Pros and Cons of Tandem (Tag) Axles

Topic: Pros and Cons of Tandem (Tag) Axles (Read 1105 times) previous topic - next topic

Pros and Cons of Tandem (Tag) Axles

June 02, 2017, 09:06:46 am

So, we're strongly considering stepping up a bit in the Foretravel line from our 96 U295. More use means a slide would be a plus, and considering units that are 36-40. I'm wondering if the tandem axle is the way to go, and would appreciate opinions of you sages.

We don't tend to carry a lot of extra weight but would like capacity at least close to our 36' coach. It is typically fairly lightly loaded in comparison to some I've read about.
I understand the tandems drive somewhat better than the single axles? That said, I've done my own tweaks on suspension and am really happy with driveability of the 36.
All things equal, would a 40 single axle tend to (straight line) drive better than a 36?
The extra tire cost, maintenance, lost storage below is not an issue for us.

What am I overlooking, and what would you do if purchasing a long term coach? Thanks, Chuck

[added word "Tag" to topic title since most folks refer to these as tag axles, not "tandem" axles - Michelle]

Re: Pros and Cons of Tandem (Tag) Axles

Reply #1 – June 02, 2017, 09:13:35 am

Chuck,

You're in a 295 right now which has a much lighter drivetrain.

Move to a 40 foot U320 with the 450 or 500 ISM and 4000 series transmission and add slides and that adds a lot of weight to the coach itself. All tile flooring also adds a lot of weight.

IIRC, FT started using tag axles on the 40 footers (and some 38 footers) when they added the bedroom slide to the U320 models due to weight concerns.

You will give up some basement storage with a tag. You will also give up some basement storage with slides.

If you find a non-tag coach you like, be SURE to get actual scale weights before committing.

Re: Pros and Cons of Tandem (Tag) Axles

Reply #2 – June 02, 2017, 09:37:55 am

I agree Michelle. My 40 single slide was weighed at Granvention in Seiverville and I had about 2,700 lbs remaining load I could put in coach or basement Black and gray empty, diesel 120 gal, fresh water full Was 225 pounds heavier on driver front w/o a front seat passenger I was happy.

Tag on 40 significantly reduces basement storage

Re: Pros and Cons of Tandem (Tag) Axles

Reply #3 – June 02, 2017, 09:40:36 am

Quote from: Michelle – June 02, 2017, 09:13:35 am

You will give up some basement storage with a tag. You will also give up some basement storage with slides.

If you find a non-tag coach you like, be SURE to get actual scale weights before committing.

Thank you Michelle and Tim. Ah. Hadn't considered the double whammy of slide + tag regarding basement storage.

I have wondered about the weight of some of the single axle coaches. It would be nice to have "some" cargo capacity.

Seems like every time I start down this road I come to the conclusion that it's probably better to stick with the devil I know, maybe it's upgrade time. Mesquite flooring, nice paint, lots of room for improvement, less $ than replacement, don't care about recovering upgrade costs.

But, I want to think this thing through. The slide would be nice....

Re: Pros and Cons of Tandem (Tag) Axles

Reply #4 – June 02, 2017, 09:40:54 am

We never thought we would want a slide in a coach ... just something else to go wrong. We were very happy full-timing in a 40' U320 non slide ... until I realized that there were some things that I wanted that could not be remodeled in or out of the coach. So, we began looking and found every thing I wanted (because it IS all about me, don'cha know) in a 40' U320 single slide w/tag. I had all the storage I needed, and more ... even with losing some bay storage and some upper cabinet storage in the interior slide section. We lived in that unit for almost 5 years and the slide gave us very little cause for concern. I was never a huge fan of driving the coach ... rest stop to rest stop in an Interstate was my preference ... but in my opinion, the tag did make it track very nicely going down the road. We took that coach ('02) to all kinds of places, and actually could get into some smaller sites than with the former ('95) because the wheel base was shorter. FWIW

Re: Pros and Cons of Tandem (Tag) Axles

Reply #5 – June 02, 2017, 10:38:49 am

Quote from: Chuck Pearson – June 02, 2017, 09:40:36 am

Thank you Michelle and Tim. Ah. Hadn't considered the double whammy of slide + tag regarding basement storage.

I have wondered about the weight of some of the single axle coaches. It would be nice to have "some" cargo capacity.

But, I want to think this thing through. The slide would be nice....

Well..... maybe a 38 or 40 ft U295, single front slide, carpeting/wood/luxury vinyl. LRH tires on the front and be sure to weigh it first

(ETA I don't know anything about it, but MOT has a 2001 40 ft U295 single slide non-tag on consignment....)

Re: Pros and Cons of Tandem (Tag) Axles

Reply #6 – June 02, 2017, 11:05:14 am

Hi Chuck,

Our first diesel was a 36 Country Coach with suspension mods, new shocks, and new Michelins. It drove exceptionally and we thought how could there possibly be anything better? Moved to the 38 Foretravel with tag and were really surprised how nice it was to drive. The driveway/parking lot transition sways are a thing of the past. Wind and the large vehicles do not affect it nearly as much. Less tired after long days in the seat. We now have a 42 Foretravel and the ride and handling are much the same, only you can tell it is heavier and longer.

Shanna drives 50% of the time and after experiencing both configurations, she would not let us get a non tag diesel.

Kurt

Re: Pros and Cons of Tandem (Tag) Axles

Reply #7 – June 02, 2017, 06:46:15 pm

Chuck, if you are happy with your current coach, consider 'buying' your current coach from yourself. Guaranteed no surprises, disappointments, maintenance issues, bladder repairs, HWS issues, fitting into some campsites, tag lift issues, extra weight, bulkhead problems, and a few other unknowns you will not learn about. Always factor in risk in every transaction and then go for it.

Re: Pros and Cons of Tandem (Tag) Axles

Reply #8 – June 02, 2017, 08:53:30 pm

There is an awesome, rare '38 footer with a tag in the classifieds. If I was in the market I'd jump on it. Beauitiful coach.

Re: Pros and Cons of Tandem (Tag) Axles

Reply #9 – June 02, 2017, 10:58:24 pm

What year 38 footer?
Jim

2002 U320

Re: Pros and Cons of Tandem (Tag) Axles

Reply #10 – June 02, 2017, 11:10:11 pm

2004

Re: Pros and Cons of Tandem (Tag) Axles

Reply #11 – June 02, 2017, 11:38:04 pm

The most interior and exterior storage model is our 40' 97 u320 non tag no slide out coach.

Separately the dinette is on the street side under the main awning facing most normal campsite setup's.

The galley is on the curb side where normally would be another's campsite.

This was the normal Foretravel floorplan for many years.

Less lenght, less wheelbase for easier turning, tag axles for increased capacity, slide outs for more interior space at a loss of interior and exterior storage are all decisions to be factored in.

Richard and Betty the former owners of our 97 both mentioned the day we picked up their traded in 97 coach that the old coach had a lot more storage.

As far as driveabilty while I am sure the tag adds a bit of stability but to me the 11'6" height 97 is near perfect without a tag.

The design of the coach distributes the load over the air bags. Higher loads result in higher per bag internal pressures which are the stability of the design.

Probably offset by adding the tag bags.

I drive ours fairly hard and have run ours on many weasel trails. No problem.

But the tires and shocks and tire pressure need to be optimized in my experience.

Hope my ramblings help define things a bit.

Re: Pros and Cons of Tandem (Tag) Axles

Reply #12 – June 03, 2017, 02:30:09 am

After "camping" for over four decades, one thing I've learned is there is no perfect coach! Every one of them has their positives and negatives and all are compromises. You pick what you think works best for you at the time and you live with it.

I actually would like an old faded out, Class C, gas engine Lazy Daze. Good quality, perfect for hunting and fishing, and I wouldn't worry about garage space, scratches, parking, or making turns! However, I don't think Shanna shares my viewpoint :-)

Re: Pros and Cons of Tandem (Tag) Axles

Reply #13 – June 03, 2017, 02:47:20 pm

A friend recently bought a 40' FT with two slides and a tag. The rear slide sheared two bolts when they tried to extend. We looked under the bed and found that because of the slide mechanism, the access to the engine was very limited. Because of the tag, their starting batteries are located further inboard and very difficult to reach. I prefer cross ventilation from opposing windows, as well as having the view. Two slides doubles the potential for expensive repairs (think bladder).
I would be interested to know from those that live back east, if the tag is considered another axle, requiring higher tolls. We paid up to $15/axle ($60 total including toad), when crossing bridges or traveling along toll roads, mostly back east.
We are very happy for the single axle, single slide 36' coach. The living room slide makes a big difference in livability - don't know about the bedroom.

Re: Pros and Cons of Tandem (Tag) Axles

Reply #14 – June 03, 2017, 04:05:33 pm

Quote from: Sven and Kristi – June 03, 2017, 02:47:20 pm

I would be interested to know from those that live back east, if the tag is considered another axle, requiring higher tolls. We paid up to $15/axle ($60 total including toad), when crossing bridges or traveling along toll roads, mostly back east.

The answer is Yes, I think all tolls base price on number of axles. At least everywhere I have been.

Re: Pros and Cons of Tandem (Tag) Axles

Reply #15 – June 04, 2017, 12:10:34 am

Quote from: turbojack – June 03, 2017, 04:05:33 pm

The answer is Yes, I think all tolls base price on number of axles. At least everywhere I have been.

.
Yes, based on axles... Our first coach was a '99 U320, no tag. Our second was a '05 Country Coach Intrigue, tag.

Toll roads liked the Country Coach much better especially given we had a toad...

I began to feel the long haul drivers pain...

Now we have a 36' U320, no tag.

Re: Pros and Cons of Tandem (Tag) Axles

Reply #16 – June 04, 2017, 01:47:19 am

IMO the tag adds straight line stability, and also make tight campground turns easier. On a 40' tag, once you lift the tag, you have the wheelbase of a 38' no tag Foretravel. Foretravel Specifications, Floor Plans, Photos & Brochures by Year

Re: Pros and Cons of Tandem (Tag) Axles

Reply #17 – June 04, 2017, 12:46:40 pm

My no-tag 38 already has the turning radius of a 38, comparable outside storage to a 40', and you would be hard pressed to see the difference in the interior. Plus I have accessible batteries. Plenty of ccc too. A tag might get you somewhat better driving stability, but I see little or no room for improvement with my 38.

Plus I have just one slide. I don't much care for having a bedroom slide and toilet room.

Re: Pros and Cons of Tandem (Tag) Axles

Reply #18 – June 04, 2017, 01:54:31 pm

Hi Chuck,
When we traded our GV for the present 2001 40ft, single slide U320 one of the options was a double slide one with a tag axle. The extra mechanism of the bedroom slide and loss of engine access cut that one out. The tag took away storage so that was out and we ended up with the single slide which is great for the use that we did. Vacation home on wheels.
My coach weighs in at 32,800lbs fully equipped, full fuel and water. Empty Grey and Black tanks.
Tires and tolls may not be an issue for you, but were for us.
The coach is also for sale having been bought up to 100% over the past couple of months. Now I am on my own it doesn't make any sense to keep it for just me and the little dog.
I guess the only coach for any of us has to be the one we have, and then the wish list for what we don't have???
Good luck with the search.
Speedbird 1.

Re: Pros and Cons of Tandem (Tag) Axles

Reply #19 – June 04, 2017, 03:55:01 pm

Twer it I, 40 or under single slide, single axle fine.

Re: Pros and Cons of Tandem (Tag) Axles

Reply #20 – June 04, 2017, 05:15:19 pm

I've read these comments with great interest. Each has contained some pertinent information, enough for me to narrow down my choice to what is probably the least available coach around. I would like a '96 or later U320 36' single slide. Here's why:

Even if we full time we will always own a house. Because of this carrying capacity is not an issue, so the tag is not really needed.

My present coach has sufficient, even surplus storage area so a longer than 36 coach is not needed. The slide is appealing, would give some extra elbow room for entertaining. No desire for a bedroom slide, I wish the bedroom area could be shrunk with an east west bed and move the extra 2' into the living room area.

The 320, wouldn't, mind the aquahot and with the extra weight of the slide, plus a cargo trailer for ever larger motorized toys the horsepower would be a plus. I must say, though, our present coach with 300 hp has proven to be simple, reliable and totally capable of dragging 5K tow through the Rockies. Wouldn't want to put any more behind it, though.

So, I'll keep an eye out and in the meantime move ahead with some enhancements of old faithful. I appreciate everyone's advice in these forum responses plus thanks to those who sent PM's.

Re: Pros and Cons of Tandem (Tag) Axles

Reply #21 – June 04, 2017, 05:24:30 pm

Slides first pearled in 1999 'special edition" U-320 - not sure how many made Common year 2000 and beyond

Re: Pros and Cons of Tandem (Tag) Axles

Reply #22 – June 04, 2017, 06:40:10 pm

Quote from: Tom Lang – June 04, 2017, 12:46:40 pm

My no-tag 38 already has the turning radius of a 38, comparable outside storage to a 40', and you would be hard pressed to see the difference in the interior. Plus I have accessible batteries. Plenty of ccc too. A tag might get you somewhat better driving stability, but I see little or no room for improvement with my 38.
Plus I have just one slide. I don't much care for having a bedroom slide and toilet room.

Ok, so Tom is so right about a 38 295 - a rare breed.

My 2013 weight record from RVSEF at the Grandvention - this is a 2 slide - both on DS, 2005 non-tag coach:

Coach ratings:
Front: 14,320
Rear: 21,000

Actual measurements with full fuel, full water, empty holding tanks, 75% propane and gear for a 2 month road trip:
PS front: 6100
DS front: 6450
PS rear: 9800
DS Rear: 10,450

So doing the math here are the safety margins of a fully loaded 2005 295 38 ft 2 slide coach:
PS front: 395
DS front: 45
PS rear: 700
DS Rear: 50

We've seen this wonderful country racking up 50K miles over 6 years with no issues on this amazing Foretravel chassis. Full documentation including the above weight info will be at MOT June 5th. Sadly, we have to give it up.

Re: Pros and Cons of Tandem (Tag) Axles

Reply #23 – June 04, 2017, 07:00:33 pm

Quote from: Mark... – June 04, 2017, 06:40:10 pm

So doing the math here are the safety margins of a fully loaded 2005 295 38 ft 2 slide coach:
PS front: 395
DS front: 45
PS rear: 9800
DS Rear: 10,450

I think that should be

PS rear: 700
DS rear: 50

Re: Pros and Cons of Tandem (Tag) Axles

Reply #24 – June 04, 2017, 07:05:09 pm

Quote from: Michelle – June 04, 2017, 07:00:33 pm

I think that should be

PS rear: 700
DS rear: 50

Thanks Michelle - I just corrected my post. A 500 mile day in the rain and the construction nightmare on I-30 probably tested my posting skills

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