Another Bulkhead Repair

Topic: Another Bulkhead Repair (Read 2706 times) previous topic - next topic

Another Bulkhead Repair

August 10, 2017, 03:28:54 pm

I recently had bulkhead repair at MOT. Both bulkheads had been repaired four years ago at Extreme but the work was unacceptable. The back repair required that three areas be cut out and new tubing welded in; the front repair did not require cutting, only exposure, cleaning, protection as well as replacement and addition of bolts.

I won't go into too much detail as there are already excellent write-ups and photos of the process. I also won't mention price as every one of these repairs is different. I've included the following photos to show the process and the finished product. I am satisfied with this job.

1. Right side before cutting;
2. Right side after cutting;
3. Sewer area after cutting;
4. Back after;
5. Back after;
6. Sewer area after;
7. Back exposed.
jor

Re: Another Bulkhead Repair

Reply #1 – August 10, 2017, 05:56:36 pm

What symptoms made you check further after your former repair?

Re: Another Bulkhead Repair

Reply #2 – August 10, 2017, 07:39:26 pm

Quote

What symptoms made you check further after your former repair?

The repair was done before I owned the coach. Separation at the joint, mismatched, loose bolts and washers and water intrusion into the wet bay when traveling in heavy rain.
jor

Re: Another Bulkhead Repair

Reply #3 – August 10, 2017, 07:45:52 pm

Hi Brett,

In my case I had no precursors, just fear after reading so many posts about the problem. A quick underneath at The rear bulkhead showed no problems. That is not a good indicator.

Jim

2002U330

Re: Another Bulkhead Repair

Reply #4 – August 10, 2017, 07:51:50 pm

Jim,

Can there be bulkhead problems without signs of rust jacking, broken Rolocks, rust around the drop down sewer door, rust stains around bolts through the basement floor (like hose reel or shore power cord reel, joey beds ,etc) Perhaps.

But, all of these ARE indicators of bulkhead issues.

Said another way, on a coach I owned or was looking to buy, with none of the above symptoms, I don't think I would rip off the fiberglass floor to check it.

Re: Another Bulkhead Repair

Reply #5 – August 10, 2017, 08:17:57 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – August 10, 2017, 07:51:50 pm

on a coach I owned or was looking to buy, with none of the above symptoms, I don't think I would rip off the fiberglass floor to check it.

Yup, I checked all over after I discovered this, and saw nothing serious. I will patch it, but keep a sharp eye on the wet bay!

Re: Another Bulkhead Repair

Reply #6 – August 10, 2017, 08:29:25 pm

Mike,

Looks like something was dropped in there. I see no sign of any water intrusion. Were it me, I would do nothing unless it "grows", as that is NOT a structural area.

Re: Another Bulkhead Repair

Reply #7 – August 10, 2017, 08:40:12 pm

I'm guilty of not researching all of the bulkhead archives, but I've seem most of the posts since I've been a member of the forum. Question: Is the bulkhead problem on all Foretravels? Only certain models, years, etc. ? Has it been eliminated on newer units? Can anyone give an overview and history? Thanks

Re: Another Bulkhead Repair

Reply #8 – August 10, 2017, 09:08:13 pm

Hi Brett,

Yes, taking down the fiberglass floor is how I found the problem. That seems to b the only real way to evaluate it. There were no other obvious indiators. Did not try to torque the huck bolts.
Jim

2002 U320

Re: Another Bulkhead Repair

Reply #9 – August 11, 2017, 09:50:23 pm

I agree with the other Brett-I wouldn't tear apart my coach without symptoms. There has only been one catastrophic failure of a bulkhead joint that I can recall in all the years of the forum.

Re: Another Bulkhead Repair

Reply #10 – August 11, 2017, 09:56:36 pm

[/quote

Quote from: amos.harrison – August 11, 2017, 09:50:23 pm

There has only been one catastrophic failure of a bulkhead joint that I can recall in all the years of the forum.

I think at least two. I had total failure of my front bulkhead (ref "has this happened to anyone") under the discussions topic. And it seems I remember someone had a failed rear bulkhead.

Roland

Re: Another Bulkhead Repair

Reply #11 – August 11, 2017, 10:07:07 pm

Quote from: wantabe – August 10, 2017, 08:40:12 pm

I'm guilty of not researching all of the bulkhead archives, but I've seem most of the posts since I've been a member of the forum. Question: Is the bulkhead problem on all Foretravels? Only certain models, years, etc. ? Has it been eliminated on newer units? Can anyone give an overview and history? Thanks

ORED foretravels and or pre UNI series don't have the lower structural bulkheads that are prone to corrosion. That being said they can suffer corrosion damage.

Re: Another Bulkhead Repair

Reply #12 – August 11, 2017, 10:28:47 pm

This is the last 2 feet of my floor at the rear bulkhead - yet there was no outward separation or rust visible until the bottom fiberglass was pulled down. And there was a lot more rust damage done here than shows in these pictures. I'm glad I didn't wait for the bulkhead bolts to show to separation. It was rebuilt by MOT two months ago. Whew, I feel that was a close one!

Jim

2002 U320

Re: Another Bulkhead Repair

Reply #13 – August 11, 2017, 10:42:15 pm

So, I have a question, is the front bulkhead now suspect as well. It seems as though the only way to know is to cut that fiberglass too.

Re: Another Bulkhead Repair

Reply #14 – August 11, 2017, 10:52:42 pm

John,

According to MOT techs the front bulk head is not nearly so likely to have damage....water from the wet bay spillage and fresh tank over flow seem to be responsible for most of the damage to the rear bulk head. I also wonder about stresses created by heavier towed vehicles and trailers.
Jim

2002 U320

Re: Another Bulkhead Repair

Reply #15 – August 12, 2017, 12:48:20 am

Quote from: Jim Frerichs – August 11, 2017, 10:52:42 pm

John,

According to MOT techs the front bulk head is not nearly so likely to have damage....water from the wet bay spillage and fresh tank over flow seem to be responsible for most of the damage to the rear bulk head. I also wonder about stresses created by heavier towed vehicles and trailers.
Jim
2002 U320

Ours was used to pull a construction trailer with steel on it from N.C. to Oklahoma many times before we bought it. I've pulled a SOB back up onto the road after it went over the edge of a drop off with only the bumper sticking up. Just used a chain with one one of the front covers removed and backed up with no problems. Pulling like that with a four speed requires using reverse as first gear is too tall to do it going forward.

Pierce

Re: Another Bulkhead Repair

Reply #16 – August 12, 2017, 10:26:45 am

Quote from: Jim Frerichs – August 11, 2017, 10:52:42 pm

John,

According to MOT techs the front bulk head is not nearly so likely to have damage....water from the wet bay spillage and fresh tank over flow seem to be responsible for most of the damage to the rear bulk head. I also wonder about stresses created by heavier towed vehicles and trailers.
Jim

2002 U320

I agree. For every damaged front bulkhead, I will see 20 damaged rear ones.

The few front bulkhead seem to mostly be from up north where salt on the roads caused damage. Recall one where the first symptom the owner was aware of (obviously never looked under the coach) was when the fuel tank fell through the floor!

Re: Another Bulkhead Repair

Reply #17 – August 12, 2017, 08:24:07 pm

I discovered 1 broke curb side bulkhead bolt on my 1996 295 unicoach today. Owned coach 5mos. Guess try to lower fiberglass bottom and drill out broke bolt,and replace?
Forgot to mention, this is curb rear.

Re: Another Bulkhead Repair

Reply #18 – August 12, 2017, 08:50:39 pm

Tom,

If no other symptoms, do NOT pull the whole fiberglass floor loose to replace that broken Rolok with a through-bolt.

There are waterproof plugs (see my Bulkhead write-up), though I understand the PN listed those many years ago is no longer available. Would appreciate your posting the new PN if you happen to research it.

Re: Another Bulkhead Repair

Reply #19 – August 12, 2017, 09:00:51 pm

Thanks Bret,
Us noobs appreciate your sage, voice of reason. Will read your detailed write up from years ago. Btw,ordered 4oz can of por 15 rust preventative that I may use.
Noticed the white fiberglass bottow is open ended??

Re: Another Bulkhead Repair

Reply #20 – August 13, 2017, 10:20:10 am

There isn't any practical way to get at the backside of the outer most Rolok (bulkhead bolts used in Foretravels until early 2000's). That bolt ends inside of the outer 1.5" longitudinal tubing. I think what you are calling the "lower fiberglass" is actually the aluminum trim that runs from front to back, and yes it is hollow. One section of it on each side adjacent to the bulkhead has to be removed in order to "open up" the fiberglass skin. Other than the outer most Roloks at each end of the bulkhead joint, you can get at the back side of the bulkhead bolts as Bret points out. IF (big if!) that outer most broken bolt is the only issue with your bulkhead joint, you could add a through bolt about an inch and a half to the inside of that broken bolt location. Or you could just fill the hole with caulk and keep an eye on the rest of them. Or... you could bite the bullet and do a thorough inspection of the area by removing a strip of fiberglass all the way across. To see how the framing is constructed, there are threads where I have posted many detailed pictures of the bulkhead area.
Don

Quote from: Saltfevr – August 12, 2017, 08:24:07 pm

I discovered 1 broke curb side bulkhead bolt on my 1996 295 unicoach today. Owned coach 5mos. Guess try to lower fiberglass bottom and drill out broke bolt,and replace?
Forgot to mention, this is curb rear.

Re: Another Bulkhead Repair

Reply #21 – August 13, 2017, 11:35:53 am

Quote from: Saltfevr – August 12, 2017, 08:24:07 pm

I discovered 1 broke curb side bulkhead bolt on my 1996 295 unicoach today. Owned coach 5mos. Guess try to lower fiberglass bottom and drill out broke bolt,and replace?
Forgot to mention, this is curb rear.

Impossible to drill out the broken bolt since they go all the way through to the far side. You will have to sister another next to it. You can use a hole saw to make a round hole on the far side of the tubing and then put a nut and washer on. Make sure there is a plug available for the size hole you make. I would recommend going to 3/8" and in stainless or galvanized. You can be assured that water has gotten behind the big angle iron and is rust jacking many other Roloks. They are just inexpensive grade 5 fasteners without any corrosion resistance and not intended for this application. One just could not take the stress any longer.

I backed quite a few out, examined them and then re-installed and torqued. Several broke when removed and some failed when torqued. Hydrogen embrittlement and rust jacking take their toll as time goes by. Curb side rear had the most failures with a couple in the front. Left side only had one that failed.

Pierce

Re: Another Bulkhead Repair

Reply #22 – August 13, 2017, 12:53:09 pm

Removal of a broken Rolok is generally not a problem. You have to access the BACK by drilling through the white fiberglass bottom. Again make sure that you have located a waterproof plug if only doing one. If multiples, you can use a 4" wide sheet of aluminum or FG and something like 3M4000 to adhere it to the surrounding fiberglass to cover the access holes.

You will drill (directions for rear bulkhead) with the back of the hole about 2" forward of the bulkhead. That way, you forward of the metal box beam. If in doubt, use a magnet to mark the location of the box beam. You need to be a little if front of it.

What you will see is 1+" of the threads of the broken Rolok sticking forward of the box beam. Soak both front and back of the bolt with a penetrating oil. Then, double nut the bolt and pull it out. Then over-drill the existing hole to install a thru bolt. A LOT easier to drill a hole starting with the existing one that to sister, though that is certainly, from a structural standpoint, a good alternative.

ON EDIT: As Don points out (thanks, Don) in his post immediately following, on some coaches there are two box beams on the ends. So, use a magnet to verify the location of your box beams. If a single box beam, the broken Rolok is easily removed. If two, you will not be able to access the threads of the broken bolt, as they are "hidden" inside the second box beam.

Re: Another Bulkhead Repair

Reply #23 – August 13, 2017, 01:44:52 pm

This is good information Brett, but it doesn't apply to the post I quoted (saltfevr, reply #17 in this thread) issue with outer most Rolok (at least that is what shows in the second picture)... at least on Unicoaches. There is no getting at the back end of the outer most bolt, at least not without cutting out part of the framing. I was able to get at mine because I replaced that framing. I suppose you could use a hole saw and cut out a circle through the bottom of the tubing, but there wouldn't be much room to work and would weaken that frame member significantly.
Don

Quote from: wolfe10 – August 13, 2017, 12:53:09 pm

Removal of a broken Rolok is generally not a problem. You have to access the BACK by drilling through the white fiberglass bottom. Again make sure that you have located a waterproof plug if only doing one. If multiples, you can use a 4" wide sheet of aluminum or FG and something like 3M4000 to adhere it to the surrounding fiberglass to cover the access holes.

You will drill (directions for rear bulkhead) with the back of the hole about 2" forward of the bulkhead. That way, you forward of the metal box beam. If in doubt, use a magnet to mark the location of the box beam. You need to be a little if front of it.

What you will see is 1+" of the threads of the broken Rolok sticking forward of the box beam. Soak both front and back of the bolt with a penetrating oil. Then, double nut the bolt and pull it out. Then over-drill the existing hole to install a thru bolt. A LOT easier to drill a hole starting with the existing one that to sister, though that is certainly, from a structural standpoint, a good alternative.

Re: Another Bulkhead Repair

Reply #24 – August 13, 2017, 02:03:27 pm

Don,

Thanks.

Yes, you are correct. Some coaches DO have double box beams outboard. So, I will go back and modify my post to suggest using a magnet to locate the box beams.

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