HWH Failing to Remain On/Engaged

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HWH Failing to Remain On/Engaged

June 14, 2017, 06:54:47 pm

We've downloaded the proper HWH manual, I've searched Forum (doesn't mean I found everything), we've talked to James Trianna, and have a call in to HWH. But Susan & I are thinking maybe someone on the Forum has had a similar issue and solved it.

Background: we've had work done on the HWH system twice now at Foretravel. They replaced the leveling sensor in April 2016 and re-calibrated it in June 2016. In April 2017, they fixed several small leaks and replaced the 12V compressor (as part of a slide bladder replacement). The leveling system worked perfectly after our April 2017 Nac visit and continued to work perfectly on a loop through AL, TN, KY, and OH. Any time we parked the coach at a campground and then leveled, the red light above the Level/Air button stayed on; coach always maintained level.

Current issue: On our way back to the West, while in Springfield, IL, we noticed the coach slipping off level in 24 hours. Found the red light above the Level/Air button was off. Started the engine, re-leveled, and the light stayed on; the coach stayed level. Next stop in MO, same thing. Ditto in KS. But here in Denver, restarting the engine and re-leveling the coach did NOT result in the red light staying on. We tried several days in a row.

Is this a circuit board/logic controller problem? The membrane keyboard? A fused circuit?

Random facts and previous advice: 1. We've been told it doesn't matter whether the light above the Level/Air button stays on or not. For us, since the most recent round of repairs at least, it does matter. The coach does no "wake ups" or re-leveling if the red light is off. Moreover, when the engine is started, the HWH is already in Travel mode. 2. In times past, when the level system "woke up" to check and re-level the coach, we generally heard the compressor run; seldom if ever did the leveling system release air. Now it seems to be the opposite; most times it releases air to re-level, but we haven't heard the compressor run. 3. At least once in the past week, when the engine was started to re-level the coach, the red light was not on but neither was the green Travel mode. Travel didn't come on until the air built up on the dash gauges to 75-80. 4. When the coach slips off level, it is consistently dropping the right side.

Aarrgh. Thanks in advance for any thoughts! :-)

Re: HWH Failing to Remain On/Engaged

Reply #1 – June 14, 2017, 07:07:45 pm

Seeing as our builds are only 4 apart, I can tell you how our system has always worked. Releases air first to re-level, then adds air when that no longer levels the coach. You must have a leak in the system as I turned the light off after leveling while on vacation and 10 days later when I reactivated it all 4 red lights were still on and the coach was still level. The travel light only tells you that you have enough air pressure. You must wait for all the bags to fill up to travel. As far as your red light issue that has never happened to me.

Re: HWH Failing to Remain On/Engaged

Reply #2 – June 14, 2017, 07:12:54 pm

Quote from: LookingWest – June 14, 2017, 06:54:47 pm

Any time we parked the coach at a campground and then leveled, the red light above the Level/Air button stayed on; coach always maintained level.

IIRC, the Level/Air light will be steady when the system is actively checking leveling (coming out of "sleep" mode). "Sleep" mode (at least in our coach) is usually a faint flicker of that light. Now, I believe the 2003 might be a slightly different system than yours - does the manual indicated how it normally presents "sleep" mode?

Quote from: LookingWest – June 14, 2017, 06:54:47 pm

Current issue: On our way back to the West, while in Springfield, IL, we noticed the coach slipping off level in 24 hours. Found the red light above the Level/Air button was off. Started the engine, re-leveled, and the light stayed on; the coach stayed level. Next stop in MO, same thing. Ditto in KS. But here in Denver, restarting the engine and re-leveling the coach did NOT result in the red light staying on. We tried several days in a row.

Quote from: LookingWest – June 14, 2017, 06:54:47 pm

Random facts and previous advice:

2. In times past, when the level system "woke up" to check and re-level the coach, we generally heard the compressor run; seldom if ever did the leveling system release air. Now it seems to be the opposite; most times it releases air to re-level, but we haven't heard the compressor run.

This is likely normal. The algorithm says "exhaust to lower the high side first to achieve level, only run the aux compressor if exhausting is insufficient".

Now - do you EVER hear the compressor run? Is it possible the fuse is blown?

Quote from: LookingWest – June 14, 2017, 06:54:47 pm

3. 4. When the coach slips off level, it is consistently dropping the right side.

Verify this by measuring the height between the air bag plates when level, then every so often (half hour, hour, or something like that). It can appear one side is dropping when in fact the other side is raising. Only by measuring the actual air bag height can you be sure (BTDTGTT).

It sounds like you might have a leak on the right side, but you *should* hear the aux compressor come on at some point to bring that side up. Check those air bag heights and if it turns out the left side is actually raising, look at your left raise solenoids as a possible culprit.

Re: HWH Failing to Remain On/Engaged

Reply #3 – June 14, 2017, 11:53:17 pm

Your symptoms sound very familiar. I experienced the same behavior with my leveling system until, on one final try, I heard air exhausting just after leveling and the membrane control panel lit up in randomly flashing lights all over the panel. I finally stopped using it except in manual mode with a bubble level, shutting it off completely once level.

MOT repaired it by replacing the "brain" (i.e. control box) in the basement.

I think that both MOT and FOT keep rebuilt control boxes on hand to avoid the wait of sending one back and forth to HWH while you're sitting in their lot.

Re: HWH Failing to Remain On/Engaged

Reply #4 – June 15, 2017, 01:36:36 am

FWIW - If you have a "brain go bad and you are ANYWHERE near Moscow IA - go to the factory for this repair - they will R and R the box in one day, and take your box in to their repair dept. and fix for next to nothing.

My brain box went bad. R and R of the box, bench labor and a handful of parts - total was less than $120.00.

Not making that up......

MOT and FT and everybody else charges a lot for the rebuilt unit, WAY cheaper to go to the source....if time/distance work for your schedule and cost

Re: HWH Failing to Remain On/Engaged

Reply #5 – June 15, 2017, 07:37:27 am

Quote from: LookingWest – June 14, 2017, 06:54:47 pm

they fixed several small leaks and replaced the 12V compressor

What did they do with your old compressor?

Re: HWH Failing to Remain On/Engaged

Reply #6 – June 15, 2017, 10:30:50 am

I agree- if possible go to HWH in Moscow, Iowa. They are great to deal with and take good care of your system.

Re: HWH Failing to Remain On/Engaged

Reply #7 – June 15, 2017, 02:49:53 pm

Quote from: Travelin' Man – June 15, 2017, 07:37:27 am

What did they do with your old compressor?

I think I bought it.

Re: HWH Failing to Remain On/Engaged

Reply #8 – June 17, 2017, 02:37:56 pm

Quote from: Travelin' Man – June 15, 2017, 07:37:27 am

What did they do with your old compressor?

Travelin' Man . . .

No idea what they did! Since parts are useless to me — sadly, no mechanical skills at all; some days I wonder why we bought a coach — I never keep anything. Sounds like maybe Craneman got it? ;-)

Re: HWH Failing to Remain On/Engaged

Reply #9 – June 17, 2017, 02:54:43 pm

Thanks to all who responded to this thread. Much appreciated.

Just as an update, because Susan & I always appreciate the kindness and knowledge of Forum members:

Michelle, we'll double-check the manual to see how our unit "presents" sleep mode. Yes, I think 1999 is different from 2003. It was interesting that, when the factory was troubleshooting pressure/vacuum problems after replacing our slide bladder, we ended up in a discussion about whether our coach was from a build-series/year that is required to have a different manifold fitted when replacing the slide bladder — a sort of recall/re-engineering issue? I don't know — or whether we could use our old one. We ended up being in the latter group, although ours was shot and is on its way to HWH for a rebuild. Foretravel swapped in an identical unit they had. Others know more about this manifold replacement issue, I'm sure.

BillO and Tim, yes, our current guess is that the "brain" needs something (so does mine, but that's a different discussion). We had actually planned to stop in Moscow, IA, on our way from Cincinnati, OH, to Oregon. But when the system functioned perfectly after the factory visit all the way through AL, TN, KY, and OH, we diverted south and crossed MO and KS to get to Denver, instead of going through IA. Bad decision, maybe, as it turns out.

Finally, re: the "brain," when we look behind the metal cover of ours (1999 first year for slides, Build 5567), it looks to us a lot like the gut of a 1980s-era PC compatible computer. In other words, it appears that there are boards that could be swapped out by a user, as easily as we used to change graphics boards or insert modems in slots on old IBM PCs? True? Not true?

Since we won't have time to get back to Iowa or Texas this trip, we're either going have to solve it ourselves or find someone in Oregon with the necessary knowledge! Suggestions always appreciated, just as we're grateful for the good responses to our initial question that launched this thread. Thanks to all!

Re: HWH Failing to Remain On/Engaged

Reply #10 – June 17, 2017, 03:33:48 pm

Here you go

Oregon Motorcoach Center | Premium RV Service | Eugene, OR.

Re: HWH Failing to Remain On/Engaged

Reply #11 – June 17, 2017, 05:55:49 pm

Quote from: Tim Fiedler – June 17, 2017, 03:33:48 pm

Here you go

Oregon Motorcoach Center | Premium RV Service | Eugene, OR.

Thanks, Tim — that's just what we needed.

Any recommendations for fiberglass repair along the bottom of a couple of bay doors? [Just for reputation's sake: I didn't drag the doors over something and neither did the previous owner. Old, old damage]

Re: HWH Failing to Remain On/Engaged

Reply #12 – June 17, 2017, 07:31:14 pm

If it has been damaged for 15 years like you say, wait a while longer and travel via NAC and let X-theme do it.......
Snicker, snicker.....

Re: HWH Failing to Remain On/Engaged

Reply #13 – June 17, 2017, 09:07:29 pm

Quote from: LookingWest – June 17, 2017, 02:54:43 pm

Since we won't have time to get back to Iowa or Texas this trip, we're either going have to solve it ourselves or find someone in Oregon with the necessary knowledge! Suggestions always appreciated, just as we're grateful for the good responses to our initial question that launched this thread. Thanks to all!

Oregon Motor Coach in Eugene & Premier in Junction City come to mind.
We live in Salem.
ps... our HWH is doing nearly the same thing..ie: will wake up and dump air to Level but will not "add " air to level (12 v pump works for all other used tho)

Re: HWH Failing to Remain On/Engaged

Reply #14 – June 19, 2017, 05:14:58 pm

Quote from: saddlesore – June 17, 2017, 09:07:29 pm

Oregon Motor Coach in Eugene & Premier in Junction City come to mind.
We live in Salem.
ps... our HWH is doing nearly the same thing..ie: will wake up and dump air to Level but will not "add " air to level (12 v pump works for all other used tho)

Thanks, Saddlesore! We should be around your area most of the summer — if we can find park! Had a last minute job change for summer and, of course, the Willamette Valley books up early.

And we'll keep you posted on our HWH. After a couple of bad days when I originally posted, the coach is remaining absolutely level now in Salt Lake City, yet the red light (if it actually matters) is off.

Re: HWH Failing to Remain On/Engaged

Reply #15 – May 31, 2022, 03:46:18 pm

I am having the same symptoms as the OP. I realize this is an old thread, but no reason to start a new one and regurgitate the same info. Unfortunately OP never followed up about any resolution.

My leveling system is not staying active after i turn the ignition off. If I turn the ignition on (key on, engine off), and command an auto level from the HWH dash controller, it will do so. Over a 24 hr period, I lose all air out of the front right side, so for some reason the system is not doing it's job when the key is off.

The aux compressor is brand new ViaAir 100% duty cycle unit and is working as it should with either a call from the HWH slide bladder system, or from the pressure switch on the aux compressor manifold. Pretty confident the leveling issue is independent of the compressor system.

Another annoying thing I would like to sort out is the fact that the second I turn key on, the HWH controller "wakes up" and instantly starts trying to go to "travel" mode. Shouldn't it stay on auto level until commanded otherwise? Does everyone elses HWH auto levelling system automatically reset to travel mode the instant the key is turned on?

Re: HWH Failing to Remain On/Engaged

Reply #16 – May 31, 2022, 03:52:43 pm

Quote from: evantwheeler – May 31, 2022, 03:46:18 pm

Another annoying thing I am trying to combat is the fact that the second I turn key on, the HWH controller "wakes up" and instantly starts trying to go to "travel" mode. Shouldn't it stay on auto level until commanded otherwise? Does everyone elses HWH auto levelling system automatically reset to travel mode the instant the key is turned on?

Yes, my 01 does the same thing, it can be annoying when you want to manually re-level the rig.

Some of the HWH panels are only lit up/usable with ignition on, mine is that way. However, even though it's "off", it re-levels the rig when called for so I think you have something going on.

Re: HWH Failing to Remain On/Engaged

Reply #17 – May 31, 2022, 04:03:16 pm

Quote from: Elliott – May 31, 2022, 03:52:43 pm

Yes, my 01 does the same thing, it can be annoying when you want to manually re-level the rig.

Some of the HWH panels are only lit up/usable with ignition on, mine is that way. However, even though it's "off", it re-levels the rig when called for so I think you have something going on.

Thanks for the reply. My dash controller is inoperable when the key is off, always has been, I think that is probably standard. It used to have a red light that stayed on, but at the moment, as soon as key is off, no lights on control pad at all. It seems the levelling system functions as it should when it is powered up, so it sounds like I need to figure out how to get it to do its job when key is turned off.

Any downsides to changing the power source to a constant 12v instead of 12v only when key is on?

Re: HWH Failing to Remain On/Engaged

Reply #18 – May 31, 2022, 04:06:38 pm

Check the fuse in the HWH controller downstairs. There is a fuse for both 12V and ignition

Re: HWH Failing to Remain On/Engaged

Reply #19 – May 31, 2022, 04:39:18 pm

Mine does something similar.
Here is my work around for now. Once the coach levels, press and hold the level button and then turn off the key, release the level button and see if the light stays on. If I remember correctly if you want it to auto level you need to have it in manual mode before you press and hold the level button and vice versa.
Mine is an intermittent problem that may work fine for a week or so then just quit. Called and visited with HWH multiple times, but their only resolution was to send in the control board and panel. I just haven't stopped long enough to send in.
Hope this helps.

Tracy

Re: HWH Failing to Remain On/Engaged

Reply #20 – June 01, 2022, 06:21:19 am

Sending in the control box and the touch panel is probably the only solution. I was doing the same procedure holding down the auto level button and turning off, worked for awhile. Then the problem progressed to where it wouldn't bring back up left rear for travel mode. Had to fix that one on the road with tech service at hwh. Better to park it (on stands) so you can get under it or move it while you wait on hwh to fix it. Once you pull the control box nothing on the air suspension will work. They replaced my touch pad and repaired the control box for 75.00. Thought that was cheap, just took awhile to get it back, probably worse now.

Larry

Re: HWH Failing to Remain On/Engaged

Reply #21 – June 01, 2022, 12:25:17 pm

What is the model of the system in your coach Evantwheeler? I have the 2000 system and there is a wire listed as 9700 that sends power to the pump to start. I believe in the stock wiring, it is wired directly to the pump solenoid. In my system, it's a single wire with a weatherpack connector that can be unplugged. Do you have this? If so, hit the RAISE button and see if you get 12V there.

You can see it at the top, next to the 3-pin weatherpack connector and fuse holder in this picture.

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