sure others have yet noted.....and would pay particular attention to anything Michelle tells you about a 2003. Generally owners of the model coach you are considering are among the most knowledgable and in this case she and Steve are at the top. Wish you could see the one they sold!

That said, the bulkheads should be checked. It is not a simple visual inspection nor one of checking bolt torque. The prior owner can easily and truthfully think they are fine and just not know. I have seen this be a problem at least up to the 2004 model and even one 2005 but that one was a strange situation.

Secondly, check the end caps. There can be a factory record if those were repaired back at the factory, or they may have no problem. You may see this from the side, up high, but good to get up on top.

Like everyone, we all wish you well. But avoiding expensive surprises now can make a more pleasant purchase. Neither of the two items I noted would be a deal killer, but the expenses should be known if repairs needed.

Good advice--With this age, cap seals can be bad. Along with roof seam seals, my 01 bought in Dec and delivered to Az just discovered skin seals are all bad. Arrived in very wet N/W 2 weeks ago and discovered drip from rear heat pump. This morning discovered water around rear compartment from cap seals separating and down most of the roof cap. Appears that a full cap seal project is needed, hopefully not too much water has soaked in.

Good luck with your new beauty. Our previous unit was a 96 Foretravel, 4 years with no issues like any of these you are inspecting. This one is becoming a nightmare range of issues on an otherwise well kept 1 owner unit.

Re: 2003 U320 PPI Questions

Reply #23 – April 28, 2017, 01:32:08 pm

Quote from: Ed W – April 28, 2017, 10:04:16 am

With regard to alignment on the generator door, ask if they hit a deer and had the door replaced.

Ed,

I'll do that. I hadn't noticed that the color was off. They live in the Texas hill country and deer are very plentiful there.

Thanks,
Mark

Re: 2003 U320 PPI Questions

Reply #24 – April 28, 2017, 01:35:33 pm

Quote from: rfrum – April 28, 2017, 11:56:20 am

...With this age, cap seals can be bad. Along with roof seam seals...
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quote]

Ralph & Sandy,

Thanks for the advice on the cap and roof seals. I'll make sure that's carefully checked. I hope that your current unit settles down soon and turns into a more dependable experience.

Mark

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