Looks like I have to replace the fuel lines!

Topic: Looks like I have to replace the fuel lines! (Read 1649 times) previous topic - next topic

Looks like I have to replace the fuel lines!

October 14, 2017, 06:14:53 pm

Just got back from a trip down the Oregon coast on 101 to Napa CA. got there the day before the fires and left the day they closed the roads. On the way back in Kalamath Falls OR. bottomed out coming out of a parking lot and took the fuel filter out. Found a Cummins dealer put on a new filter and good to go. Checking for any leaks under the filter I found a good size area under the engine, problem is it's not coming from the filter but the fuel lines. I'm guessing supply and return lines. The larger of the two (1/2-3/4") connects just in front of the ECM (towards the front of the coach) the other is smaller and connects on the other side of the ECM. They both continue forward to the fuel tank, with an assortment of other hoses and wiring. Here's the questions: How hard is this going to be? Has any one done this before? The lines run with other hoses and are held to the coach body with zipties and brackets, then they disappear into the underbody above the basement! Haven't looked for them on the fuel tank yet. Any information/input would be greatly appreciated. The coach is a 1997 U320 with a 450 hp Cummins.
Thanks
Eric
PS The trip was great!

Re: Looks like I have to replace the fuel lines!

Reply #1 – October 14, 2017, 06:36:53 pm

Fuel Line replacement

Re: Looks like I have to replace the fuel lines!

Reply #2 – October 14, 2017, 06:49:49 pm

The rubber hose are killed by ultra low sulphur diesel. Replacement is required. Every line. Including the aqua hot.

The Winn fuel filter is a known vacuum leaker. Replace

Re: Looks like I have to replace the fuel lines!

Reply #3 – October 14, 2017, 08:07:36 pm

So, my '99 developed a leak to generator. For the fun of it chked with Foretravel. If they fix it, they pull tank and replace all fuel hoses...to engine and gen. In my case $5000.00. I patched hoses to gen. I guess it will be a matter of time.

Re: Looks like I have to replace the fuel lines!

Reply #4 – October 14, 2017, 08:19:39 pm

Thanks guys,
Traveling man that's the information I'm talking about! That gives me hope. I can fix a lot of things it just a matter of collecting the right info, and there's no way I'm paying 5Gs for fuel lines. That's gas money

Re: Looks like I have to replace the fuel lines!

Reply #5 – October 14, 2017, 09:33:44 pm

Yup, just did them. Piece of mind was worth it.
Piece of cake. Whole job cost me $200.00, gen and engine.
Cap the ends when you pull them out, to not spill fuel in the bays.
Chris

Re: Looks like I have to replace the fuel lines!

Reply #6 – October 14, 2017, 10:38:37 pm

Check Bernd, MOT and Old Town.

Mine were $3K at Bernd, and I have two more than a U-270 for aqua hot feed and return $5K seems high

Re: Looks like I have to replace the fuel lines!

Reply #7 – October 14, 2017, 11:37:18 pm

I paid Foretravel about $2K in late 2013 and we also have a 99' U270. Hard to believe that it has more than doubled since then... was that including other work?
Don

Quote from: Dennis Davis – October 14, 2017, 08:07:36 pm

So, my '99 developed a leak to generator. For the fun of it chked with Foretravel. If they fix it, they pull tank and replace all fuel hoses...to engine and gen. In my case $5000.00. I patched hoses to gen. I guess it will be a matter of time.

Re: Looks like I have to replace the fuel lines!

Reply #8 – October 15, 2017, 09:11:50 am

Gracerace,
Chris I see your previous post. You removed the door on the drivers side fuel tank and removed the tank. I take it there's enough slack in the hoses to do this? Does it matter which way you pull the hoses, towards the engine or towards the tank? Also It sounds like you purged the air out of the supply line by connecting a drill pump to the end and pulling the fuel from the tank to the pump? is that also correct? I'm going to start the pulling hoses today any other so any and all information is useful.
Thanks
Eric
U320, 450 Cummins

Re: Looks like I have to replace the fuel lines!

Reply #9 – October 15, 2017, 10:47:31 am

Quote from: Mobius – October 15, 2017, 09:11:50 am

Gracerace,
Chris I see your previous post. You removed the door on the drivers side fuel tank and removed the tank. I take it there's enough slack in the hoses to do this? Does it matter which way you pull the hoses, towards the engine or towards the tank? Also It sounds like you purged the air out of the supply line by connecting a drill pump to the end and pulling the fuel from the tank to the pump? is that also correct? I'm going to start the pulling hoses today any other so any and all information is useful.
Thanks
Eric
U320, 450 Cummins

Hi Eric
That is all correct. You do have to remove the compartment side molding, and hinge mount once the doors off.
The lines were tight coming out with the tank. If I was doing it again, I would unhook them, cap them, and pull them back from the engine and gen set.Other wise you need some of those open end wrenches, that attach to a socket set. End wrench's worked, but it was a hassle.Once the tank was out, I pulled them out of the coach toward the engine and gen set.
I blew air through all the lines once the tank was in place, before I went any further, to make sure nothing was pinched. The cheapo dill pump worked awesome. Just made a hose to flare nut adapter. Once I got fuel, and hooked the line up,hit the prime button a couple of times, it fired right up. No stumble.
Few other things. I cut the tie wraps at the LP tank, but didn't bother re-attaching that loom again.Too hard to reach in there. It just hangs there fine. The 2nd is I used a snake (chaser wire) at the rear, when I pulled the last line out. That area was tight, but they pulled through fine.I also had the line's made slightly longer.
I saw where MOT had left others old lines in place. I chose to remove mine. Glad I did. It was tight at the back. I also had them in hand to measure them.
FT tech couldn't give me any info on length, after waiting 2 days for a call back. I thought they would know, considering they replace them all the time.They didn't give me a type of hose either, just said they are nothing special, Napa can make them.
It just takes some time to do this job, no biggie (I am 69 3/4 yrs) Did it by myself.More of a hassle then anything because of the diesel fuel mess. My wife helped with the door, and friend helped with putting it back on. Wasn't hard at all.
Have fun, keep us posted.
Chris

Re: Looks like I have to replace the fuel lines!

Reply #10 – October 15, 2017, 10:51:40 am

Our side generator developed a leak in the feed line. I was able to reach the tank fitting and the replacement cost about $25 and thirty minutes of time. You don't even have to slide the generator out. Return line is dry so I'm leaving it alone.

Pierce

Re: Looks like I have to replace the fuel lines!

Reply #11 – October 15, 2017, 11:30:50 am

There is enough information here to do the job. The only thing I would add is there is a drain plug on the bottom of the tank that sits in a hole on the floor of the coach. The tank has to be lifted on the side it is coming out to get it started.

Re: Looks like I have to replace the fuel lines!

Reply #12 – October 15, 2017, 11:59:17 am

Quote from: craneman – October 15, 2017, 11:30:50 am

There is enough information here to do the job. The only thing I would add is there is a drain plug on the bottom of the tank that sits in a hole on the floor of the coach. The tank has to be lifted on the side it is coming out to get it started.

Yes. I had pumped pretty much all the fuel out of it.After the tank was out, I Pulled the plug, got another 10 gallons out, and flushed the tank just for good measure. Really didn't need to, it was clean.
Here is some more info I thought of when asked a question in an email:
Yes, the old lines could be used to pull the new one's in, once the zip ties were cut. It would be a hassle in my opinion, but could be done that way. I just wanted the old one's out so I could have them per-made, the length I wanted with the correct ends already on.
The only zip ties in our coach were behind the LP tank bundle. I don't remember any being in the belly when I pulled the cover off.The fuel lines were together by themselves. There were a few under the coach at the gen set and engine.
When I was done, I could pull the hoses freely back and forth before I put the belly cover on, and re-tied at the rear. Only place that was tight, was over the fresh and holding tanks. That is why I ran a snake.I was also careful in that area to not force them. There are lots of wires from the tank sender's in that area.
Another tid bit, is to be careful pulling and replacing the tank. You don't want to snag anything above it in that bundle with the brass fittings in the tank. I used 2x4's and a long stick, then pulled it out carefully. I was even more careful when re-installing it.A tech once broke a guys TV cable, and a couple of other wires putting the tank back in. They didn't know they did it, till they were all done, had to drain the tank, and pull everything apart again".
Chris

Re: Looks like I have to replace the fuel lines!

Reply #13 – October 15, 2017, 12:52:38 pm

Mobius,

On a '97 U320 I think you will find it easier to take the tank out the passengers side. That is the side that works best for me on '97 and early '98s.

Pamela & Mike

Re: Looks like I have to replace the fuel lines!

Reply #14 – October 15, 2017, 01:08:42 pm

A Foretravel is the only vehicle I have ever seen with rubber hoses for fuel lines. Why not replace with copper lines inside a split vinyl tubing? Short hoses to the engine, generator, tank.

50' 1/2" copper coil for a little over $80 at: Shop Mueller Streamline 1/2-in dia x 50-ft L Coil Copper Pipe at Lowes.com

Pierce

Re: Looks like I have to replace the fuel lines!

Reply #15 – October 15, 2017, 01:23:56 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – October 15, 2017, 01:08:42 pm

A Foretravel is the only vehicle I have ever seen with rubber hoses for fuel lines. Why not replace with copper lines inside a split vinyl tubing? Short hoses to the engine, generator, tank.

50' 1/2" copper coil for a little over $80 at: Shop Mueller Streamline 1/2-in dia x 50-ft L Coil Copper Pipe at Lowes.com

Pierce

That would be a big hassle, create more places for leaks...So why? Once you have new hose's, you will have another 20+ years. I don't plan on being around then!
Everything pre-made cost me $200.00
Chris

Re: Looks like I have to replace the fuel lines!

Reply #16 – October 15, 2017, 01:26:21 pm

Quote from: Pamela & Mike – October 15, 2017, 12:52:38 pm

Mobius,

On a '97 U320 I think you will find it easier to take the tank out the passengers side. That is the side that works best for me on '97 and early '98s.

Pamela & Mike

Not sure about your coach, but my return lines for the gen and engine were right at the drivers side, top of tank. The pickups are in the middle, slightly closer to the dr side. Take the side covers off, and look in there with a flash light,then you can determine which side to pull the tank out of. Mobius may be right for your coach
Chris

Re: Looks like I have to replace the fuel lines!

Reply #17 – October 15, 2017, 02:38:02 pm

Chris,

On his (Mobius's) 320 the hoses should be just backward to what you have on your 295. It will depend also on how early his '97 is.

Pamela & Mike

Re: Looks like I have to replace the fuel lines!

Reply #18 – October 15, 2017, 02:43:49 pm

Quote from: Pamela & Mike – October 15, 2017, 02:38:02 pm

Chris,

On his (Mobius's) 320 the hoses should be just backward to what you have on your 295. It will depend also on how early his '97 is.

Pamela & Mike

Thanks. Ours is a Cat too, so there is some difference. Probably not in the hose length's. Don't think it would make a difference on the feed lines.
The aqua Hot probably makes the difference.
Cheers

Re: Looks like I have to replace the fuel lines!

Reply #19 – October 15, 2017, 05:42:12 pm

Quote from: Dennis Davis – October 14, 2017, 08:07:36 pm

So, my '99 developed a leak to generator. For the fun of it chked with Foretravel. If they fix it, they pull tank and replace all fuel hoses...to engine and gen. In my case $5000.00. I patched hoses to gen. I guess it will be a matter of time.

That sounds way high! FOT did all the lines in our 99 U270 36' in 2013 for $2000. I would check with MOT or Berndt.

Re: Looks like I have to replace the fuel lines!

Reply #20 – October 15, 2017, 06:11:31 pm

For those of you in Texas give Beau Reece a call. He changed ours out in the driveway at our home and did an excellent job!

Glen

Re: Looks like I have to replace the fuel lines!

Reply #21 – October 15, 2017, 07:50:17 pm

I'm installing a new pre-filter on my fuel line.
I went to a place called Pirtex I believe they are a national company, and bought some fuel line fittings, a fuel valve and a fuel pressure gauge.
The tech selling me the parts explained that they have mobile techs that will come to your truck or RV and install the lines there making all the fittings on location. They charge $90 per hour and have a $80 service call fee.
I may use them in the near future.

Re: Looks like I have to replace the fuel lines!

Reply #22 – October 15, 2017, 09:12:31 pm

Update:

First of all I'm still in calm down mode, I've been chanting "goos-fra-ba" (from the movie Anger Management) for the last ten minutes. Along with the alcohol my vision is almost back to normal. Second, I think that is the WORST design for a fuel system ever and I hope the person that designed was fired! Third, I'll take back number two only if one of the previous owners had work done on the fuel system and left this mess for the next guy.

After reading Gracerace's post and looking at my fuel tank, I figured it was going to come out on the passenger side, there's two 2" pvc pipes, possible vents? on the drivers side just at tank top level. So I removed the passenger side door, door bracket, door molding with weather stripping and unbolted the tank and removed the fuel from the tank. That was the easy part!

The biggest problem I had was the wadded up mess of wiring, probably an extra 3-4' in loom, zip tied together bundled up on top of the tank some of which was under some of the fuel lines and fittings. Along with the almost zero clearance on both sides and with some of the return fittings hitting their ceiling. I ended up removing the door etc.. on the other side along with the 2" vent pipe and tried to remove it that way. Again the fuel connections at the center of the tank were tangled in the wiring. So back the other way but this time I was able cut the zip ties, hook the wires and hold them out of the way. Anyhow 7 hours later its out! The other issue was the lines barely cleared the coach before I had to disconnect them, there about 2' to short.

The easy solution to this would have been to put all the supply/return lines at one end (not in the middle) of the tank. Pull the tank out 6" disconnect your lines, your done!

On the good side these hoses really needed to be replaced, as I was pulling on them they were starting to weep and the fuel was bleeding through the hose. In places that had previously looked okay! Don't wait.

Tomorrow I'll be pulling the hoses off and getting new ones made up (yes a couple feet longer) and hopefully it will go back together a little easier.

Thanks all I will keep you updated

Re: Looks like I have to replace the fuel lines!

Reply #23 – October 15, 2017, 10:07:53 pm

Quote from: Mobius – October 15, 2017, 09:12:31 pm

there's two 2" pvc pipes, possible vents? on the drivers side just at tank top level.

Those are vents/cooling for the coach battery area. Fresh air in through the floor vents and hot air out the 2 top vents when you are parked. When traveling down the road air pressure from moving forces reverse air circulation.

Pamela & Mike

Re: Looks like I have to replace the fuel lines!

Reply #24 – October 15, 2017, 10:52:09 pm

If the supplies were on one side they could pull air if the tank was low on a angled grade. If you used a crows foot with a long extension the supply lines can be disconnected easily.

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