Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Topic: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help (Read 1561 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #25 – October 28, 2017, 12:55:22 pm

Quote from: John Morales – October 28, 2017, 12:47:08 pm

Michelle,
Thanks for splitting my post.

Just wondering, in the future can I split-off my own post if this happens again, or do I need to contact you or another moderator?

John - only a moderator or facilitator can split topics. You can either contact one of us directly or use the "Report to Moderator" button on one of the wandering posts to ask for a split.

Michelle

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #26 – October 28, 2017, 12:58:16 pm

Quote from: John Morales – October 28, 2017, 12:47:08 pm

Michelle,
Thanks for splitting my post. I had given up on trying to get information on resolving my inverter issues. Looking for help with my inverter turned in to an invasion of the inverter gurus sharing their vast knowledge and experiences. I didnt want to be rude and interfere with their posts because it was still valuable information for those looking to upgrade their inverter and upgrade to solar. I thank Roger Engdahl for stepping in. He tried to salvage my post and bring it back to the original questions, but the momentum was too great. Just wondering, in the future can I split-off my own post if this happens again, or do I need to contact you or another moderator?
Thanks,
John M.

I am one of the offenders, but after all that talk, maybe you could tell us your present situation, It seems you tried it several times and finally the inverter restarted? Did your batteries charge up when running generator? [This would indicate charger section is working] I think we have established your batteries went dead because of inverter and icemaker loads. What is your present situation?

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #27 – October 28, 2017, 03:31:16 pm

Jim,
First thanks for getting back to me.

This morning with the inverter off over the night my volts on the Javalina Monitor was at 12.6v from 13.4v before going to bed. I tried starting the inverter, it would go through sense mode scanning for a load and nothing. Inverter light stays on flashing which means no load. This morning I ran for 4 hours, the Javalina stated 14.1v . After shutting generator Javalina said 13.4v. When I shut the generator off after 4 hours the inverter should have come on and it didn't. In the past after trying the gen off and on the inverter would come. I have 2 ATS. One is for the inverter correct? If the ATS was not closing properly leaving the contacts open will the Inverter not sense a load? I want to look at the ATS but I don't know which one is for the inverter. Are they labeled?

Also after 4 hours the charge light never went off on the inverter meaning it was still charging. How long does it take to charge 3 8D gell cell batteries on the generator. Also if one of my batteries is bad it may never get up to the charge capacity. I need to get out there and test the batteries. I have the Harbor Freight 100A load tester but I was going to see about purchasing the Digital Analyzer to test the condition of the batteries.

Still trying to pin point the exact problem. I am still able to function, just a little struggle.

John M

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #28 – October 28, 2017, 03:46:17 pm

Quote from: John Morales – October 28, 2017, 03:31:16 pm

Jim,
First thanks for getting back to me.

This morning with the inverter off over the night my volts on the Javalina Monitor was at 12.6v from 13.4v before going to bed. I tried starting the inverter, it would go through sense mode scanning for a load and nothing. Inverter light stays on flashing which means no load. This morning I ran for 4 hours, the Javalina stated 14.1v . After shutting generator Javalina said 13.4v. When I shut the generator off after 4 hours the inverter should have come on and it didn't. In the past after trying the gen off and on the inverter would come. I have 2 ATS. One is for the inverter correct? If the ATS was not closing properly leaving the contacts open will the Inverter not sense a load? I want to look at the ATS but I don't know which one is for the inverter. Are they labeled?

Also after 4 hours the charge light never went off on the inverter meaning it was still charging. How long does it take to charge 3 8D gell cell batteries on the generator. Also if one of my batteries is bad it may never get up to the charge capacity. I need to get out there and test the batteries. I have the Harbor Freight 100A load tester but I was going to see about purchasing the Digital Analyzer to test the condition of the batteries.

Still trying to pin point the exact problem. I am still able to function, just a little struggle.

John M

Voltage does not indicate a bad battery, but it is possible. On my prosine remote, charge light is on all the time, if charger is turned on. To check inverter ats, look at both ats's. Each will have 3 sets of big wires going into them. on the inverter ats, one set of the big wires will go to the inverter sub panel. Take cover off and inspect for arcing etc. [careful live all the time] now shut off sp/generator.
Contactor should shift sp/gen to inverter side with a clunk. Just checked mine, if inverter off on remote panel, it will not come on with loss of shorepower, you must turn it on.
I would not even mess with sense settings till you get regular operation figured out.

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #29 – October 28, 2017, 04:03:55 pm

Jim,
No SP/GenP. Inverter still does not come on when I manually start. Goes through cycle and still no load. Also, not knowing how the sense load is set up, I have the microwave and ice maker disconnected. Don't know if that makes a difference. In my coach the bottom ATS goes to the sub panel. I opened it up and noticed 2 sets of contacts. I've been trying to get it to start all morning and nothing.
John M.

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #30 – October 28, 2017, 04:06:50 pm

Have you tried plugging in a 120 volt light into an outlet so the inverter can sense a load? That would tell you if it is working and you would not have to worry about damage to the microwave.

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #31 – October 28, 2017, 04:14:42 pm

Quote from: John Morales – October 28, 2017, 04:03:55 pm

Jim,
No SP/GenP. Inverter still does not come on when I manually start. Goes through cycle and still no load. Also, not knowing how the sense load is set up, I have the microwave and ice maker disconnected. In my coach the bottom ATS goes to the sub panel. I've been trying to get it to start all morning and nothing.
John M.

John, are you saying that inverter ats does not shift when you secure shorepower? Do you have any fault codes on your control panel? Your manual page 88 shows you how to read fault codes.

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #32 – October 28, 2017, 04:36:06 pm

Jim,
No fault codes. I removed the cover from the ATS. I had the wife turn on the generator. The contacts on the left in the bottom. ATS energized nothing on the right side . Is that right contact the one for the inverters? It did nothing when the generator started.

Red Tractor,
I plugged in my blender and induction burner and still no sense on the inverter with SP/GenP off.

John M.

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #33 – October 28, 2017, 05:03:34 pm

You might try doing a soft reset....shut off the Prosine with the very small on/off switch on the side of the unit. Wait 10 minutes before turning it back on.
If that does not help, then try a hard reset...disconnect the 120 AC power and also remove both the 12 volt connections for 10 minutes.
Jim

2002 U320

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #34 – October 28, 2017, 05:04:19 pm

Quote from: John Morales – October 28, 2017, 04:36:06 pm

Jim,
No fault codes. I removed the cover from the ATS. I had the wife turn on the generator. The contacts on the left in the bottom. ATS energized nothing on the right side . Is that right contact the one for the inverters? It did nothing when the generator started.

Red Tractor,
I plugged in my blender and induction burner and still no sense on the inverter with SP/GenP off.

John M.

John, my coach has different setup, but think my 99 had 2 sets of contactors, one should be open and one closed for shorepower/gen, the other way around for inverter or could be one contactor with two sets of contacts. If two contactors you should see one open and one closed at any time.
On inverter, appears only way to go to load sensing mode is through dipswitches, If you haven't messed with them you are still probably in regular mode. Had a heart-interface one time that would hang up, and only way to reset was to remove one 12 volt lead on inverter, this will give you a hard reset. I would secure sp, turn inverter section off and disconnect one lead to inverter for 30 seconds. You will get a small spark when you reconnect as caps fill but thats all.

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #35 – October 28, 2017, 05:28:15 pm

Both Jim's,

On the ATS contact switch on the left energized, right nothing with generator powered up. Power off on generator contact switch on left de-energized, right nothing. I will try and reset the inverter and se what goes.
John M.

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #36 – October 28, 2017, 05:46:40 pm

Quote from: John Morales – October 28, 2017, 05:28:15 pm

Both Jim's,

On the ATS contact switch on the left energized, right nothing with generator powered up. Power off on generator contact switch on left de-energized, right nothing. I will try and reset the inverter and se what goes.
John M.

Sounds like bad coil or connection on that contactor. If it is not pulling in, even if inverter working, you will not get power to inverter panel. If you are getting a no load indicator on prosine control panel, it because this contactor is open. In an emergency you can jam a screwdriver in that contactor but make sure your generator is disabled and no shore power possible.
What some people have done is move wires going to inverter breaker panel directly to wires coming in from inverter [assuming inverter works] and just dead ending wires coming from gen/sp. This will run your inverter panel on inverter and batteries only, but will be okay because battery charger section will be charging batteries. Other people just remove contactor and install manual switch to allow either sp/gen or inverter.

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #37 – October 28, 2017, 06:07:06 pm

I removed both ATS boxes from our coach. The shore power/generator ATS was replaced by a Blue Sea manual switch. The inverter ATS function was taken over by our Magnum MS2812. The Magnum switches back and forth instantly and seamlessly between shore/gen AC and inverter function as required. Our inverter and battery charger are on 24/7. Couldn't be any simpler or easier.

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #38 – October 28, 2017, 06:08:25 pm

John, do you have two ATSs? One will be above the other one at the foot of the bed if it is similar to mine. The upper one is landline or generator. The lower one is inverter or landline/generator.

If the inverter is actually inverting then if you have a 120 volt non-contact voltage detector you should be able to sense 120v on the output wires from the inverter. These beep beep beep when close to wires that have 120v.

Sperry Instruments VD6505 Adjustable Non-Contact Voltage Sensor, 12-1000V...

You can get these at most hardware stores.

Start with the easy stuff.

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #39 – October 29, 2017, 08:10:25 am

Quote from: John Morales – October 28, 2017, 05:28:15 pm

On the ATS contact switch on the left energized, right nothing with generator powered up. Power off on generator contact switch on left de-energized, right nothing.

John,

It sure sounds to me like half of your ATS box is not functioning. If you do decide that is the problem, it should be possible to replace the non-functioning component, rather than the whole box. I don't know which way would be easier...depends on how much working room you have. Link below to a example of replacing the component. It may not be the same ATS as you have, but the basic mechanical steps should be similar.

Replacing a Transfer Relay

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #40 – October 29, 2017, 11:42:48 am

We'll,
Yesterday I tried to get the inverter started with no luck. Towards the end of the day turned off salesman switch and removed the DC power cables to the inverter. I waited about ten minutes and reconnected. Turn salesman switch on and tried to start the inverter and nothing. Tried running the generator a while and turned off to see if switches nothing. By the time Roger posted it was getting dark so I set the project aside till today. I took Rogers advice at went Lowe's to get the circuit tester.

This morning the batteries were at 12.9v, I started the generator ran it for about 1.5 hours till it was time to go to church. I turned off the generator and the crazy inverter kicked in and the ATS energized. That ATS hums while energized, don't know why. Stumped, the only thing I can think of is that when I initially had the problem where the batteries were getting low, I took Tom's advice and shut the inverter down. Also, I shut down the ULINE and microwave so that the tv would be the only device on the inverter running. That being said, after reading the manual and learning about load sense I feel the my inverter may be set at a high load sense to accommodate the three appliances. With me pulling the microwave and ULINE I created a much smaller load. Last night before bed I ran the generator turned on the tv, microwave, and the induction burner had diner and watched some tv. When I was done I turned the generator. So this morning when I woke up these items were still online. So maybe when I turned off the generator tho Morning their was enough load to kick in the inverter.

Don't know if this analysis is correct, just my observation. I'm still unsure but will keep trying.
Thanks for your help,
John M.

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #41 – October 29, 2017, 11:59:01 am

Quote from: John Morales – October 29, 2017, 11:42:48 am

That ATS hums while energized, don't know why.

Your analysis sounds like you are on the right track. I don't know a lot about the different inverters, but your reasoning sounds logical. It would be interesting if you could determine what exactly is programmed into your inverter load sense parameter. It could help confirm your diagnosis.

The ATS "hum" is not necessarily a problem. It is just the nature of some types of ATS. There are ATS units that supposedly do not make the humming noise. Search "ATS humming" on the Forum for pertinent threads, such as:

Humming sound while running on battery power.

30 amp transfer switch HUMMING!.

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #42 – October 29, 2017, 03:41:00 pm

Well, I've been driving through Tennessee on our way to Pigeon Forge to meet up with Traveling Man. and for the last couple of hours I've been thinking about this whole inverter issue and how it works. The wife is driving now so I can take time to put down my thoughts together. Sorry, but when I have a problem my brains just won't stop working till the issue is resolved. Sometimes I have to walk away and just think, but I never give up. I will do whatever it take to find a solution.

Feel free to set me straight on this issue. For the last two days I've been reading, thinking and analyzing this whole issue.

1. My inverter has the load sense set up most likely at a high level to accommodate the appliances I have on my sub-panel, microwave, tv and ULINE ice maker.
2. When the coach is on SP or GenP appliances are connected therefore creating a load. So when I get ready to disconnect from SP or GenP the the inverter quickly senses the load and makes the decision to switch to inverter power without interruption. Though sometimes I feel our ATS is somewhat slow in switching which could be an issue on our appliances.
3. Lastly, SP, GenP and inverter power off. If I try to start the inverter from this position it will never switch start creating AC no matter how much I try. It comes on, scans for existing loads and finds none and goes to standby mode. Which is why the inverter light flashes. At this stage I can plug in a million things and the inverter will never turn on. Why, because appliances have to be on to create a load that can be sensed.
4. If I disable the load sense function I really don't know how the inverter is going to function. My guess is that when I turn off SP or GenP the inverter will not start automatically because we told it not to sense a load so therefore now I have to start the inverter manually.

What I have found in the past is when I'm in inverter mode no SP or GenP I can turn the inverter on and off and it will work flawlessly. Why, I'm thinking that there is some residual load still stored in those devices allowing me to turn the inverter on and off like that. It also explains why when turning the inverter off at night before bed allows the the residual power to clear and in the morning I am not able to turn on the inverter because their is no load to sense.

I'm not sure about number 4 but that is what I've concluded. Now I can use the inverter gurus to help me on this this entire analogy and clear me on the entire thought process. And if when boon docking is it better to turn off the load sense. Whew! That was a brain fryer 😜 😎.

Thanks,
John M.

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #43 – October 29, 2017, 04:17:28 pm

If you think it is your load sense put dip switch 7&8 in the up position, this will disable it. Do not know about you, but I like to be able to turn my inverter on and off when I want to.

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #44 – October 29, 2017, 07:40:15 pm

I think that is the way I am going to go also. Just wasn't sure how this entire system worked. We will turn it off when we get to our campsite in Sevierville, TN.
Thanks,
John M.

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #45 – October 29, 2017, 08:12:09 pm

Don't forget, if you don't have the manual it's here in the Forum Media section

The selected media item is not currently available.

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #46 – October 29, 2017, 08:26:57 pm

Michelle,
Thanks! I have all of the manuals on board with me.
John M.

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #47 – October 29, 2017, 08:29:55 pm

If, the inverter is turned on, not the battery charger, but the inverter and the ATS's are working properly and the batteries are charged up, the inverter will come on. It will come on no matter where the load sense is on or off. If the load sense is turned on, the inverter will determine the ac load. If the load is below the load that is set with the load sense, the inverter will go into sleep mode. If the ac load is above the load set with the load sense, the inverter will power up and run the ac load. If yours is not working this way, then there is a problem with the inverter or the ATS switches. In other words, the inverter has to be turned on to work. It does not matter how the load sense function is set. The load sense does not work if the inverter is turned off. The inverter can be turned on and off with the load sense turned off just as it can turned on and off with the load sense turned on.
When some appliances such as a microwave or a tv are plugged in but not turned on, they are in standby mode. When the load sense is turned on, and the sense is set above the watts they are drawing, the inverter will not power on. Sometimes, it is necessary to turn on another appliance to activate the inverter and then the tv or microwave can be turned on. Other wise, the inverter will turn on, recognize that the watts are below the sense load setting, and then go into sleep mode.

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #48 – October 29, 2017, 10:05:46 pm

Quote from: John Morales – October 29, 2017, 03:41:00 pm

4. If I disable the load sense function I really don't know how the inverter is going to function. My guess is that when I turn off SP or GenP the inverter will not start automatically because we told it not to sense a load so therefore now I have to start the inverter manually.

If the inverter is turned on, and no shore power and the generator is off, and the sense mode is turned off, any ac load will power up the inverter and provide power to the ac load. There may be a threshold such as 5 or ten watts but that would be the only reason the inverter will not power up. When the load sense is turned off, the inverter operates like an inverter that does not have a sense mode function.

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