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Topic: Newb seeking enlightenment (Read 1398 times) previous topic - next topic

Newb seeking enlightenment

Hello All,
This is my first post. I stumbled on this site in researching motorhomes, which we plan to purchase in the next 3-5 years.  I have been a member of the forum since June and have learned so much from you all.  I believe the best salesmen of any coach brand are those that own them.  I also believe the wife and I are sold on Foretravel.  The amazing thing to me is that unlike SOB forums, I have yet to read "poorly designed" or " cheap junk", or "Lemon Law" discussions, when it comes to this brand of coach.
 With that being said, I have questions about a couple of coaches that I have looked at both online and in person.

There are 2 coaches advertised online that list Ether Injection as installed on the coach.  Is this something to be concerned about?  My research shows past discussions on how use of ether can weaken or damage piston rings and other engine components. I couldn't find anything about this being a factory option. Anything to be concerned with?

The first and only coach I looked at in person so far, a 1999 U320, had the aqua hot partially(mostly) removed. In its place is an electric water heater held in place with a nylon strap. I can't figure out what would cause someone to do this.  See photo. Would this negatively effect the value of the coach?  This coach lists aqua hot as installed equipment.

Look forward to your thoughts.

John

John  and Cathy VanKampen
1999 U270 36ft build 5426

Re: Newb seeking enlightenment

Reply #1 –
Quote from: Navybean –
The first and only coach I looked at in person so far, a 1999 U320, had the aqua hot partially(mostly) removed. In its place is an electric water heater held in place with a nylon strap. I can't figure out what would cause someone to do this.  See photo. Would this negatively effect the value of the coach? 

It would most definitely decrease the coach value - originally the AquaHot would have provided both domestic hot water AND the primary coach heat (roof A/Cs with heat strips or heat pump would be secondary).  It also runs on both diesel and electric.  With just an electric water heater, the coach is significantly limited (there are no propane furnaces in an AquaHot-equipped coach).

 @Rudy can say for sure, but I recall replacement AquaHot units running upwards of $10K.  Can only guess as to why it was removed, unless the original wasn't properly winterized and developed a catastrophic leak and the owner took the cheap way out.
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: Newb seeking enlightenment

Reply #2 –
Ether injection was OEM on many coaches. Lots of posts on forum re the topic.
Missing Awuahot likely due to previous freeze damage. I would approach coach very cautiously, probably neglected in other way Yes, coach needs aquahot for hot water, heat coach and bays.
$15k plus to replace
Tim Fiedler    2025 LTV Unity MBL on Order
2000 Chevy Tracker 2 Door Convertible 4WD Now lifted 4.5"
1985 Citroen 2CV6 Charleston
Murphy Rebel on wheels with 175HP Titan
Cessna P337
1980 48' Westport MY (!/4 Share)

Re: Newb seeking enlightenment

Reply #3 –
A heater that has been frozen and burst the fresh water coil or had a weld failure causing a tank leak is real expensive to repair unless you have very good mechanical skills and do the work yourself.  So a little over a $100 for the 110 vac heater vs thousands makes sense to some folks.  Brand new heater retails for $10,194 plus labor, reman heater is just over $8,000 and a John Carrillo repaired heater is still several thousand.

Hot water heating works but interior and basement heating does not work with this set up.

Now having said that, if you budget around $12,000 in your purchase price, I, and I am sure others, know how to fit a new heater back into that coach.  Call me Please.
Rudy Legett
2003 U320 4010 ISM 450 hp
2001 U320 4220 ISM 450 hp
1995 U320 M11 400 hp
1990 Granvilla 300 hp 3208T
Aqua Hot Service Houston and Southeast Texas

Re: Newb seeking enlightenment

Reply #4 –
John,

Welcome to the "active" group on the Forum.  Like you, I lurked for quite a while before I got up the nerve to ask my first question.  I got such a great and friendly response that they haven't been able to shut me up since then!  All your questions are welcomed here.

About the ether - as Tim said it was factory equipment on many Foretravel models.  If you do run across a coach with the ether option, there is a good chance it will be long neglected and probably inoperative.  That was my experience with the coach we purchased.  Later, after I educated myself about the pros and cons of ether injection, I decided to completely remove the equipment.  I had no interest in using ether, or operating in conditions that might necessitate its use.  In the 4+ years we have owned our coach, I have never had any problem starting our engine, even in what I would call very cold conditions (like in the single digits).

Good luck with your search!
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Newb seeking enlightenment

Reply #5 –
Welcome, John. Yes, doing research is a good thing. Asking lots of questions is a good thing. We saw exactly one Foretravel before we decided to get one, but that one was enough to tell us that they were really a high quality coach.

There are several threads on ether, and most people have decided to remove the equipment. I believe that all Foretravels have block heaters, so when it gets cold outside you can turn the block heater on overnight and the coach will start easily in the morning.

Re: Newb seeking enlightenment

Reply #6 –
  John,  welcome !
Had to deal with ether when Cat. went away from glow plugs in the early 80's, what a joke, it works great untill it gets cold !! lol.
In a quarry in Wyo. we had new 988 loaders and 245 face shovels with the ether systems, I had to go around and jump start them as they would run the batts. down trying to start. Jump starts were with an old Cat D9K with glow plugs, that little beauty would start at -28 degs.
  Mick
88 Grand Villa 36' ORED 3208 (throwaway)Cat.
 Build # 3150
Happiness is the maximum agreement of reality and desire.

Re: Newb seeking enlightenment

Reply #7 –
My understanding is that the glow plugs are normally in a pre combustion chamber.  Some thing about that not passing the later smog laws. Or not working as well as a heated plenum on mid sized diesel.  No heated plenum or glow plugs on a m11.

Foretravel and Oshkosh both installed ether start systems for a reason. 

If starting system is cold, worn, run down and the aqua hot is not working the ether start is the last backup.

Does not work above 50 degrees and has a metered shot per button push.

Less than fully charged batteries can freeze and cold batteries can lose 50%? power.

Flooded cell batteries can use and need battery warmers.  Bluebirds came with them.

Part of a aquahot hots coaches value is the winter ability.

We are thinking of a winter grrand canyon snow trip.  Fantastic pictures...
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Newb seeking enlightenment

Reply #8 –
Welcome to the FoFum -

Enjoy your journey.  It's fun - most times.  :D

Call Rudy - Re:  Aquahot

We have never used ether either.
Scott & Carol Seibert
2001 42' double slide U320 - Sold
Previous - 2002 36' U320

Re: Newb seeking enlightenment

Reply #9 –
Welcome John!  Feel free to ask questions.  A lot of people on here have owned other brands before ending up in a Foretravel (I'm slower than you and it took me longer to find them).  Then they have had a couple Foretravels :-)
Kurt & Shanna
2007 42' Phenix
Peoria Arizona

Re: Newb seeking enlightenment

Reply #10 –
Welcome!  This is the BEST place for information ... Foretravel specific AND lots of general stuff, too! I learned more that I can begin to tell when I first started reading this site ... way back when it was a Yahoo forum! Stuff floated to the top of my brain when I really needed it, like how to manually downshift your rig when you are about to descend after climbing a steep grade (we were on I-40 traveling east from Knoxville to Asheville, bringing our first rig home after buying it. Long story ... I just "happened" to be driving!).  How to get in a window after you have been mysteriously locked out ... WHERE is the check valve on your water intake? ... tires, electrical, what does this switch do?, how do you open the safe?, what to know before the Emergency Road Service guy arrives, insurance, fire prevention, taking stuff apart, putting it together again, ... I could go on. There is NO question that is considered stoopid. It will be answered with respectful information and a genuine effort to help. I can guarantee that ALL of us have made the most entertaining and ridiculous and costly moves that you can imagine.

That is why we don't refer to actual money, anymore ... we find it less painful to use the term "Coachbucks".  Welcome to the Forum!  Oh ... and that rig with the Aquahot removed? ... I would give that one a pass.  There are LOTS of better coaches around. Don't be afraid to travel to check them out. It is a thoughtful search and a real learning curve. Take your time.
Carol & Jeff Savournin
Usta have a '93 U225 36', Usta have a '95 U320 40', Usta have a '02 U320 40'
Usta have a 2006 Born Free, Usta have a 2011 Phoenix Cruiser
Usta have a 2012 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited 4dr
"Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life."  Steve Jobs

Re: Newb seeking enlightenment

Reply #11 –
Thanks for the warm welcome and insight.  I definitely think I need to get eyes on more coaches to work on my frame of reference with these machines.  While looking at the coach with the aqua hot we met Roger Sellers who took the time to show us several Foretravel coaches there for service, including his own.  He was very accommodating and informative in explaining some of the systems and build quality.  If anything, he is a salesman.  The best part of this encounter was the increased buy in from my DW.  Thanks again.
John
John  and Cathy VanKampen
1999 U270 36ft build 5426

Re: Newb seeking enlightenment

Reply #12 –
John, describing Roger Sellers as a salesman is the masterpiece of understatement. Like describing God as good. He is a very nice guy, too.
No RV! Have hung up the keys.
In the past: 2016 Winnebago Era, 1994 Foretravel U240, 1995 Foretravel U240 (wide body), 1999 Foretravel 320, 36 Foot, 2003 Foretravel U320 38 foot,

Re: Newb seeking enlightenment

Reply #13 –
John,  Welcome to the Forum. I too stalked for a while (6 months) before I asked questions, then jumped in and got Falcor, my '93 U280. It's a never ending story, so I'm told. The aquahot was something that I didn't want due to additional systems usually equal additional points of failure. I'm perfectly happy with my propane powered heaters.

My advice is to build your perfect coach in your mind (years, model, layout, additional equipment) then search for it. You will find others, and by looking, you will either confirm your original choice or find it isn't a "gotta have". It took me 5 months to find one with the layout, options, and model I was looking for, and it appeared only 100 miles away from me at the time!. If you're looking for aquahot, you have many more options.

I full-time and have put 18K miles on since May 2016, when I got my coach. I travel between kids and grand kids in Washington state, South Dakota, and San Diego. These coaches are a dream!. SOLID construction and almost bullet proof drive train. Hope you find YOUR Foretravel soon and to meet you on the road. Always glad to see another Navy man on the forum too!
AKA Chuck
1993 U280 40' WTB, Build 4345, CUM 8.3 "Falcor", 2010 Honda CRV TOAD (Spock), 970W solar on roof
Full-Time traveler between Quartzsite AZ, Longview WA, Ellendale ND, and Lake City SD
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Re: Newb seeking enlightenment

Reply #14 –
Quote from: Navybean –
Thanks for the warm welcome and insight.  I definitely think I need to get eyes on more coaches to work on my frame of reference with these machines.  While looking at the coach with the aqua hot we met Roger Sellers who took the time to show us several Foretravel coaches there for service, including his own.  He was very accommodating and informative in explaining some of the systems and build quality.  If anything, he is a salesman.  The best part of this encounter was the increased buy in from my DW.  Thanks again.
John

John, if you got back to TN RV be sure to go to the service department and introduce yourself to James Holder. James is the service manager and has amazing knowledge about FT. He is a great guy and is always willing to stop what he is doing to talk about these classic coaches. I take my coach to James when it needs something beyond my abilities. It use to be a FT dealership.
1993 U300 40ft GV SE
Build # 4344

Re: Newb seeking enlightenment

Reply #15 –
There are alternatives to an AH. Regardless of the reason the  AH failed, check out the comments on cost or replacement and/or repair. We pulled ours when it when belly up the second time. Using on-demand water heater and we drive south to keep the coach warm in the winter. When the AH worked it was great. Not worth the cost to us.

Additionally, I have an on-demand water heater available. It's a factory rebuild and works well. I'd take $500 or best offer.
Larry
1996 U295 36'
Build # 4805
Actually we sold it but just like to lurk

Re: Newb seeking enlightenment

Reply #16 –
Ether is a cold starting aid (like when its too cold the engine won't start on its own) and not a "regular" use item.  I'd bet 90% of the coaches that have that equipment have never had it used-ever.  As has been said above, plugging in the engine block heater is the preferred method of cold weather aid starting.

Worrying about ether use is kinda like worrying if you eat a king sized Snickers bar two times per year that you are going to shorten your life span any.......

Dan 1989 U280 40'

Re: Newb seeking enlightenment

Reply #17 –
Actually, let's back up a minute.

Many, many modern diesels use an INTAKE MANIFOLD HEATER to aid in cold weather starting.  If your engine is so equipped, do NOT use Ether.  Ether  plus red hot wire= explosion hazard.

So, verify that your engine does not have an intake manifold heater before even considering using ether.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020