Complete LED replacement with multiple methods. Links to items and lessons.

Topic: Complete LED replacement with multiple methods. Links to items and lessons. (Read 2004 times) previous topic - next topic

Complete LED replacement with multiple methods. Links to items and lessons.

October 09, 2017, 01:59:35 pm

Just finished replacing every bulb in the coach with some sort of LED lighting, with the exception of the tube lights in the storage bay and the map light above the driver's chair. More from curiosity than anything else, I used a bunch of different methods for the different types of lights.

General Lessons:
1) Different products with similar color ratings (3000K warm white through 7000k blue light) had colors that matched MUCH more poorly than I imagined. If light color consistency is important to you, I would recommend sticking to one brand so that the light ratings are more consistent.

2) For about the same amount of light produced, the LED versions used about 30% of the energy that the original version used. Some were a little better, some were a little worse.

3) If I didn't have a 3 week old, a 2 year old, or a job, I would have installed one of each replacement type (strip lighting reel, prewired strip, dedicated bulb replacement), decided which one I liked best, and then pulled out the others and done the same thing across the entire coach. But I do have those things, so I didn't! (Related side note: According to my individual internet research that may or may not be accurate: No 12V replacement bulb exists for the U-Bulb in the ceiling fixtures [FX36BX/835]. So that is not an option there. There are several 120V version that aren't well marked, however, so buyer beware!)

The fixtures (with links, foreforum amazon referral friendly where applicable, I think? If not, Mods please feel free to fix):

1) F15T8 bulb fixtures (bedroom and under cabinets). Replaced with a 12V LED dedicated T8 bulb: EverSale.com : LED F15T8 (Eq to 15W CFL) Tube Lamp 7W 18 inch 10-30VDC...

Energy use before: 2.0-2.2 amps
Energy use after: 1.2 amps for pair, 0.6 amps for single bulb.
Number replaced: 7 fixtures with 2 bulbs each.

These are super bright. After installing them all, I went back and removed one bulb from each pair. Two bulbs was WAY TOO BRIGHT for me. One bulb is almost the exact same amount of light as the original florescent pair, at about 30% of the original energy cost. They did require ballast removal, and these were 2 way LED builds, which means I had to wire in one side of the fixture as all +, and the other side as all -. This required adding about 6 inches of my own wire to each fixture.

On an energy-used-to-light-produced ratio - this was by far the best option. About twice as efficient as the (low quality) LED strip lighting I bought. Not coincidentally, these were also BY FAR the most expensive per-bulb replacement.

2) Ceiling Light U-Bulbs - Replaced with LED strip lighting. I used one each of the waterproof and non waterproof versions of: Amazon.com: 5050 Warm White LED Light Strip - 150 LEDs, 3000K, 109 Lumens &...

And these strip connectors: EvZ 10PCS LED 5050 Single Colour Strip Light Connector 2 Pin Conductor 10 mm...

Replacing the light produced by the one U-Bulb required approximately 60 LED lights, or a little over 6 feet of the stripping I chose. There are so many different ways to wire these. One fixture I did 5 individual strips all hooked together with the twist cap. One fixture I just did one long strip wrapped back and forth creatively a few times using some extra mounting tape just in case. Depends on whether you want a cleaner install, or an easier one! From a light production standpoint, I couldn't tell the difference. I was a little disappointed in this stripping, both from a color and light produced standpoint. Perhaps I should have bought a higher quality strip with LED lights that were closer together on the strips. Does require ballast removal.

Energy use before: 2.6 - 3.0 amps
Energy use after: 1.0 amp
Number replaced: 4 fixtures, 1 bulb each.

3) Porch Light -
Amazon.com: Cabin Bright - 8-12 Inch 12 Volt LED Fluorescent Tube Replacement...

These are essentially like dense LED lighting strips where the wiring work has already been done for you - meant to replace any bulb between 8-12 inches in lenth. I liked these. Easy to use, good light production. More expensive than stripping, less expensive than "bulbs." If I could do it again, I would probably find longer versions of these to replace the ceiling U-Bulb lights. Did require ballast removal - for the porch light getting access to the ballast was a huge pain (as it is well protected from the rain, tucked in nice and deep!).

Energy use: Whoops forgot to compare.

4) 1004 bulbs - In the bedside and couch fixtures. Direct swap in - remove the old light, pop in the new one.
Amazon.com: GRV Ba15d 1142 1004 High Power Car LED Bulb 24-5050SMD DC12V...

Energy use: Very comparable light, .4 amps for a pair instead of 1.8-2amps.

5) 1141 bulbs - in the captain chair overhead lights. I got these in bright bright white instead of the warm white of the others, assuming they would be used mostly for quick use at night while driving. Direct swap in - remove the old light, pop in the new one.
Amazon.com: New generation 12-24v !Super Bright Low Power !5 x 650 Lumens...

Energy use: 0.3 amps instead of 1.0-1.2 amps for each bulb.

6) Bathroom vanity bulbs (maybe these are 1003? I forget) - only marginal energy savings on these bulbs, but they are plenty bright. Direct swap in - remove the old light, pop in the new one.
Amazon.com: 2 x Gold Stars 20990080-02 LED Vanity Light 20-99/1156 Base 130...

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Re: Complete LED replacement with multiple methods. Links to items and lessons.

Reply #1 – October 09, 2017, 03:21:52 pm

Can you please let us know when these different types of LEDs start burning out? I've had a terrible time with LEDs so far, both in my coach and at work. Great Sand Dunes national park bought many thousands of dollars worth of LED tubes to replace fluorescent tubes and we've lost somewhere between 100-200 of them in less than two years. I've bought many different types of LEDs for the interior of my coach and almost all of them have burned out within a couple of years. The newest ones I have are Sylvania LEDs and I haven't lost any of them yet, but they're only a month or so old. NPS also has a bunch of trailers with LED tail lights and a large percentage of those have burned out within a couple of years... so this is why I'm asking you to let us know when they start to burn out, so we can figure out which ones are durable.

Re: Complete LED replacement with multiple methods. Links to items and lessons.

Reply #2 – October 09, 2017, 04:57:01 pm

Absolutely, will do. I have read that the bulbs that are supposed to be straight swaps (and still function with the ballast in) are more susceptible to burnout. Probably not pertinent for you but just thought I'd mention it while the topic was brought up.

Re: Complete LED replacement with multiple methods. Links to items and lessons.

Reply #3 – October 09, 2017, 06:39:45 pm

I haven't experienced any LEDs that work with ballasts still in. My theory is that the more closely packed the diodes are the more they tend to overheat each other. I think the manufacturers normally use the excuse that there was a voltage fluctuation that burned out the LEDs. Whatever the cause, standard incandescents last a lot longer in my experience so far. I like the idea of LEDs conserving battery life, but I need something durable, especially for the price.

Re: Complete LED replacement with multiple methods. Links to items and lessons.

Reply #4 – October 09, 2017, 07:45:22 pm

I wonder if the light conversions using the LED strips will be longer lasting than the replacement LED bulbs. With the strips, you don't need to use the ballast, so it is often completely removed. I have had my strip conversion lights running for a year with zero failures. I know other members have had theirs up for much longer. Be interesting to see how long the strip lights live.

Re: Complete LED replacement with multiple methods. Links to items and lessons.

Reply #5 – October 09, 2017, 09:23:23 pm

Many of us have replaced the original bulbs with LED lighting. Like others, I simply gutted the old fixture and put in strips cut to the proper length. That was one of the first upgrades I did, about four years ago. So far, no problems with any of those. Some of the lights came with automotive-type bulbs, so I replaced them with automotive-type LED bulbs. Again, so far no problems.

I also replaced some of the lights on the Jeep with LED bulbs. One of the taillight bulbs burned out completely, and the matching one on the other side had some elements out. I put the original bulbs back in.

Re: Complete LED replacement with multiple methods. Links to items and lessons.

Reply #6 – October 09, 2017, 09:52:25 pm

Using lights that eliminate the ballast should last longer and generate a lot less heat. My shop is 100% LED 4ft shop lights, 1 failure in the 4 years, about 20 lights.
My bus is also 100 % cheap EBay LED strips. Fixed with the 3M auto trim tape . The ballast interferes with the full length install. I am very happy with the lights and removed about 1/3 of the fixtures.

Not long enough to report IMHO at about 6 months of use or less. Best improvement is the motion LED in the water closet.
E bay stuff has to work now days as the poor feedback= low sales.

Re: Complete LED replacement with multiple methods. Links to items and lessons.

Reply #7 – October 10, 2017, 12:14:42 am

Forgot to mention that I did the two under-sink "night lights" using the LED strip as well. For the stairwell, bought a 3 inch diameter flat LED closet-type light that I mounted on the wall over hole from the old step light. Very pleased with those.

Re: Complete LED replacement with multiple methods. Links to items and lessons.

Reply #8 – October 10, 2017, 10:51:11 am

Have you replace the two bulbs in/under the microwave with LEDs? The ones controlled by the microwave's "Light" button.

KINDEEP Ceramic E17 LED Bulb for Microwave Oven Appliance, 5W (40W Halogen...

We did that a few months ago and the light is nice and bright, generates less heat, and is great task lighting when working at the stove, kitchen counters, etc.

Chris

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Re: Complete LED replacement with multiple methods. Links to items and lessons.

Reply #9 – October 10, 2017, 03:55:20 pm

Seven years ago I also replaced all interior bulbs with LED lights, adopting different schemes. I have had zero failures in seven years.

For the fluorescence bulbs, I removed the ballast and used 3M auto trim 2-sided tape with LED strips using one, two, or three strips depending on desired brightness for the location. Each strip uses 1/4 amp. The front fixture got three, the centre fixture (kitchen) got three, the refer/pantry fixture got one, the bathroom mirror fixture got two, and the shower fixture got three. I bought a roll of strips at Quartzsite.

For the puck lights, I replaced the entire fixtures with frosted glass fixtures with permanent bulbs. The OEM fixtures had thin gold plastic retaining rings which held the glass. These gold rings are fragile and half of them were broken (common problem for mid nineties coaches). Later coaches had thick gold retaining rings which are not fragile. The thirty fixtures were purchased at Quartzsite, costing $18 each, so $540 total. Many hours spent removing old and installing new. These frosted glass fixtures are used in many new motorhomes today. I replaced the 29 OEM puck lights and added a puck light over the entrance.

For bayonet bulb replacement, I purchased 30 G4 LED replacements from Hong Kong. The cost was $1 plus $2 shipping, so $3 each and $90 total. I built my own bayonet bulbs by breaking the glass off old bulbs and soldering the G4 to the bayonet. The cost was $3 per bulb plus time, when bayonet bulbs were $15-$20 each. The living room wall fixture and bedroom fixtures were modified from dual contact fixtures to single contact fixtures because the single contact bulbs seldom loose contact, while the dual contact bulbs seldom work for a month without intervention.

For the aisle lights, I dismantled the G4 LED replacements from Hong Kong and discovered they were built from four strips, each with 6 LEDs and a "puck driver" plus a single LED on the top (with a resister). So this G4 LED replacement was made from five 9.5 volt LED strips soldered together. I replaced each aisle light bulb with one of these 6 LED strips. I also added aisle lights in the living room and bedroom and added switches to the bedroom door and over the bed.

For LED lights to have a long life, the voltage to each LED must be limited to circa 1.5 volts. At 2.5 volts, LED life is hours and at 3 volts - blackness. Most manufacturers use multiple LEDs to build 9.5 volt bulbs and limit the voltage reaching the LEDs by using a voltage limiter (puck driver). Robust puck drivers will tolerate 15 volts input but not all puck drivers will. LED lights without a puck driver will not last long in a motorhome with alternator charging or solar charging.

Re: Complete LED replacement with multiple methods. Links to items and lessons.

Reply #10 – October 10, 2017, 03:58:05 pm

For the microwave lights, I replaced the 40 watt incandescent bulbs with 7 watt christmas tree bulbs after scraping the paint off the bulbs. Not as bright as LED, but bright enough with other lights on and the price is right!

Re: Complete LED replacement with multiple methods. Links to items and lessons.

Reply #11 – October 10, 2017, 04:02:34 pm

The other factor with LEDs, which has already been mentioned in this tread, is the colour. I used warm white (yellow) in most locations but stark white over the bed for reading.

I forgot to mention that I replaced the map light bulb on the passenger side with the same LEDs used in the aisle lights - this was tricky and required innovative soldering.

Re: Complete LED replacement with multiple methods. Links to items and lessons.

Reply #12 – October 10, 2017, 04:03:55 pm

Quote from: Numbers – October 10, 2017, 10:51:11 am

Have you replace the two bulbs in/under the microwave with LEDs? The ones controlled by the microwave's "Light" button.

KINDEEP Ceramic E17 LED Bulb for Microwave Oven Appliance, 5W (40W Halogen...

We did that a few months ago and the light is nice and bright, generates less heat, and is great task lighting when working at the stove, kitchen counters, etc.

Chris

Great suggestion! I actually don't keep the microwave plugged in unless it is actively being used, so I never thought to do that. Although we do have two good lights now in the kitchen that don't use much energy... maybe I'll ask the DW for her opinion. Thanks!

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Re: Complete LED replacement with multiple methods. Links to items and lessons.

Reply #13 – October 10, 2017, 11:28:54 pm

None of the led strips that I have installed have burned out, but I'm not a full timer, so not too much use. I have read that some strips mounted on metal tend to burnout because of shorts through the adhesive tape or deterioration of the adhesive. I mounted my strips on some leftover thin lexan installed in the gutted fluorescent fixtures . High voltage will cause an led to burn brighter and shorten the life.

Re: Complete LED replacement with multiple methods. Links to items and lessons.

Reply #14 – October 11, 2017, 01:05:09 am

Here's one example of what I always seem to experience with LEDs in my coach. I replaced a standard Edison base 12 volt bulb in the range hood with an LED bulb a couple of years ago. It started flickering constantly immediately after I installed it. It gets dimmer and dimmer as time goes by so I finally took the diffuser off to look at the diodes and found 18 of them burned out with only 21 of them still lit and various diodes flickering. This is what always happens to LEDs in my coach. I have one bulb with only 2 diodes still functioning and 11 burned out, but at least none of them are flickering on that particular bulb. I've lost at least a dozen other LED bulbs, usually they start flickering wildly like a disco strobe, then burn out completely. I haven't tried strip lights in my coach yet. We have some strip lights at work that are still functioning after a couple of years of constant use but most of the drivers have failed. As soon as we find new drivers for them we'll have the two year old LEDs working again. We lost between 100-200 of the 500 super expensive LED wands installed less than two years ago at work. We removed all the ballasts and installed them according to the manufacturer's instructions. Usually the whole wand fails but sometimes half of the wand stays lit and the other half burns out. All of these LEDs that I've had experience with cost much more than ordinary incandescent bulbs. I usually end up putting the old incandescent back in again after the LED fails. I seldom use the fluorescent lights in my coach so I intend to leave them as is, because they work great when I do use them. I've only replaced my incandescent bulbs with LEDs to this point. I'm full time so admittedly I put a lot of hours on my LEDs. I hardly ever burn out an incandescent bulb even though I put so many hours on them that the glass gets black on the inside... I dunno, I'm just different than everyone else on this forum apparently.

Re: Complete LED replacement with multiple methods. Links to items and lessons.

Reply #15 – October 11, 2017, 11:12:39 am

Scott,

You don't need to be defensive because you like or have better luck with regular bulbs. Some people wouldn't have LED lights if they got paid to use them. They just prefer the look of incandescent bulbs. Kinda like the difference between vinyl records and CDs...It's all a matter of one's personal preference, taste, and choice. Use what works for you and what you like...do what makes you happy!

Re: Complete LED replacement with multiple methods. Links to items and lessons.

Reply #16 – October 11, 2017, 11:51:22 am

RRadio
Are the failing LED lights for 120VAC or 12 VDC?

If 120VAC, I would check the supply with an oscilloscope looking for big voltage spikes and/or install surge protectors to determine if they stop the carnage. Have other appliances or devices been damaged?

If 12 VDC, check your alternator or solar or converter output for high voltage spikes, a 17 volt spike, which is possible, will cook many puck drivers and the LEDs.

Re: Complete LED replacement with multiple methods. Links to items and lessons.

Reply #17 – October 11, 2017, 12:20:38 pm

Replaced all my overheads with strips of LEDs (warm white) over a year ago, pulled the ballasts. Replaced all my florescent side light bars with thin strip and LEDs, Haven't had an issue in over a year (except I had to solder the connections, the connectors aren't as reliable). No burnouts yet.

Re: Complete LED replacement with multiple methods. Links to items and lessons.

Reply #18 – October 11, 2017, 01:20:41 pm

HERO-LED SG4-12T-DW Side Pin G4 LED Disc Halogen Replacement Bulb, 2.4W, 20-25W Equal, Daylight White 5000K, 5-Pack(Not Dimmable)

I just checked ratings on Amazon and purchased one of the better rated ones. Replaced 16 and every one of them are still working 18 months later. Brighter, they don't get hot and use less amperage.

Re: Complete LED replacement with multiple methods. Links to items and lessons.

Reply #19 – October 11, 2017, 01:36:07 pm

Biggest consideration to me and many people that dry camp and do not like to run their generator, is wattage. My present coach had over 45, 10 watt puck lights. If all on, 450 watt draw on my batteries, replaced all with 1 watt leds, so now 1/10 the wattage used.

Re: Complete LED replacement with multiple methods. Links to items and lessons.

Reply #20 – October 11, 2017, 07:52:59 pm

Wyatt,

The LED wands that we lost over 100 of at work are 120 volt AC. No other devices have been damaged. I doubt we'll be installing surge protectors on all the light fixtures in the park.

The LEDs in my coach are 12 volt DC. I don't have solar and I never use the LEDs when the engine is running. The voltage is 13.7 or less when the LEDs burn out. I think it's a heat issue, not voltage. The LEDs I'm using replace incandescent bulbs and don't have any drivers.

I understand liking incandescent light better than fluorescent or LED and I agree. I really like the reduced battery drain of LEDs though. Eventually I'll probably find durable LEDs.

Re: Complete LED replacement with multiple methods. Links to items and lessons.

Reply #21 – October 11, 2017, 09:06:43 pm

Lot7 New LED Tube Light Rigid Strip Bar Cool White 12V 36LED SMD5050 580LM...
I use these with no failures so far.

Re: Complete LED replacement with multiple methods. Links to items and lessons.

Reply #22 – October 12, 2017, 10:18:45 am

I replaced puck light with G4 bought in ebay. Love them. Problem is, a few don't light up unless I wiggle them. I don't know why some changed out fine and others didn't, but I think I have to replace the connector or direct solder the two pins. Anyone had this happen to them? Where can I buy the little connectors to change out the non working bulbs??

Re: Complete LED replacement with multiple methods. Links to items and lessons.

Reply #23 – October 12, 2017, 11:38:45 am

Glenn:
The two thin leads on the G4 LED replacements may not put enough pressure on the contractors in the sockets.
I would try tinning the leads with solder to see if this helps. Be sure to put a heat sink near the LED so you do not overheat what the lead is connected to.

Re: Complete LED replacement with multiple methods. Links to items and lessons.

Reply #24 – October 12, 2017, 01:55:20 pm

I thought that the pins on my G4 LED's might be a tad long (1/16" - 1/8"). Trimming all of them is on my list, but way down at the bottom. Actually, it leaves them at a slight angle in the right direction. May take care of that task with an eraser.

Trent

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