Value of a heat pump/strip added to the AC...

Topic: Value of a heat pump/strip added to the AC... (Read 895 times) previous topic - next topic

Value of a heat pump/strip added to the AC...

October 13, 2017, 04:46:44 pm

Looks like our front Dometic AC may have wore itself out - not cooling at all anymore. In looking for replacements, I've been contemplating the value of one with a heat strip/pump. Our rear AC has one which has been nice on occasion however, the Aquahot, on electric is less noisy and warms more evenly.

Why would the heat pump/strip be needed when we have the Aquahot? Backup?

Re: Value of a heat pump/strip added to the AC...

Reply #1 – October 13, 2017, 04:57:17 pm

Different folks have different ideas about the heat strips. We have them in both of our roof A/C units, and we have never used them. (I do turn them on once a year to see if they still work, but that's it.) I don't want to listen to the noise of the fan in the roof unit just to get a little heat. We much prefer using a few (2 or 3) small electric ceramic heaters with thermostatic controls. They are inexpensive, cut on and off as necessary, make only a little "background" noise, and use less electricity. For serious heat needs, we use our propane heaters.

But that's just us...

Re: Value of a heat pump/strip added to the AC...

Reply #2 – October 13, 2017, 05:54:45 pm

Quote from: Bill & Kim – October 13, 2017, 04:46:44 pm

In looking for replacements, I've been contemplating the value of one with a heat strip/pump.

Bill,

There is a big difference in a heat pump A/C unit and one that has a heat strip. Do your research on which one you really want/need. We have A/C units with heat strips not heat pumps, we never use our heat strips.

Pamela & Mike

Re: Value of a heat pump/strip added to the AC...

Reply #3 – October 13, 2017, 06:22:53 pm

Yes for the extra couple of hundred bucks, a good back up to the aquahot and about double the output of a heat strip. If not too cold, [high 40's] I run the front ac in heat pump mode and close fwd ducts and open bedroom ones when sleeping. I stay warm and it is not too noisy.

Re: Value of a heat pump/strip added to the AC...

Reply #4 – October 13, 2017, 07:34:56 pm

Roof air is poor place to have heat sources. There are many ways to heat, but only one way to cool, so why wear out roof air for heating. Heat also likes to rise, not drop, while cooling likes to drop, not rise. Save money and maintenance issues and buy roof air without heating.

Re: Value of a heat pump/strip added to the AC...

Reply #5 – October 13, 2017, 08:18:40 pm

I would recommend having someone look at it first to see if it can repaired. Your thermostat is set up for heat pump on your brand of ac. Changing types, or models of air conditioners will probably necessitate changing thermostats, or unit boards or more.
My present coach has newer style ac/heat pump units and new thermostat wiring etc was an extra $450 on top of cost of new units. Have had some coaches with 20+ year old units, Normally just a component wears out and need replacing, like a capacitor or valve. Much cheaper repairing that replacing.

Re: Value of a heat pump/strip added to the AC...

Reply #6 – October 13, 2017, 08:24:54 pm

I installed a Atwood 15K heatpump up front, The A/C works great and I love it so far. It also blows nice warm air on heat pump and should work just fine for the small amount of time we actually have to use the darn thing!My reason was, I can heat the bus with the campground electric if I'm paying and plugged in. Otherwise we use the propane furnaces.

Re: Value of a heat pump/strip added to the AC...

Reply #7 – October 13, 2017, 08:44:12 pm

Quote from: Pamela & Mike – October 13, 2017, 05:54:45 pm

Bill,
There is a big difference in a heat pump A/C unit and one that has a heat strip. Do your research on which one you really want/need. We have A/C units with heat strips not heat pumps, we never use our heat strips.
Pamela & Mike

. Yup, well aware of the difference - guess I should have not used the "/" between 'em in defining the question... point was why add either when the aquahot is available.
.

Quote from: jcus – October 13, 2017, 08:18:40 pm

I would recommend having someone look at it first to see if it can repaired. Your thermostat is set up for heat pump on your brand of ac. Changing types, or models of air conditioners will probably necessitate changing thermostats, or unit boards or more.
My present coach has newer style ac/heat pump units and new thermostat wiring etc was an extra $450 on top of cost of new units. Have had some coaches with 20+ year old units, Normally just a component wears out and need replacing, like a capacitor or valve. Much cheaper repairing that replacing.

Have been thinking about that and what a change in unit would require in terms of the thermostat AND with our travels taking us to Tucson in a couple weeks, not sure who'd know Foretravel & how it's all wired (Lazy Days, Camping World...

). Certainly will have it checked out before replacing it, Jim. ... that extra $450 makes this about a $1700 fix...

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – October 13, 2017, 04:57:17 pm

Different folks have different ideas about the heat strips. We have them in both of our roof A/C units, and we have never used them. (I do turn them on once a year to see if they still work, but that's it.) I don't want to listen to the noise of the fan in the roof unit just to get a little heat. We much prefer using a few (2 or 3) small electric ceramic heaters with thermostatic controls. They are inexpensive, cut on and off as necessary, make only a little "background" noise, and use less electricity. For serious heat needs, we use our propane heaters.
But that's just us...

We used a couple ceramic heaters in our Airstream (34' with slide), which did the job very well in keeping us warm... better job than a heat strip and a whole lot less noise!

While we've been here in Silver City, there's been a couple of nights of 40 & maybe a couple degrees under where the heat pump stayed on a lot pushing cool air... so I turned on the Aquahot (elec.), and it performed flawlessly. And quietly. Thinking that my replacement (if needed), will be sans heat strip/pump.

Now, providing I go with a replacement Dometic, hopefully I'll be able to keep the same thermostat...

Re: Value of a heat pump/strip added to the AC...

Reply #8 – October 13, 2017, 08:55:00 pm

...what Jim C said, if you have two identical units swap parts between the two until you isolate what is wrong, don't buy one of these new R410a units except as a last resort, you're not gonna like it as much as your old R22 unit so you should fix it if possible

Re: Value of a heat pump/strip added to the AC...

Reply #9 – October 13, 2017, 09:13:54 pm

I do not see the value of heat strips.

IF, repeat IF you camp where ambient temperatures are above 40 degrees F and you want heating, a heat pump is a reasonable alternative. Below that, they do not work.

So, determine where/how you will be using the coach and then decide on whether a heat pump is a worthwhile upgrade.

Re: Value of a heat pump/strip added to the AC...

Reply #10 – October 13, 2017, 09:14:33 pm

Quote from: RRadio – October 13, 2017, 08:55:00 pm

if you have two identical units swap parts between the two until you isolate what is wrong, don't buy one of these new R410a units except as a last resort, you're not gonna like it as much as your old R22 unit so you should fix it if possible

Good plan, Scott.

Re: Value of a heat pump/strip added to the AC...

Reply #11 – October 13, 2017, 09:15:54 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – October 13, 2017, 09:13:54 pm

I do not see the value of heat strips.

IF, repeat IF you camp where ambient temperatures are above 40 degrees F and you want heating, a heat pump is a reasonable alternative. Below that, they do not work.

So, determine where/how you will be using the coach and then decide on whether a heat pump is a worthwhile upgrade.

Why use the heat pump when the Aquahot on electric is available, Brett? Lot less noisy and more even heat...

Re: Value of a heat pump/strip added to the AC...

Reply #12 – October 13, 2017, 09:18:33 pm

Quote from: Bill & Kim – October 13, 2017, 09:15:54 pm

Why use the heat pump when the Aquahot on electric is available, Brett? Lot less noisy and more even heat...

If you are not paying for electricity, no reason at all.

But, a heat pump operating between 40 and 60 degrees F is more efficient than a resistance heating element (aquahot or heat strips).

Re: Value of a heat pump/strip added to the AC...

Reply #13 – October 13, 2017, 09:26:06 pm

"Have been thinking about that and what a change in unit would require in terms of the thermostat AND with our travels taking us to Tucson in a couple weeks, not sure who'd know Foretravel & how it's all wired (Lazy Days, Camping World...

). Certainly will have it checked out before replacing it, Jim. ... that extra $450 makes this about a $1700 fix..."
There is only 2 or 3 companies that make roof airs, so any fairly competent rv shops can look at your unit. thermostats are a little bit different because of the aqua-hot. Many shops do not understand how the aqua-hot interfaces, which is different than a furnace. If you have the 5 button thermostat, it may not be compatible with a newer ac whether it has a heat pump or heat strip or nothing at all. A common problem on our units is the reversing valve coil, have tech check this first, coil is only about $15 [plus labor]
Brett makes a good point, if you are paying for electricity, warming with heat pump far cheaper than aqua-hot resistance heating.

Re: Value of a heat pump/strip added to the AC...

Reply #14 – October 13, 2017, 09:32:22 pm

Quote from: jcus – October 13, 2017, 09:26:06 pm

If you have the 5 button thermostat, it may not be compatible with a newer ac whether it has a heat pump or heat strip or nothing at all. A common problem on our units is the reversing valve coil, have tech check this first, coil is only about $15 [plus labor]

And that 5 button (Duo-therm), Jim, is indeed what we have. Thanks for the heads up advice.
.

Re: Value of a heat pump/strip added to the AC...

Reply #15 – October 14, 2017, 01:41:22 am

The Fore's were dry campers originally and maybe old time preppers. Long ago most rv's and their systems were unreliable and service areas and expertise and parts were hardly available.

ALL the old motorcades had a foretravel coach with two mechanics and a pull vehicle with various parts and tools on it.

In 1984 we borrowed a 1978 35' dodge chassis ftx.

Driving through Portland at night the alternator died. Long ways from home.

Started gen. Turned on the intermittent boost switch and jammed a toothpick into the on portion of the switch to hold it on.

Now what? Driving along the river I spotted Foretravel labeled signs with an arrow on the bottom attached to trees. ?

Followed the signs to a camping area and it turns out there was a motorcade there for the night.

Mechanics waved high to me as I knew them.

Long story short the service trailer had a alternator on it and the fixed it for me on the spot.

Foretravel luck.

Old time rvers ALWAYS had backup systems

Our 97 is probably near the end of that line of reasoning.

Propane stove top and a microwave. Inverter and generator. Aqua hot with 110 volt and diesel. Heat strips that work at sub zero temps.

Availability of Diesel engine heat to supplement the aqua hot. Aqua hot to heat the motor for serious winter.

Ether start to fire motor if everything else fails. Separate batteries for backup.

Disk brakes and a retarder.

Top insulation. Laminated walls. Low center of gravity for better wind control.

Sealed heated tank bays, large fuel tanks.

Higher ground clearance.

33 years ago removing backup systems was not something to be done lightly.

No cell phones. No internet. Scattered service places.

I marvel at our 97 u320 as it's probably the culmination old style Rv.

Especially with a mid door.

19 models year later 1978 35' ftx.

No oven. Do miss that and the trash compactor.

I have been at minus 30 in old ftx and early gv.

"Why do you need backups good for extreme hot or cold conditions?

The real advantage to our coaches was the safe four season use. Most rvs were not made for hot or cold weather.

Aqua hot dies at below freezing weather the heat strips are it.

Plus the much shorter ac life running them in reverse according to my guru old buddy.

It's not the idea I intend to go into serious winter but the idea I can safely.

We like remove dry camping which most here are not into.

This Unicoach is the best dry camp weather insensitive RV I have seen

Worth more to us versus newer shinier more tender pretty coaches.

Old Foretravel manager and river talk.

Used to build coaches with tank heaters.

It was an adventure back then. Had a few dicey things happen then.

No way I am going to lessen any of the multiple backups in our coach.

Re: Value of a heat pump/strip added to the AC...

Reply #16 – October 14, 2017, 06:51:29 am

Quote from: Bill & Kim – October 13, 2017, 09:15:54 pm

Why use the heat pump when the Aquahot on electric is available, Brett? Lot less noisy and more even heat...

AquaHot will heat the domestic water side of things just fine on electric, but it will not keep up if you need it to provide "furnace" heat. You'll need to run the diesel burner for any significant coach heating.

Re: Value of a heat pump/strip added to the AC...

Reply #17 – October 14, 2017, 12:35:14 pm

Quote from: Michelle – October 14, 2017, 06:51:29 am

AquaHot will heat the domestic water side of things just fine on electric, but it will not keep up if you need it to provide "furnace" heat. You'll need to run the diesel burner for any significant coach heating.

Yep, the electric side does a great job with temps in the 40's and up and much quieter than the heat pump. Diesel gets fired up when temps drop below mid to late 30's.

I sure do love the aquahot...

Re: Value of a heat pump/strip added to the AC...

Reply #18 – October 14, 2017, 01:13:56 pm

I guess everyone has different demands for heat. In our 2001 for us the Aquahot on electric only is fine when overnight lows get to even the high 30s. But if it were averaging high 30s or lower then the diesel side of things would be on. Some like more warm than others.

Re: Value of a heat pump/strip added to the AC...

Reply #19 – October 14, 2017, 03:31:52 pm

I use the heat pumps on my coach on cool nights. If we are sleeping I use the front unit, during the day we use the rear unit. On very cold days we use the Aqua Hot with the Diesel and electric running. If the demand doesn't require it, the Diesel burner will not fire unless needed. In my Winnebago Itasca Suncruiser if my heat pump on the AC could not keep up my furnace would automatically kick in. Will our Aqua Hot do the same? I've never tested it.
John M.

Re: Value of a heat pump/strip added to the AC...

Reply #20 – October 14, 2017, 03:39:40 pm

I think the thermostat can only choose one or the other

Re: Value of a heat pump/strip added to the AC...

Reply #21 – October 14, 2017, 03:42:30 pm

The Aqua Hot fan coils react to a call for heat from your manufacture installed thermostats. If they automatically switch from heatpump to Aqua Hot, the answer is yes. You might consult the operating instructions for your thermostats for the answer.

Re: Value of a heat pump/strip added to the AC...

Reply #22 – October 14, 2017, 03:52:46 pm

Thanks Rudy, will do!
John M.

Re: Value of a heat pump/strip added to the AC...

Reply #23 – October 14, 2017, 04:57:19 pm

Quote from: John Morales – October 14, 2017, 03:31:52 pm

In my Winnebago Itasca Suncruiser if my heat pump on the AC could not keep up my furnace would automatically kick in. Will our Aqua Hot do the same? I've never tested it.
John M.

On our coach, the furnace (aqua hot), will not automatically go on if the heat pump can't keep up even if the AH is turned on. I have to manually turn the furnace on at the thermostat for the AH to engage and start heating.

And man, when it does, it's great!

Re: Value of a heat pump/strip added to the AC...

Reply #24 – October 15, 2017, 12:01:40 pm

Been in the Sierra's since Oct. 5th. the lows have not reached the 30's yet. All teens and 20's The Aqua Hot is getting a lot of use and it is nice and cozy in the coach. Not so when fishing. DW refuses to leave the coach except for a few hours in the afternoon when it reaches 50's. We are dry camping and heat strips or a heat pump would be almost useless.

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