Just Got Our First Foretravel - Renovations Started

Topic: Just Got Our First Foretravel - Renovations Started (Read 6883 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Just Got Our First Foretravel - Renovations Started

Reply #50 – July 04, 2017, 04:51:10 pm

Geezz, Alchemist...I'm exhausted just reading your "fixedit" list!

Good job. You'll feel much more comfortable in your coach with these issues resolved to your satisfaction. (As opposed to waiting for them to manifest themselves at a much more inconvenient opportunity.)

Have a great Fourth.

Re: Just Got Our First Foretravel - Renovations Started

Reply #51 – July 16, 2017, 11:02:42 pm

More progress these last two weeks.
-New fuel filter,
-New fuel pump,
-Cut fuel line and adjusted it so it is not longer partially kinked
-new spark plugs
-new wires
-new cap
-new rotor
-Radiator flushed (by a professional, not me)
-new thermostat (also installed by the pro)

Discovered that he Radiator overflow tank is actually just and overflow tank. Radiator fluid can come out of the radiator and go into the overflow tank... but can not get back into the radiator from there. Hence, the fill line on that tank is not an indication of how much fluid is in the radiator. Have to pop the cap to see that. And mine had only about 1.5 gallons. Took 4 gallons when refilled. Figure this explains at least part of the issues with it getting warm.

Re: Just Got Our First Foretravel - Renovations Started

Reply #52 – July 17, 2017, 08:17:09 am

Quote from: AKATheAlchemist – July 16, 2017, 11:02:42 pm

Discovered that he Radiator overflow tank is actually just and overflow tank. Radiator fluid can come out of the radiator and go into the overflow tank... but can not get back into the radiator from there.

Without looking at your radiator cap, there's no way to be sure, but usually the overflow reservoir system allows "2-way" flow between tank and radiator. When the coolant gets hot, it expands in volume, and the excess pushes a spring loaded valve in the radiator cap open, which allows coolant to pass into the overflow tank. Then when the radiator cools, the coolant contracts in volume which makes a vacuum (negative pressure) in the radiator. The radiator cap "return" valve opens, and coolant is sucked out of the overflow tank and back into the radiator. In this way, the radiator is always kept full, air pockets in the cooling system are reduced or eliminated, and the engine is happy. With this setup, the side of the overflow tank has a low (cold) mark and a high (hot) mark. Any loss of coolant in the system (leaks) will be evident by a change in the "normal" level in the overflow tank.

That's how the system is supposed to work. If yours isn't doing that, perhaps you have the incorrect radiator cap. The cap should have a spring-loaded valve on the underside that you can move open and closed. It should also have a "pressure rating" printed on the cap. The spring valves come in different tensions, and they control how much pressure builds in the radiator when it is hot.

Re: Just Got Our First Foretravel - Renovations Started

Reply #53 – July 17, 2017, 08:26:47 am

Chuck is correct on how it should work IF, repeat IF the radiator is full.

But, if there is enough air volume in the radiator itself, it will absorb the "rise" in coolant level. All that will be pushed out when the pressure reaches that of the radiator cap is AIR.

Poster child for low coolant in the radiator is an overflow bottle that does not change level cold vs hot!

Re: Just Got Our First Foretravel - Renovations Started

Reply #54 – July 17, 2017, 08:42:03 am

To add to the radiator cap issue all pressure caps have the spring and the rubber seal at the bottom. Recovery caps have an additional rubber right at the bottom of the cap face. Without the additional rubber seal it will not pull vacuum.

Re: Just Got Our First Foretravel - Renovations Started

Reply #55 – July 17, 2017, 09:34:37 am

Quote from: craneman – July 17, 2017, 08:42:03 am

Recovery caps have an additional rubber right at the bottom of the cap face.

Correctamundo! Diagram of generic recovery-type radiator cap:

Re: Just Got Our First Foretravel - Renovations Started

Reply #56 – July 17, 2017, 09:46:03 am

There is certainly a pressure cap on the raditor. It does send fluid to the tank if it gets hot. But it looks physically impossible for it to pull fluid back into the tank. The hose is at the top of the tank. If the cap were to put a vacuum on that line... all it would pull back is air. The fluid is at the bottom of the tank. If that makes sense.

Re: Just Got Our First Foretravel - Renovations Started

Reply #57 – July 17, 2017, 09:57:14 am

Makes perfect sense! The original (correct) overflow tank could have been replaced with a incorrect tank. Simple to remedy - the tanks are sold at almost every auto parts store. Look for a tank with the return hose port on the bottom of the tank, or on some really simple ones, the hose goes in the plastic "fill" cap and hangs down to the bottom of the tank.

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/dorman-oe-solutions-3387/cooling---heating-16773/coolant-recovery-tank---universal-17482/engine-coolant-reservoir/603001/4250977

Re: Just Got Our First Foretravel - Renovations Started

Reply #58 – July 17, 2017, 10:36:58 am

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – July 17, 2017, 09:34:37 am

Correctamundo! Diagram of generic recovery-type radiator cap:

In the diagram upper spring seal, (upper left hand corner) is the additional seal for recovery. Nowadays almost all caps have them but back in the day they looked like the one on the right without the seal. Look at the cavity for the recovery it needs 2 seals

Re: Just Got Our First Foretravel - Renovations Started

Reply #59 – July 17, 2017, 08:34:07 pm

The overflow tank will not improve cooling. A good 13# cap with a good seal surface will keep the coolant proper ly pressured . The overflow tube system merely pulls the coolant back in on cool down . To make your system a recovery system , extend the overflow hose to the bottom of the tank. Make sure that the cap has the upper small seal, in addition to the large outer seal .
If it has run fine all these years , you may be wasting your effort. IMHO. Why mess with success?

Re: Just Got Our First Foretravel - Renovations Started

Reply #60 – July 17, 2017, 11:03:26 pm

Quote from: Protech Racing – July 17, 2017, 08:34:07 pm

If it has run fine all these years , you may be wasting your effort. IMHO. Why mess with success?

Since the OP discovered that his (over-heating) engine only contained 1.5 gallons of coolant, and it took 4 gallons to refill it, I would say that his coach certainly could have benefitted from a recovery type expansion tank and cap. I don't think adding one will be a waste of effort, especially considering the low cost and simplicity of the upgrade.

Re: Just Got Our First Foretravel - Renovations Started

Reply #61 – July 20, 2017, 09:48:54 pm

Quote from: wantabe – May 14, 2017, 09:39:06 am

I'm working on a similar project, on a p30 chassis 454 chevy/gmc. I replaced the starter and added a heat shield. I have an engine heat issue so am also replacing the fan clutch and adding an electric radiator fan. I'm also adding solar on top. Are we having fun yet?

wantabe

Pay real close attention to the wiring loom on the left frame rail going past the exhaust manifold....The tie backs used get brittle and break then the manifold melts all the wires....not a fun thing to have happen when pulling a grade, 60 miles from nowhere.
The other thing to be aware of is that around '98 to '01 the p-30 front brake calipers had a plastic piston to work the calipers.. the plastic would wear and then cock & jamb so brakes would drag or lock up..

happy trails

Re: Just Got Our First Foretravel - Renovations Started

Reply #62 – July 20, 2017, 10:04:20 pm

Sorry Chuck, I did not see that it got hot. I just read the first trip that said it ran well.
If There is room for some sealing the edges and or shrouding the rad, it gets better. Also check the ignition timing as the P30 /rat can get hot by being ahead just a couple degrees. If it pings, back it off two, untill it stops .
Pinging can often be reduced by a cool air intake for the intake. The stock sysytem works OK with the inlet snorkle opened up. ( Banks style) and a tube to the front of the grille. 4in plastic works fine .
You can also go to a flex fan with solid driver. makes a little noise but cools well .

Re: Just Got Our First Foretravel - Renovations Started

Reply #63 – July 20, 2017, 11:42:45 pm

Shoot me a pictures of how the shrouds align with the fan tips front and back. Lots of simple 10-20% improvements possible.

Re: Just Got Our First Foretravel - Renovations Started

Reply #64 – July 21, 2017, 09:37:39 pm

Just a comment as I know there are a few "unbelievers" out there.Years ago a friend had a class c with the Ford 460,had a
overheating problem,on my advice he switched to Amsoil 0w30 ,that alone cured the problem and yes I did use the coach once
and that is all he did to it at the time.

Re: Just Got Our First Foretravel - Renovations Started

Reply #65 – July 23, 2017, 09:41:05 am

Water wetter, may help cooling, reduces surface tension of water molecules just like dish soap. Some racers use it. Not sure if it can be mixed with antifreeze.

Re: Just Got Our First Foretravel - Renovations Started

Reply #66 – September 22, 2017, 11:53:52 pm

@John44 - Thanks! I'll try that. Got a leak I've got to get fixed before I put expensive oil in it.

Re: Just Got Our First Foretravel - Renovations Started

Reply #67 – September 23, 2017, 12:45:10 am

Okay @Everyone-Following.

It's been a few months since my last post... we traveled a bunch in the coach. Went all the way up to Sacramento and back down through Yosemite with it. We're now down in San Diego again.

Trip was awesome... got a lot more fixed... and a lot more broken.

So since last update...

Things that broke:
-The old Dometic RM 3800 died, completely. No saving it. Ripped it out. Put in a cheap walmart fridge to get us through until we can buy the right replacement. Pretty sure it'll be the Dometic RM2862 or RM2852.

-The old water pump died. Had this on the replacement list anyways... but it finally gave up the ghost. Pulled it out... it was the original form 1986... surprised it worked as long as it did. Replaced it with a new sureflow. Works great.

-Propane detector (also original) bit the dust. Replaced with a new one... but the new ones don't have solenoid shut off switches built in... and we have a solenoid shut off on the tank. So... had to build a manual switch and installed it into the cabinet next to the new detector. Kind of cool to have a manual switch that turns the gas on or off at the tank.

Not to bad... that's it on the things that broke list.

Things that didn't do well:
-The engine still overheats going up hills. Any hills. All hills. It hates hills. A lot. It'll go for about 4-5 miles up a hill... and it warms up the whole way... then starts getting too hot. It goes very quickly from hot to radiator fluid boiling to losing power and shutting off. Just a few moments really from too hot to dead. But on the plus side... if you get to the top of the hill before it gets to hot... it cools right down quick. We overheated twice on the way up to Yosemite. Had to wait on the side of the mountain pass for several hours each time for the radiator to cool off. And once while sitting in traffic on flat road on the way back down to so cal... sat for 20 minutes idling... it didn't overheat exactly... but it didn't have any power when we started moving again. Had to pull off on the side of the road and let it sit. This is the most frustrating issue and I wish I knew how to solve it.

-coming down the mountain from Yosemite the brakes got too hot. We were only doing 20mph down the hill and the engine did a good job of keep it at that speed, but all the brake tapping still boiled the brake fluid by the time we got to the bottom. The brake started "fading" (that's what the mechanic called it), when we got on flat ground. I stopped it and had it towed to an RV shop. They said we basically just needed to upgrade from Dot 3 to Dot 4 Fluid. Other than that our brake system was fine. There was one blockage in the back right... possibly caused by the overheating. But the brake system is great now.

Things We've Fixed/Upgraded:
-The water heater is finally working! It wasn't working because of the Gas Solenoid valve. Replaced that and it was off to the races (or the hot showers). the mounting bracket on the new one was off by 1/4 of an inch. Had to drill a new hole in it to make it all better. It is seriously nice to have hot water in the coach.

-Added an electric conversion kit to the water heater. So now we have both gas and electric. Electric is nice cause we aren't paying electric as most resorts where we stay. Had to get a 110 plug for the water heater, didn't have one close by... so I cut the power to the non-functional blender and built a power plug box under the cabinet just for the water heater.

-We finally got to the floor! We pulled up all the carpet on the floor and the wood in the kitchen... replaced it with Vynal tiles. Looks fantastic! We love it a whole lot. Plus we got the venal on sale like 75% off at HD for .96/sqft. It was a steal. Cost more in tools to do the work than the floor cost us. Taking up the carpet was a royal pain in the ass... mostly because whoever put it in was staple gun happy. And the wood floor came up nicely... but man... there was like 1/2" of glue under there. Took several days to get sanded down. Now we just have to figure out what to do about the carpet on the walls and in the captains area.

-Yesterday, I finally got around to getting the correct batteries in the coach. We had two high cold cranking amp car batteries. Now we just have one car battery for the chassis and two lifeline 6 volt 220 amp hour AMG batteries. I have room for two more. Which would give us 440 amps. That'd be pretty awesome. But I think I'll put an inverter/solar on before I buy more batteries. But either way... we can finally attempt to boondock a little bit. Probably a day or two with our two batteries (especially now that it's cooler and we don't need AC 24/7. I still think our battery bank is wired in-correctly too. I'm not really sure though... but our master switch seems to have power at both ends and doesn't shut power off when switched off. The charge boost solenoid does work, but if you disconnect the chasis battery... everything including the engine starter still have power. If you disconnect the house batteries, everything including the engine starter still have power. I can't imagine that's correct. So I'm looking into that... gotta figure out what it's supposed to be and fix it.

-This week I finally got around to the entertainment system too. Mounted a bit larger television under the old square tv box. It fold up for driving. Put in a dvd player and mounted our apple tv. And an HDMI switcher and remote. There is no AC power up there though... So for the moment I've just got an extension cord running up the wall (that's ugly and no-one wants ugly). So I'll be running some AC wire through the wall up there and plugging into the AC wiring that's under the dash. Yay for plugs in the overhead compartments!

-More on the tech side... I bought and installed a Cell phone signal booster. The box is in a cabinet in the master. And the antenna is mounted to the old wine guard antenna pole. I pulled of the tv antenna (cause we don't use it and it was all cracked and falling apart) and mounted the booster antenna to it. Now we can rase and lower our cell booster... very cool. Plus I didn't have to drill holes in the roof to pass the cables through... I could use the existing tv antenna cables. I just bypassed the tv booster with a simple male to male plug and it worked great. Left everything intact as well and labeled it all so the next owner of this coach could switch it back with ease.

-I also just purchased a router for the coach... a Pepwave SoHo Mrk 3. It's awesome. Let's me connect to camp wifi. Connect to a cell hot spot... or anything else I want really and broadcast that signal in the coach. The kids are super excited to have internet access again. And to be able to use the Apple TV. And most importantly... Home is where the Wifi connects automatically... and ours now does that in the coach. Makes it feel very much like home. Plus, the wifi printer now is usable again and my wife can print worksheets for homeschool again. Very good.

-OH! Almost forgot, we redid all off the curtains again. Took out the residential curtain rods we had put up... cause they sucked. And put in the i-beam ones. And had my wife split each window's curtain down the middle and put magnets in. So now we can open the curtains up more easily and they stay nicely closed at night with nice magnetic clasps.

-One last thing on upgrades... and overheating. I was reading on some forums about the 454 and overheating issues. I found several people who recommended putting in a mister system in front of the radiator... cause it can drop the air temp almost 20 degrees. So I tapped into the water system under the sink and ran a pipe up to the engine bay with a valve by the drivers seat. And put 6 misters in front of the radiator. Now when I come up to hills... I can kick on the water pump and open the valve... misters on the radiator. Haven't overheated to boiling since. But it does still get hot on longer hills. At the moment, I'm cleaning things with vinegar/water solution after the drive, but I've got a soft-water filter in the mail and I'll have soft water in the coach and available for my engine misters shortly.

So, what's next?
-Probably the refrigerator replacement (cause the wal-mart one is sitting on the floor of the shelf that wasn't designed to be weight bearing... cause the fridge that's supposed to be in there is mounted to the front wall of the cabinet.).
-Then an inverter. Considering the GoPower 2000 Watt inverter/charger. Since it'll work with the 50 amp service. Will replace a few things under the bed so there will be room for it. And it should have enough power to run everything in the coach off of our new batter bank.
-I've got all new pop-locks for the storage doors on the way.
-I'm hoping to get the couple of fiber glass things on the outside fixed next week.
-Then we will get it buffed, waxed, and new decals. Should look sweet.
-I need to do something with the engine too... but I'm not sure what at this point. I need more horse power I think for going up hills... I think that'd help the overheating issue. Considering a fuel injection upgrade. Considering an overdrive upgrade. I'll probably start a new thread here for discussion on what I should do to make this engine sing.
-I need to get the oil leak fixed. It's slow... but it's enough that I need to add a quart+ of oil every month. Hopeing it's the front main seal and it's an easy fix.
-I'd love to get the engine to a point where it could tow a small suv and not die... I feel like right now it'd die. So at the moment, the wife (and the kids... cause they like her better, lol) drive in our car separate from the RV on travel days. But with the severe lack of power on hills... adding a car to the mix wouldn't help.

I've got pictures of the floor.. I'll see if I can figure out how to attach them...

Re: Just Got Our First Foretravel - Renovations Started

Reply #68 – September 23, 2017, 12:57:57 am

AHA! I figured out the pictures (I think...).

First couple of picture are of the new floor. And my wife helping pull floor up from under the couch (lol). Then there is the new entertainment system stuff.

The rest are just pics of the coach in cool places, my wonderful family, my new office chair (the one in front of the lake - #WheresYourOfficeChair)... and some random shots from our trip.

Re: Just Got Our First Foretravel - Renovations Started

Reply #69 – September 23, 2017, 07:22:17 am

I did a similar TV arraignment. But I removed the original TV Box and saved the vinyl covering. Took wood and made a frame for the TV mount to attach too. This really opened up the windshield view when driving. And eliminated me banging my head on the darned thing! I used the vinyl to make a cover to finish the opening.
TV and Audio

Re: Just Got Our First Foretravel - Renovations Started

Reply #70 – September 23, 2017, 09:30:52 am

Great photos of your crew! Close-up of the youngest is a keeper, for sure. Also, interesting to see the side view of your coach showing the tag axle. I guess I've never come across a photo of that particular GV chassis configuration, with a tag on a short wheelbase.

You've done a LOT of work so far. I don't know what your budget looks like, but if it was me and I wanted to improve the engine power situation, I would seriously consider upgrading the engine. Driving a under-powered, over-heating RV must be just plain miserable. If you want to stay with gasoline fueled, there are some excellent crate motors available these days, for pretty reasonable prices. In your case, I think something like the GM HT502 would work very well. Lots of low end torque - runs on "regular" pump gas. It should bolt right into your gasser chassis without any big hassles.

I think one of our members, earlier in this thread, suggested the possibility of swapping to a diesel engine. That would be another way to go.

The "engine swap" concept is simple, but of course the devil is in the details.

If you do think about going this route, do some research first. Prices on these engines can be pretty variable, depending on where you buy them, and who would do the swap. Anyway, just something to think about. Good luck with your project!

HT502 Big Block Crate Engine | Chevrolet Performance

Chevrolet Performance 88890534 - HT502 Crate Engine - 406HP

Re: Just Got Our First Foretravel - Renovations Started

Reply #71 – September 23, 2017, 12:11:06 pm

For the overheating, misters on the radiator is very practical solution for your situation. I wouldn't be afraid to install more if you need more cooling. You can tell if you are wasting water if it doesn't get a chance to evaporate when it exits the radiator. The soft water filter is a very good idea. Forgetting to turn the water off is a problem I have had. Amazon sells cheap 12 volts solenoid valves that you can replace the manual valve with and you can wire a big indicator light in parallel with the solenoid to help remember to turn it off.
Glad to see you are using the coach and having fun.

Re: Just Got Our First Foretravel - Renovations Started

Reply #72 – September 23, 2017, 12:23:04 pm

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – September 23, 2017, 09:30:52 am

Great photos of your crew! Close-up of the youngest is a keeper, for sure....

Thank's! We think she's cute.

We do love the look of our coach. Can't wait to get the decals and buffing done so she shines.

The overheating is miserable... but it should be fixable.

So I've researched the diesel swaps... and it seems like it'd be a ton of work since everything needs to be changed including wiring and dashboard and the generator. So it's 'spensive for a coach that won't recoup that value.

The engine upgrades on the other hand should be much better. I have been looking at replacing the engine with a crate engine like you suggested... but the engine in there only have 45K on it. So I feel like I should be able to do some upgrades to it as it sits to get the power I want/need out of it. Maybe no though. I don't know enough about engines to make a good decision there.

I think the overheating might be related to the electric fans not working properly... but I don't know how to test those yet. They work... since I can hear them kick on... but they don't seem do to so consistently. I think I'll start a new post just on that topic and start collecting ideas.

Re: Just Got Our First Foretravel - Renovations Started

Reply #73 – September 23, 2017, 12:23:51 pm

Quote from: stump – September 23, 2017, 07:22:17 am

I did a similar TV arraignment. But I removed the original TV Box and saved the vinyl covering. Took wood and made a frame for the TV mount to attach too. This really opened up the windshield view when driving. And eliminated me banging my head on the darned thing! I used the vinyl to make a cover to finish the opening.
TV and Audio

Not gonna lie... that's pretty brilliant. I think I'll do that when I'm up at my step-dad's house next time. He's got all the wood working gear. Would make it much nicer than my arrangement.

Re: Just Got Our First Foretravel - Renovations Started

Reply #74 – September 23, 2017, 12:24:46 pm

Quote from: JohnFitz – September 23, 2017, 12:11:06 pm

For the overheating, misters on the radiator is very practical solution for your situation. I wouldn't be afraid to install more if you need more cooling. You can tell if you are wasting water if it doesn't get a chance to evaporate when it exits the radiator. The soft water filter is a very good idea. Forgetting to turn the water off is a problem I have had. Amazon sells cheap 12 volts solenoid valves that you can replace the manual valve with and you can wire a big indicator light in parallel with the solenoid to help remember to turn it off.
Glad to see you are using the coach and having fun.

I thought it was pretty brilliant myself.

And it seems to be working pretty well. Forgetting to turn off the water is a problem... lol. Does that mean you added the misters on yours?

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