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Topic: Winterizing water lines without antifreeze (Read 597 times) previous topic - next topic

Winterizing water lines without antifreeze

That being said, I have a dw that doesn't want me to put any chemicals into the water system, food grade is not even an option. Isn't expected to freeze here till Friday with a low of mid 20's. Tanks have been emptied. A trip to the in-laws at Thanksgiving is in her brain, and will have to run coach heat at 50 till then. Garage/shop/barn with heat most likely won't happen for a few months. Any thoughts or sage advice welcome.
Old Phart Phred, EIEIO
89 GV ored 36' #3405 300 hp cat 3208 ATAAC side radiator, mountain tamer exhaust brake

Re: Winterizing water lines without antifreeze

Reply #1 –
We never winterize, and our poor old coach sits outside all the time.  We don't even bother to drain the fresh water tank or water lines.  We put 2 small thermostatic controlled electric heaters in the wet bay - one at each end.  Have them set to come on at about 40 degrees.  If the fresh water tank is kept full and relatively warm, it stores a lot of heat to help get the wet bay pipes through the cold nights.  Inside the coach are 2 or 3 more small electric heaters, set to keep the interior about 55 degrees.  The propane heaters are both turned on, and the mechanical thermostats are set at the lowest temp possible, which is around 50 degrees.  As long as the electricity stays on, the propane heaters don't ever run, but do remain on standby for "power failure" emergencies.

The above procedure has worked fine here (Midland, TX) for 4 years.  We do sometimes see temps below freezing for several days at a time, and down in the teens occasionally at night.  If you guys get a lot colder, for longer periods of time, our technique might not work.
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Winterizing water lines without antifreeze

Reply #2 –
Anti freeze in the sink and shower drains, drain water heater, drain water pump, low air pressure to blow out the hot and cold lines, then hope for the best. Don't forget the ice maker if equipped.
Bruce, Linda, and Macy
Zoey RIP 1/20/19
1999 U295 40' build #5400
2017 silver Jeep Wrangler, 1260 watts of solar on top
Moving around the country

Re: Winterizing water lines without antifreeze

Reply #3 –
All the above including hope for the best, run water pump and toilet for 5-10 seconds, follow directions in manual for Splendide winterizing.  I also set my thermostat at 40 for the few days it stays freezing past one night.
97 U295 40, Build #5040, 6C8.3 325 HP
Oregon Continuous Traveler
Samsung Residential #RF20HFENBSR,
Xantrex SW2012, (3)AGM8D Hse, (2)AGM Grp24 Eng, Victron BMV-712, 1800w Solar 4 LG & 2 Sunpower
Extreme Full Body Pt w/hdlmps, new furn/floor, 4 down Lexus 2004 GX470 AWD curb weight 4,740 lbs
Prev: 1990 Barth, 10L 300 2 yrs; 91&92 Monaco Signature, 10 yrs, 10L C 300 &  6C8.3 300; 1997 ForeT 6C8.3 325 since May 2017.  Employed by Guaranty RV 14+ yrs.  Former VW New Car Dlr/Service Dlr, Sales Mgr, Rv Sales, and Service Adviser from 1968-2017
"Don't criticize what you can't understand" Bob Dylan

Re: Winterizing water lines without antifreeze

Reply #4 –
What Bruce said. Then enough antifreeze down the toilet and down a sink to protect the tank valves.
Add a small electric space heater in the coach, a fan to circulate the air, and open all cupboard doors so warmer air can get into the cabinets.
Nitehawk,  Demolition Lady, & our NEW master, Zippy the speeding BB cat.
1989 Grand Villa 36' ORED
Oshkosh chassis, 8.2 DD V8
2006 Saturn Vue AWD

Re: Winterizing water lines without antifreeze

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Old phart phred –
That being said, I have a dw that doesn't want me to put any chemicals into the water system, food grade is not even an option. Isn't expected to freeze here till Friday with a low of mid 20's. Tanks have been emptied. A trip to the in-laws at Thanksgiving is in her brain, and will have to run coach heat at 50 till then. Garage/shop/barn with heat most likely won't happen for a few months. Any thoughts or sage advice welcome.

As it's short term till it gets a warm house. Running the heat in the coach and bays should work.

I gotta ask though.

Does your DW know that most if not all municipal water has noxious chemicals in it from the tap?  As in Chlorine, Chloramines or Chlorine Dioxide?




Jerry & Nona and Kimeru the cat that thinks she's a dog
1998 36' WTFE U320  #5314 Motorcade #17711
USAF 1975-1995
2019 Subaru Crosstrek 'toad'
2003 Subaru Legacy touring car
jerry Fincher | Flickr

Re: Winterizing water lines without antifreeze

Reply #6 –
Quote from: bigdog –
Does your DW know that most if not all municipal water has noxious chemicals in it from the tap?  As in Chlorine, Chloramines or Chlorine Dixoide

Our water supply also has very high concentrations of di-hydrogen monoxide and essential minerals, also but that will be our little secret. Ok.
World Health Organization warns against drinking ultra pure water as it depletes the body of essential minerals.
Can't fix stupid.
Old Phart Phred, EIEIO
89 GV ored 36' #3405 300 hp cat 3208 ATAAC side radiator, mountain tamer exhaust brake

Re: Winterizing water lines without antifreeze

Reply #7 –
 :)) Yep! Most water necessarily has a very high level of Dihydro monoxide (H2o) with trace minerals.

I only asked about your DW as it reminded me of a program that showed folks at an organic foods festival that were actually signing a fake petition for the banning of Dihydro monoxide as it can be dangerous. Which is of course true.

So I find it interesting (i'm strange that way) how people come to the conclusion that a thing is dangerous (like Propylene Glycol GRS RV anti-freeze)  In fact Propylene Glycol is used (in it's purer form) in the making of ice cream, Frozen custards, Salad dressings & many baked goods. Heck she probably ate some Propylene Glycol in the last 24 hours. ;D
Jerry & Nona and Kimeru the cat that thinks she's a dog
1998 36' WTFE U320  #5314 Motorcade #17711
USAF 1975-1995
2019 Subaru Crosstrek 'toad'
2003 Subaru Legacy touring car
jerry Fincher | Flickr

Re: Winterizing water lines without antifreeze

Reply #8 –
Have you ever taken Miralax - the stool softener for irregularity? Surprise, it is......  propylene glycol. Works great.
Sometimes my coach runs a little irregular so I thought I would put some in the fuel tank. Might be rather difficult to tell if it does any good though - the bottle says it  takes 1 - 3 days. I probably should have some extra fuel filters on hand, huh.
Ah yes, a little humor is the best medicine.
Jim

2002 U320
Jim Frerichs
2002 U320 42'

Re: Winterizing water lines without antifreeze

Reply #9 –
Quote from: bigdog –
:)) Yep! Most water necessarily has a very high level of Dihydro monoxide (H2o) with trace minerals.

I only asked about your DW as it reminded me of a program that showed folks at an organic foods festival that were actually signing a fake petition for the banning of Dihydro monoxide as it can be dangerous. Which is of course true.

So I find it interesting (i'm strange that way) how people come to the conclusion that a thing is dangerous (like Propylene Glycol GRS RV anti-freeze)  In fact Propylene Glycol is used (in it's purer form) in the making of ice cream, Frozen custards, Salad dressings & many baked goods. Heck she probably ate some Propylene Glycol in the last 24 hours. ;D
Can't fix stupid, so to disagree with THEM is pointless, as THEY tend to be stubborn also. But back to the point, the ice maker, pump, accumulator and all water piping below cabinets are vulnerable. PEX piping itself can tolerate freezing, except for the fittings. Blow piping out with air seems to be best option. Any residual water should have enough room to expand, kinda like a glass dog water bowl in the winter, water freezes, expands and pops up in the bowl. Pump and accumulator are next to furnace and ductwork. Filter can be removed.
I guess that just leaves the ice maker.
Old Phart Phred, EIEIO
89 GV ored 36' #3405 300 hp cat 3208 ATAAC side radiator, mountain tamer exhaust brake

Re: Winterizing water lines without antifreeze

Reply #10 –
When we depart each winter for mexico I blow out all the house lines( along with irrigation lines of course) and I have done it to the coach before we leave and after we get back. NEVER had an issue. I only put RV antifreeze in the toilet and drains.
JohnH
Coachless, now use aircraft. 2003 Ford Travelair TC280 class C. Super shape. Just for 1 yr .
1994 Ford E350 ClassC,total renovation inside and out. Now sold.
2000 U295  36' Cummins 350 c/w Banks Stinger, Resonator upgrade,Solar, LED lites.Residential fridge with slide out pantry. Build 5674. Sold
ex 92 GV 022C ored Cummins. Sold
ex 95 GV240 cat 3116. Sold
2017 Mini cooper s & 2016 land Rover LR2 HSE  LUX.
jhaygarth@aol.com    SKP #130098
treat everyone as you would like to be.

Re: Winterizing water lines without antifreeze

Reply #11 –
Yep, beware of di-hydro-monoxide in your water tank.. That's right in there with electronic techs putting the resistors in backwards.
Jim

2002 U320
Jim Frerichs
2002 U320 42'

Re: Winterizing water lines without antifreeze

Reply #12 –
Phred,

I blow out all of the water from every where with low pressure air (maybe 30 psi).  It gets to be way below zero here so I fill all of the water lines, faucets, valves, pump, accumulator and drains with -50° RV antifreeze.  None of it goes into the fresh water tank. Some will go into the waste tanks.

Each can assume whatever risk they want to take.  An hour of my time and $20 for RV antifreeze is much cheaper than a broken waterline, a cracked water pump, a freeze damaged faucet or shower cartridge or burst water line in the water heater.  I have done this in MN where it gets cold for 43 years on every RV we have owned.

When it gets warm or we get to where it is warm in the winter, flushing the lines takes less than an hour.

Do what makes sense for you and your family.  I am more comfortable knowing my water system is protected than worrying about it.
Roger Engdahl and Susan Green
2001 U320 3610 #5879 (Home2) - 2014 Jeep Cherokee or 2018 F150
Hastings, MN

Re: Winterizing water lines without antifreeze

Reply #13 –
Roger,

I have an Aqua Hot and have been told that air will not remove all the water from the 120+'feet of coiled lines inside. Even leaving the electric side turned on in the winter may not be sufficient - think power loss or really cold temps.

Freezing of the Aqua Hot fresh water lines is not a risk I would be willing to take. It could be a $10,000 mistake.
Jim

2002 U320
Jim Frerichs
2002 U320 42'

Re: Winterizing water lines without antifreeze

Reply #14 –
If you have electricity, buy several 200 watt Lasco Personal Heaters (about $20 each).    Buy large size Reflectix at Lowe's / Home Depot and put them behind bay doors to keep heat from heater contained.  Keep inside temps up with furnace or heaters.  Works for us in all temps including very cold.  We did not put any chemicals or drain anything.

Re: Winterizing water lines without antifreeze

Reply #15 –
Quote from: Jim Frerichs –
Freezing of the Aqua Hot fresh water lines is not a risk I would be willing to take. It could be a $10,000 mistake.

X2....Our friend with his Blue bird (bought in Michigan) had the whole system leak. Never learned how the tank welds split, but the tank had to be re welded, as well. He was a honest guy, told me $10,000.00 large.
1993 U-240 "La Villa Grande"..CAT 3116 w/ Pacbrake PRXB...Allison 3060 6-speed..
Previous: 1983 Airstream 310 turbo diesel, 1979 Airstream 280 turbo diesel
                                      Build # 4297
                                      PNW natives
                      Home base:  'Cactus Hug' (Ajo, Arizona)
                        DW Judy & Chet the wonder dog
                        Full-Timers 'Sailing the asphalt sea'

Re: Winterizing water lines without antifreeze

Reply #16 –
Jim,  I think you get all of the water out, maybe a drip or two left.  I turn on the air and open each faucet, shower, hot and cold then the toilet then each of the tank and hot and cold drain lines (2 each) until nothing but air.  Then I do it again. 

Then I fill it with RV antifreeze.  Never any thoughts about not doing it. Better safe then sorry.
Roger Engdahl and Susan Green
2001 U320 3610 #5879 (Home2) - 2014 Jeep Cherokee or 2018 F150
Hastings, MN