Primary Fuel Filter upgrade options for Cummins ISC

Topic: Primary Fuel Filter upgrade options for Cummins ISC (Read 3081 times) previous topic - next topic

Primary Fuel Filter upgrade options for Cummins ISC

August 31, 2017, 01:24:23 pm

I am doing some research and trying to focus in on the best options for upgrading the primary fuel filtration system. The primary is the filter water separator on the suction side of the lift pump (or fuel transfer pump). Currently, the OEM Racor housing is okay and the Racor R90P filter cross that is currently installed is a Fleetguard FS19532. I probably won't be doing this project until we are back at home base at the end of the year, but I am doing the research while I am still motivated by the recent issues we had discussed in my intermittent stop engine light thread. As I posted in my last update to that thread, the issue seemed mostly resolved on the last leg of the trip, but I won't be able to say it is over with until we have many miles of freedom from annunciator dings (in the midst of the issues, it was all too easy to imagine the sound even when it wasn't happening!) and stop engine lights. At any rate, I am pretty set on the Davco style exemplified by the Davco 382. Cummins Fleetguard apparently has OEM'ed the Davco units and they have identical looking units that use the same replacement filter numbers as their Davco counterparts and also share the same form factors. The drawings with dimensions of the Davco 243 Diesel Pro (new version is the Diesel Pro 245)
(http://www.davco.com/forms/tech/F1215.pdf)
and the Cummins Diesel Pro 236
(http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/sites/default/files/LT36164.pdf)
However, the GPH ratings are significantly different in spite of using identical filter elements. The original Racor R90P is spec'd at 90GPH, as is the Cummins FH236. The apparently identical Davco (both the older Diesel Pro 243 and newer 245) is only rated at 60GPH. I can't find definitive specifications for for the 350HP Cummins ISC, but based on some other literature I have read, this would be marginal at best. Too bad, because the Davco 243 (which features the same "seeing is believing" visual filter change indicator is often available as new old stock on eBay for under $200, while a call to a Freightliner parts guy gave me a Canadian dollar price of about $350 for the Fleetguard (about $280 US). They didn't have them in stock and would have to order them from Cummins US, so not an option right now but gives me useful information for comparison purposes.
My thought process is that a higher GPH ratting will have more reserve capacity before causing a restriction to the lift pump which is what had been causing my anxiety provoking stop engine light because of the bio-sludge caused by the dying micro organisms from the contaminated fuel. Even though it seems to be under control now, I want to be proactive and as a nice side benefit, make it a cleaner process to change the primary filter element and also to know when to change it. Also, it is easy to see if there is air in the system with the Davco style, something that is not possible with the Racor. So for even more reserve GPH capacity (much more!) I could go with the the Davco 382
(http://www.davco.com/forms/tech/F1271.pdf)
or its Fleetguard equivalent the FH230
(http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/sites/default/files/LT32559.pdf)
series at a rated 180GPH. The issue with that is the mounting location. There is a requirement (or at least a strong suggestion) that the filter element be mounted above the full tank level. The current location of the Racor might not accommodate that requirement, though there is a stipulation in some of the units mounting instructions that if this not the case, a shut off valve must be installed, so it could work but then I am not sure if the visual indication of restriction level will function. I would love to put it back at the engine hatch, but finding room is an issue there too... Anyway, still in the preliminary stages of research but I would welcome the wisdom of the forum on this subject. I don't mind spending money for the goals of making travel more trouble and worry free, but of course I don't really want to spend more than necessary! That said, the almost $200 in filters would have gone a long way in paying for this upgrade and the peace of mind knowing earlier that fuel contamination was the cause of this issue would have been worth a whole lot more than that!
Don

Re: Primary Fuel Filter upgrade options for Cummins ISC

Reply #1 – August 31, 2017, 01:39:11 pm

Don,

GPH ratings between different manufacturers can be very misleading. Flow rate AT A GIVEN RESTRICTION is what needs to be compared.

I would contact Davco and ask about use with the ISC and even the ISL engine-- suspect they know the engines pretty well, as most of these units are on OTR trucks.

Re: Primary Fuel Filter upgrade options for Cummins ISC

Reply #2 – September 05, 2017, 05:28:43 pm

Here is an interim update to my fuel filter/water separator thread. I contacted Davco customer service via a web form on Saturday (long weekend) and got a response back almost first thing Tuesday morning that references the quote below from my thread starting post;

Quote from: Don & Tys (AKA acousticart) – August 31, 2017, 01:24:23 pm

Cummins Fleetguard apparently has OEM'ed the Davco units and they have identical looking units that use the same replacement filter numbers as their Davco counterparts and also share the same form factors. The drawings with dimensions of the Davco 243 Diesel Pro (new version is the Diesel Pro 245)
(http://www.davco.com/forms/tech/F1215.pdf)
and the Cummins Diesel Pro 236
(http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/sites/default/files/LT36164.pdf)
However, the GPH ratings are significantly different in spite of using identical filter elements. The original Racor R90P is spec'd at 90GPH, as is the Cummins FH236. The apparently identical Davco (both the older Diesel Pro 243 and newer 245) is only rated at 60GPH. I can't find definitive specifications for for the 350HP Cummins ISC, but based on some other literature I have read, this would be marginal at best.

Here is the question I sent to Davco. Note: He didn't address the second part of my question in bold italic, but I will follow up with a phone call later and update the thread as it will likely affect the mounting location of the assembly;

Quote

To: Customer Service - Davco <customerservice@davco.com>
Subject: Does Davco 243 have adequate flow for CAPS system Cummins 350HP ISC?
I have a question which Google has failed to supply me needed information. Shocking, I know, but I need to know if the fuel flow requirements for a primary fuel filter/water separator in US gallons per hour for a CAPS equipped 1999' 350HP ISC as used in a Foretravel diesel pusher motorhome exceeds the capacity of a Davco 243/245 fuel water seperator which is listed at 60GPH. Currently installed is a Racor R90P system which is rated at 90 GPH, but I would like to fit a Davco 243 which is rated at 60GPH. The Davco 243/245 appears to be identical to the Fleetguard 236 which is rated at 90GPH, but I haven't been able to source one. I would love to install a 382 setup, but space is a consideration if the element must be above the full tank level. If being below the full tank level doesn't negate the "Seeing is believing" feature of the unit and all I would have to do is install a shut off valve on the inlet side of the unit, then I would be able to fit a 382.
Thanks, Don Fera

And here is his response;

Quote

Don, the DAVCO Diesel Pro 243 is the same unit as the FH236 sold by Cummins. DAVCO manufactures and private labels this unit for Cummins/Fleetguard. While we recommend up to 60ghp applications for the Diesel Pro 243, Cummins uses and is comfortable with up to 90gph applications for this unit. The unit will handle 90gph, but is at it's upper limit at 90 so DAVCO recommends slower flows. Cummins/Fleetguard is comfortable with the 90gph flow.
Same unit
Steven Emery
DAVCO Customer Support

So as I suspected, the Davco 243/245 unit is the same as the "new" Cummins FH236. So, as far as Cummins is concerned, the Davco 243/245 would be a suitable choice for our 8.3 ISC 350HP motor. Still, it seems to me that the Davco 382 (180GPH) that is specified as having 2 or 3 times the GPH rating (depending on who's specs you read, Cummins or Davco) would have more capacity to resist clogging as well has capacity to remove water. So I am in the process of purchasing a new old stock Davco 382 with a Detroit Diesel label for a price about the same as the smaller Davco 243 I have been following. FYI, the Fleetguard labeled version of the Davco 382 is branded as the Fleetguard Fuel Pro FH230 with more numbers following depending upon the configuration and options. The unit I have purchased, according to the part number (Davco 382032DDCB), has Fluid Heat with 12VDC 195W preheater (coolant heat exchanger connection, and 12VDC heating element which doesn't have to be used, but nice to have the option). It doesn't have a WIF (water in fuel sensor), but I can buy buy a sensor for about $30 or so. I might want to do add a WIF and put an LED up front to indicate the presence of water in the fuel. That option might help me figure out which diesel source did me the favor

if I should get a load of Cr@p diesel, so I can respond with a dispersant additive ASAP. The secondary engine mounted Fleetguard FAS1022 has a WIF, but if the primary does its job, the secondary will never see it and so could go unnoticed. In all of my recent issues with the bad fuel, none of the fault codes indicated the presence of water, so the Racor was doing its job. I may not always be able to fill up at a high volume truck stop, so I intend to be prepared! I hope this thread is or will be of interest to others, because I know the subject has my attention!
Don

Re: Primary Fuel Filter upgrade options for Cummins ISC

Reply #3 – September 05, 2017, 05:35:22 pm

Don,

I really like the Davco 382. And, you should be able to mount it at the front, passenger's side of the engine compartment high enough to mount as recommended. Yes, may take an extra, short fuel line from old filter location to new, but no big deal.

Since it has a clear bowl, I would not spend the $$ and time to do a WIF sensor and wiring to dash. Just look at the filter the first stop after filling up.

Re: Primary Fuel Filter upgrade options for Cummins ISC

Reply #4 – September 05, 2017, 05:50:34 pm

That is my fall back position (I have seen pictures of other coaches that have primary filter located there... U280 I think) if I can't find a more convenient location for servicing. I am reluctant to have to change the filter by lifting the bed. For some reason, my better half doesn't approve of the odor of fresh diesel

in our living space. As far as running the wire for an LED in the dash, I already have a few that I can use. I will still do a visual check of course, but it might not show up immediately after a fill up. Mounting wise, I am considering back by the taillight near the coolant overflow. The original R90P location might be possible, but I will talk to Davco beforehand.
Don

Quote from: wolfe10 – September 05, 2017, 05:35:22 pm

Don,

I really like the Davco 382. And, you should be able to mount it at the front, passenger's side of the engine compartment high enough to mount as recommended. Yes, may take an extra, short fuel line from old filter location to new, but no big deal.

Since it has a clear bowl, I would not spend the $$ and time to do a WIF sensor and wiring to dash. Just look at the filter the first stop after filling up.

Re: Primary Fuel Filter upgrade options for Cummins ISC

Reply #5 – September 05, 2017, 05:56:21 pm

Tys,

WAIT-- you are married to Don and don't like "eau-de-diesel"

Actually with the Davco 382, should be minimal spill with filter change.

Re: Primary Fuel Filter upgrade options for Cummins ISC

Reply #6 – September 06, 2017, 07:54:55 pm

Don- this is very interesting. As you know I use the Racor with the Baldwin primary filter with great success. I can change the filter easily by myself ( Karen loves that), the only downside is I don't see exactly when to change, so I do it on schedule or when/if I start getting sluggish. I am watching this thread with great enthusiasm and I know you will do a great job on this. Now if you could figure out how to remotely relocate the secondary filter off the engine- wow, that would be great.

Safe travels to you and Tys. Hope to cya down the road sometime.

Re: Primary Fuel Filter upgrade options for Cummins ISC

Reply #7 – September 06, 2017, 08:11:27 pm

Regarding the mounting location for the Fuel Water Separator unit in relationship to the full level of the fuel tank, here is a quote directly from the Fleetguard Fuel Pro 230 (same unit as Davco 382) Installation Instructions;

Quote

CAUTION: The Fuel Pro functions BEST when installed so that the Filter Element is above the "FULL" level of the fuel tank. The housing can be installed up to 6' (1.8 m) below the "FULL" level of the fuel tank. Installing below the "FULL" level causes the starting level to be higher than normal.If mounted below full tank level, a shut off valve will be required at the inlet to allow filter changes without overflow of fuel. Mounting below 6' (1.8 m) eliminates the Seeing is Believing functionality.

So that is excellent news! I will be able to keep about half of the filter element above the full level if I locate the housing low enough to service the element in the current primary filter location above the chassis battery, so the "Seeing is Believing functionality" would be intact. As per the instructions quoted above, the unit itself can be up to 6 feet below the full level and still be functional, albeit with significantly reduced ability to asses the remaining filter element capacity. I suppose that scenario would only apply in boat, but I am relieved that I won't have to bend the laws of physics to mount it as high as possible without a complete relocation. I may do that anyway, but it is nice to have options. I am set to pick up my new old stock Davco 382 in Calgary after the weekend. The location is a bonus because I am saving a $40 shipping charge and I can start brainstorming where, how, and when I will put it in. I have options for a range of micron size filtration with this unit, varying from 2 micron to 50 micron. The Davco chart recommends 10 micron for Cummins applications, but I think that the FS1022 Fleetguard secondary engine mounted filter is 10 microns, but I can't seem to find a definitive answer to that. If the FS1022 is 2 microns on the other hand, I would think that a 25 micron element for the Davco unit would be appropriate. Open to thoughts on this matter...
Don

Quote from: Don & Tys (AKA acousticart) – September 05, 2017, 05:28:43 pm

FYI, the Fleetguard labeled version of the Davco 382 is branded as the Fleetguard Fuel Pro FH230 with more numbers following depending upon the configuration and options.
Don

Re: Primary Fuel Filter upgrade options for Cummins ISC

Reply #8 – September 06, 2017, 08:40:20 pm

It's common on boats to put a vacuum gauge on the fuel line down stream from the fuel filter to tell when the filter is getting dirty. It's normally a progressive issue, not sudden. Would that not work on an RV ?

wantabe

Re: Primary Fuel Filter upgrade options for Cummins ISC

Reply #9 – September 06, 2017, 08:47:46 pm

Don,

The last sentence in the quote has me puzzled: "Mounting below 6' (1.8 m) eliminates the Seeing is Believing functionality."

I find it contrary to a previous sentence: " Installing below the "FULL" level causes the starting level to be higher than normal."

I believe the second sentence is correct-- i.e. if below "full tank level" the seeing is believing/how restricted the filter is does not work. Let us know if you get clarification.

Re: Primary Fuel Filter upgrade options for Cummins ISC

Reply #10 – September 06, 2017, 08:53:59 pm

I am sure it would, though I think with the Davco system it will be easy enough to peak at the gradually rising level in the filter cover. If I was keeping the Racor system, the vacuum gauge would be an excellent supplement. In our case, the problem happened overnight. One day (the day after I diagnosed and fixed the secondary fuel filter leak and oil pressure sensor issue, two items apparently unrelated except in proximity of onset) we did 408 miles without a single issue, and the next ding ding ding goes the annunciator at the slightest load along with the dreaded stop engine light. The vacuum gauge downstream of the Racor primary would have certainly eased my mind had it indicated a restriction.
Don

Quote from: wantabe – September 06, 2017, 08:40:20 pm

It's common on boats to put a vacuum gauge on the fuel line down stream from the fuel filter to tell when the filter is getting dirty. It's normally a progressive issue, not sudden. Would that not work on an RV ?

wantabe

Re: Primary Fuel Filter upgrade options for Cummins ISC

Reply #11 – September 06, 2017, 09:35:46 pm

Don,

I bought a Davco 382 last year. Planning on installing this winter.

I've done some reading and found that for the DD 6v92 they recommend the 7 micron filter and most don't run a secondary filter. Worst case scenario the lower micron filter clogs sooner assuming the GPH is the same. Just my $.02.

Good news on mounting. I was a little worried my mounting location wouldn't be high enough. No longer a worry now.

see ya
ken

Re: Primary Fuel Filter upgrade options for Cummins ISC

Reply #12 – September 07, 2017, 12:10:49 am

They can be the only filters, but you might have to get a diverter cap kit to block off the engine mounted secondary if you have one. I could to that on our Cummins as well, if I read the chart correctly. We will see... I don't think I will do this project until the end of the year, but that could change.
Don

Quote from: kenhat – September 06, 2017, 09:35:46 pm

Don,

I bought a Davco 382 last year. Planning on installing this winter.

I've done some reading and found that for the DD 6v92 they recommend the 7 micron filter and most don't run a secondary filter. Worst case scenario the lower micron filter clogs sooner assuming the GPH is the same. Just my $.02.

Good news on mounting. I was a little worried my mounting location wouldn't be high enough. No longer a worry now.

see ya
ken

Re: Primary Fuel Filter upgrade options for Cummins ISC

Reply #13 – September 07, 2017, 07:31:19 am

As mentioned, it is common in the marine world to install a downstream gauge. Just as a FYI for others reading this thread this is what we did to monitor the status of the filter. The bus bar is also Dons innovation. Not finished with wire routing. The part is from Designated Engineering number DE1669.

Re: Primary Fuel Filter upgrade options for Cummins ISC

Reply #14 – September 07, 2017, 01:18:14 pm

Has anyone added the vacuum/compound gauges to the standard Racor filter housing?

Re: Primary Fuel Filter upgrade options for Cummins ISC

Reply #15 – September 08, 2017, 01:18:05 pm

I have been using a Davco 382 filter in the primary position on my Caterpillar 3126b for approx 7 years with no problems. I use a 7 micron fleetguard and a Caterpillar 2 micron in the secondary position. I change filters somewhere close to 3 years without ever getting to the top. I do carry spares. Works for me.
Bill

Re: Primary Fuel Filter upgrade options for Cummins ISC

Reply #16 – September 11, 2017, 01:58:26 pm

Update: I picked up the Davco 382 in Calgary today, and it is as advertised. It is a large unit. Of course I knew the dimensions, but it is an impressive bit of kit! The one I bought is a Detroit Diesel OEM new old stock part. The Davco part number guide lists this unit's options to include Fluid Heat with 12VDC 195W preheater. It has two heating elements slightly different in appearance which are plugged into the same wire harness, so it seems that it may have been meant for colder climates than we will be operating in. Below are some pictures of the actual unit. I paid $159.20 which I consider a heck of a deal, though local pick up saved me $40. Last I checked, he had one left. His auction title is "Detroit Diesel Fuel Processor 23533843", which may be one reason they haven't sold right away as most new old stock Davco 382 units are listed quite a bit higher.
Don

Re: Primary Fuel Filter upgrade options for Cummins ISC

Reply #17 – September 11, 2017, 02:09:16 pm

Thanks to you again Don, I am following suit. Found one and it is on its way. It's not new so will have to wait and see.

DAVCO 382 Fuel Filter Assembly 09-050 NO RESERVE! | eBay

Re: Primary Fuel Filter upgrade options for Cummins ISC

Reply #18 – September 11, 2017, 02:25:50 pm

Let us know where/how high you install it and what extra hoses it took (if any).

Thanks.

Re: Primary Fuel Filter upgrade options for Cummins ISC

Reply #19 – September 11, 2017, 04:21:40 pm

This is the only fuel filter used on my Newell with a series 60 Detroit 500 HP. I never had any problems and was very easy to service. I wish my 04 Foretravel had this set-up.

Re: Primary Fuel Filter upgrade options for Cummins ISC

Reply #20 – September 11, 2017, 07:39:09 pm

Thanks for the input! Regarding the last part, when I do our Davco 382 installation, you can bet that I will post what is involved in the conversion. I see this as a step one to several fuel delivery mods that I am contemplating. I have much research yet to do, but I will post my findings and questions as I go.
Don

Quote from: qcj – September 11, 2017, 04:21:40 pm

This is the only fuel filter used on my Newell with a series 60 Detroit 500 HP. I never had any problems and was very easy to service. I wish my 04 Foretravel had this set-up.

Re: Primary Fuel Filter upgrade options for Cummins ISC

Reply #21 – September 11, 2017, 09:57:11 pm

Brett,
I missed this post earlier... easy to do when reading it by iPhone. Maybe time for a new bigger one! My theory about the meaning of this paragraph (this is from the Cummins FH230 Fuel Pro technical manual) is that if the mounting of the 382 is above the full tank level, the level you see in the glass bowl will be starting from the lowest possible point and rise until the filter media is saturated with contaminants. But if the filter element is below the full level of the tank, the level in the clear bowl will start at a higher point because the atmospheric pressure trapped in the bowl will be overcome by the siphoning action from the tank. In other words, optimal mounting provides a more accurate representation of the restriction level of the filter element at the installation of a new element and maintains that correspondence until the filter element bowl fuel level indicates that it is time to change it. Conversely, mounting the the filter element below the full tank level causes the level in a new element to start higher, but as the level goes higher over time, eventually the level in the clear bowl rises. Possibly, as it approaches the top of the bowl, the progress slows. I will be asking Davco tech support for clarification, which so far has been very helpful and answered my questions promptly. The Davco installation instructions varies from the Cummins, in that Davco says the filter must be mounted higher than the fuel tank full level. The Davco tech told me that the Fleetguard FH230 (Cummins Filtration division), is the same unit as the Davco 382 and the instructions on the FH230 applies equally to the Davco 382. Like I said, I will clarify with Davco tech support. Still, I would prefer the optimal location for ease of service as well as mounting elevation. If at all possible, I will mount it in a way that satisfies both of those requirements.
Don

Quote from: wolfe10 – September 06, 2017, 08:47:46 pm

Don,
The last sentence in the quote has me puzzled: "Mounting below 6' (1.8 m) eliminates the Seeing is Believing functionality."
I find it contrary to a previous sentence: " Installing below the "FULL" level causes the starting level to be higher than normal."
I believe the second sentence is correct-- i.e. if below "full tank level" the seeing is believing/how restricted the filter is does not work. Let us know if you get clarification.

Re: Primary Fuel Filter upgrade options for Cummins ISC

Reply #22 – September 12, 2017, 08:52:27 am

Don,

That is my understanding as well. High or low works equally well as far as filtration.

Mounting about the tank level adds an easy "eye ball" check of restriction by just seeing fuel level in the filter.

Re: Primary Fuel Filter upgrade options for Cummins ISC

Reply #23 – September 12, 2017, 09:19:17 am

FYI...my 2007 coach has this same primary Fuel Pro filter/water separator installed (the Fleetguard version) as standard equipment from Foretravel. It has worked well. Along with the secondary on engine fuel filter. Never had the fuel level get above the top of the element though. Always change it well before that.

Re: Primary Fuel Filter upgrade options for Cummins ISC

Reply #24 – September 12, 2017, 09:33:03 am

Quote from: brrving – September 12, 2017, 09:19:17 am

FYI...my 2007 coach has this same primary Fuel Pro filter/water separator installed (the Fleetguard version) as standard equipment from Foretravel.

How high/where is it mounted compared with level of top of fuel tank?

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