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Topic: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help (Read 1561 times) previous topic - next topic

Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

I have the Prosine 2.5.  Last night In the middle of the night I was awakened by the sound of a clicking transfer switch while dry docked.  Got up looked at my power panel flashing, turned on the monitor and the batteries were at 11.3 volts.  I returned to the panel and turned off the inverter.  Noise stops.  Turned on the generator and powered up the coach for 2 hours.  Panel looks normal no warnings.  Turned off generator and the inverter light flashes and no inverter AC.  Tried a few times with no luck.  This morning still the same issue.  After about 3 attempts of running the generator for about an hour and turning it off the inverter kicked on and I heard a loud click from under the bed. 
My questions:
1.  Why did it click in the middle of the night with 11.3 volts on the batteries?
2.  Why wouldn't it reset?
3.  Is the transfer switch going bad?
4. Does the inverter need more volts to run properly?
5. My manual states that a flashing inverter light means no load present.  Is the transfer switch stuck open?

My take on this is, the transfer switch is going bad.

Thanks,
John M.


[edited topic title to add inverter brand/model - Michelle]
John & Carm Morales

"We travel not to go anywhere, but to just go.  We travel for travel's sake.  Our great desire is to move."

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #1 –
John are your batteries good, are the connections clean and tight? I would check all connections from the batteries to the inverter before going any farther,
Bruce, Linda, and Macy
Zoey RIP 1/20/19
1999 U295 40' build #5400
2017 silver Jeep Wrangler, 1260 watts of solar on top
Moving around the country

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #2 –
For starters, a left-on-overnight big inverter, even without any loads on, draws a ton of current. Too much battery drain to leave on unless necessary.

After the battery is drained too much, the inverter drops offline or simply goes haywire. If the battery drops too far, the ProSine may need s hard reset to work at all. This includes charging from the generator. Fortunately for you, the charger still worked.

Is there a reason for keeping the inverter on overnight?  Maybe adding a small second inverter would help.
Tom Lang K6PG (originally  KC6UEC)
and Diane Lang
2003 38 U295 build 6209
2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Ecodiesel
still have tow-ready 2006 Acura MDX 
Temple City, California
Motorcade 16681 California Chapter President
SKP 16663 member of SKP Park of the Sierra, Coarsegold California
FMCA F071251
Retired electrical and electronic engineer

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #3 –
Tom,
The reason I leave the inverter on overnight is because this coach has an ice maker that is on the inverter circuit.  I wanted to remove the ice maker and get back the drawers that were removed or utilize the space.  The wife insist on keeping the ice maker we don't use.  We use it as freezer storage.  I may have to make a case for the removal. A case I'm not going to win.  We don't boon dock a lot, so I guess nothing goes into the ice maker while boon docking.  I can then turn the inverter off.  The main thing I use on the inverter is the tv, I am up late.  I have 2 small 300 amp inverters, I could use one dedicated to the tv and shut the main inverter off.  For now I shut will down the Uline ice maker and move everything to the RV freezer.  I will be shutting down the inverter at night also.
Thanks for the help.  It all makes sense.
John M.
John & Carm Morales

"We travel not to go anywhere, but to just go.  We travel for travel's sake.  Our great desire is to move."

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #4 –
Quote from: Tom Lang –
For starters, a left-on-overnight big inverter, even without any loads on, draws a ton of current. Too much battery drain to leave on unless necessary.

My understanding is that the Prosine 2.5 Inverter/Charger has a load sense mode that only draws less than 3 watts when turned on, in stand by and no load is on. That would be approximately 6 amps in 24 hours. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
.
Larry and Terry
Ex 2004 U270 36'

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #5 –
Quote from: ltg –
My understanding is that the Prosine 2.5 Inverter/Charger has a load sense mode that only draws less than 3 watts when turned on, in stand by and no load is on. That would be approximately 6 amps in 24 hours. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
.

My prosine 2.5 draws 55 watts at idle. Add in the ice maker compressor and it is easy to understand 11.3 voltage on batteries overnight. Even in s/b mode, inverter turns on and checks for load every 30 seconds,  I do not use it as it is hard on microwave, powering on and off every 30 seconds and same for ice maker.
Jim C.
coachfree, previous 1997, 1999, 2000, and 2003 Foretravels.

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #6 –
Hmmm. Per AM solar, closer to 60 watts parasitic draw, time to search the web for specifications.
Best in class for 3K inverter is 17 watts (victron) 30 for Magnum If it was 3 watts I would have kept the ProSine for sure
Tim Fiedler    2025 LTV Unity MBL on Order
2000 Chevy Tracker 2 Door Convertible 4WD Now lifted 4.5"
1985 Citroen 2CV6 Charleston
Murphy Rebel on wheels with 175HP Titan
Cessna P337
1980 48' Westport MY (!/4 Share)

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #7 –
Quote from: Tim Fiedler –
Hmmm. Per AM solar, closer to 60 watts parasitic draw, time to search the web for specifications.
Best in class for 3K inverter is 17 watts (victron) 30 for Magnum If it was 3 watts I would have kept the ProSine for sure
No load current draw, Inverter idle is 60 watts. No load current draw, in load sense mode is less than 3 watts. Please read the manual.
Larry and Terry
Ex 2004 U270 36'

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #8 –
Quote from: Tim Fiedler –
Hmmm. Per AM solar, closer to 60 watts parasitic draw, time to search the web for specifications.
Best in class for 3K inverter is 17 watts (victron) 30 for Magnum If it was 3 watts I would have kept the ProSine for sure
Agree, on idle, my state of charge with 4 8d"s will go from 100 to 94 overnight with only alarm, detectors, fridge dc  on.
My next investment will be the Victron inverter.
Jim C.
coachfree, previous 1997, 1999, 2000, and 2003 Foretravels.

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #9 –
"To reduce battery draw even further, you can turn on Load Sense mode. In Load
Sense mode, the PROsine periodically sends out a search pulse to see whether a
load is present. If it finds a load, it will turn on. You can adjust the interval
between search pulses, and you can also adjust the load power at which the
PROsine will turn on"
Above quote from manual. Below my actual operating observations.
On mine load sense search pulse is actually turning on unit to sense a load. If above a certain setpoint, turn on completely.
Have tried many settings, but parasitic loads from tv, appliances etc either trigger it on or you must set the complete power on point so high, a light load will not do anything. Having my microwave and sat and tv, turn on and off every 30 sec is not acceptable.
Have also had a Outback inverter with same "load sense" feature and it acted the same way.
Probably okay for an inverter with only one big load on it, that is either on or off, but does not appear to work well with all the small parasitic loads we have on our coaches.
Jim C.
coachfree, previous 1997, 1999, 2000, and 2003 Foretravels.

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #10 –
Larry. I have read the manual.

As others have stated, load sense not a fit for my usage pattern. Residential refrigerator and Sat receiver to name two items.

Do you use the load sense mode and if so what accomadations did you make to have it work for you?
Tim Fiedler    2025 LTV Unity MBL on Order
2000 Chevy Tracker 2 Door Convertible 4WD Now lifted 4.5"
1985 Citroen 2CV6 Charleston
Murphy Rebel on wheels with 175HP Titan
Cessna P337
1980 48' Westport MY (!/4 Share)

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #11 –
I believe load sense pulse will read any load on system, even very small ones, and then inverter turns on, to determine size of load, if big enough, inverter will stay on to power it, if not, will shut down. This is how the Outback guy explained it me when I asked him about the rapid on/off operation.
Jim C.
coachfree, previous 1997, 1999, 2000, and 2003 Foretravels.

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #12 –
Tim, one of the earlier posters made a statement that even with no loads on, a large inverter draws too much watts to leave on overnight. I was merely stating that if there are no ac loads, then the inverter can be put in load sense mode and left on.
I was not talking about your inverter or how you use your motorhome, I was talking about the original poster and his Prosine 2.5.
Larry and Terry
Ex 2004 U270 36'

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #13 –
Quote from: ltg –
Tim, one of the earlier posters made a statement that even with no loads on, a large inverter draws too much watts to leave on overnight. I was merely stating that if there are no ac loads, then the inverter can be put in load sense mode and left on.
I was not talking about your inverter or how you use your motorhome, I was talking about the original poster and his Prosine 2.5.

Larry, in a motorhome there is always a load somewhere, tv's, sat receivers, stereos, microwaves, etc. Even when these items are turned off, they draw a small current which the inverter sees as a ac load. Now if you actually unplugged all these items, you might possibly have no ac loads. But if you do not unplug them, the inverter will see these small loads in sense mode and react as I explained above.  My new LG  energy efficient tv draws 14 watts while turned off.
The OP probably has a tv and microwave so he could not use sense mode.
Jim C.
coachfree, previous 1997, 1999, 2000, and 2003 Foretravels.

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #14 –
I am wondering if anyone is using sense mode successfully in a FT, and how they make it work for them.
Tim Fiedler    2025 LTV Unity MBL on Order
2000 Chevy Tracker 2 Door Convertible 4WD Now lifted 4.5"
1985 Citroen 2CV6 Charleston
Murphy Rebel on wheels with 175HP Titan
Cessna P337
1980 48' Westport MY (!/4 Share)

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #15 –
On this coach they have the microwave, tv, and ice maker on the inverter.  I'm not fond of the microwave being on the inverter.  Just sitting idle puts a draw on the inverter.  Can I remove the the microwave from the inverter circuit or just leave it?  I've got the ice maker turned off for now. Still trying to convince the wife to get rid of it.  I can live without it. This is why we kept our absorption refrigerator instead of going residential when it went out.  We didn't want to rely on the inverter to keep it running.  Question, when I connect to power either pedestal or generator it activates the inverter.  If I set the load sense threshold to 0 will this stop it from coming on when the coach is powered up where I can start it manually when needed?  Lastly, does the inverter have to be on to Charge the batteries in generator mode or will the generator charge the batteries alone?  I'm new to all of this so I hope these are not stupid questions. 

Thank you to everyone for the help,

John M
John & Carm Morales

"We travel not to go anywhere, but to just go.  We travel for travel's sake.  Our great desire is to move."

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #16 –
John.
With shore or gen power, the invert section of your inverter is bypassed so you can leave that part on or off. It will not affect anything.
To charge batteries, charge button must be pushed. If not using ice maker or watching tv etc., just turn invert section off. All 12 v. equipment will still work and your inverter will not bring your batteries down. As stated above sense mode will not work for you.
Jim C.
coachfree, previous 1997, 1999, 2000, and 2003 Foretravels.

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #17 –
Quote from: jcus –
Larry, in a motorhome there is always a load somewhere, tv's, sat receivers, stereos, microwaves, etc. Even when these items are turned off, they draw a small current which the inverter sees as a ac load. Now if you actually unplugged all these items, you might possibly have no ac loads. But if you do not unplug them, the inverter will see these small loads in sense mode and react as I explained above.  My new LG  energy efficient tv draws 14 watts while turned off.
The OP probably has a tv and microwave so he could not use sense mode.
I have no idea what kind of tv or microwave John has, but I do not believe that they draw enough watts in standby to trigger the sense mode to turn on the inverter. The sense mode can be set as high as 140 watts. In your case, that would be fourteen TV's. 
Larry and Terry
Ex 2004 U270 36'

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #18 –
How would one run a residential refrigerator in load sense mode?
Tim Fiedler    2025 LTV Unity MBL on Order
2000 Chevy Tracker 2 Door Convertible 4WD Now lifted 4.5"
1985 Citroen 2CV6 Charleston
Murphy Rebel on wheels with 175HP Titan
Cessna P337
1980 48' Westport MY (!/4 Share)

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #19 –
Quote from: ltg –
I have no idea what kind of tv or microwave John has, but I do not believe that they draw enough watts in standby to trigger the sense mode to turn on the inverter. The sense mode can be set as high as 140 watts. In your case, that would be fourteen TV's. 
As I said before, the outback rep said that if the sense signal sees ANY load, it will turn on inverter for a second to see what load is, IF load is below set point say, 140 watts, it will turn back off immediately till the next sense signal. The problems lies in the fact that it does turn on for a second or two, and this will cycle any equipment like microwaves, tv's, sat receivers etc.
In other words, the sense signal is sent out periodically and if it senses ANY load like a tv in standby, it will turn inverter on for a second so inverter can see how big the load is and either remain on or shut down.
If you had absolutely no other loads on the inverter it would work the way you say, but unfortunately we have many small loads on it.
There is a reason why inverters do not come set up in sense mode from the factory or in any motorhome or boat I have ever seen.
Jim C.
coachfree, previous 1997, 1999, 2000, and 2003 Foretravels.

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #20 –
Quote from: jcus –
Larry, in a motorhome there is always a load somewhere, tv's, sat receivers, stereos, microwaves, etc. Even when these items are turned off, they draw a small current which the inverter sees as a ac load. Now if you actually unplugged all these items, you might possibly have no ac loads. But if you do not unplug them, the inverter will see these small loads in sense mode and react as I explained above.  My new LG  energy efficient tv draws 14 watts while turned off.
The OP probably has a tv and microwave so he could not use sense mode.
Jim, you are a lot more experienced than I am. I have no direct experience with the Prosine 2.5. If it is as you say, turns on and powers all ac loads to determine if they exceed the threshold before turning off, then it is only a viable setting if there are absolutely no ac loads. Sorry it took so long to get a handle on what you were saying.
Larry and Terry
Ex 2004 U270 36'

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #21 –
Quote from: ltg –
Jim, you are a lot more experienced than I am. I have no direct experience with the Prosine 2.5. If it is as you say, turns on and powers all ac loads to determine if they exceed the threshold before turning off, then it is only a viable setting if there are absolutely no ac loads. Sorry it took so long to get a handle on what you were saying.

Larry, I also thought it should work like you said, and could not see why it didn't. Luckily the Outback rep had a lot of time and patience and finally got me to understand.
Jim C.
coachfree, previous 1997, 1999, 2000, and 2003 Foretravels.

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #22 –
12 volt batteries are considered discharged at 12 volts or less. Deep cycle batteries recommend not to discharge more than 50% .  The inverter may require 12+ volts to operate before it alarms and cuts off. Check the specs.




Wantabe

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #23 –
Quote from: John Morales –
I have the Prosine 2.5.  Last night In the middle of the night I was awakened by the sound of a clicking transfer switch while dry docked.  Got up looked at my power panel flashing, turned on the monitor and the batteries were at 11.3 volts.  I returned to the panel and turned off the inverter.  Noise stops.  Turned on the generator and powered up the coach for 2 hours.  Panel looks normal no warnings.  Turned off generator and the inverter light flashes and no inverter AC.  Tried a few times with no luck.  This morning still the same issue.  After about 3 attempts of running the generator for about an hour and turning it off the inverter kicked on and I heard a loud click from under the bed. 


Thanks,
John M.
John, I have no idea what type or how many batteries you have, but if you have two or three of the 8D gell type batteries, when the batteries are at 11.3 volts, you will need to run the generator a lot longer than two hours to bring them back up. The first thing I would do is completely charge up the batteries and then see how the system is performing. 
Larry and Terry
Ex 2004 U270 36'

Re: Prosine 2.5 Inverter Help

Reply #24 –
Michelle,
Thanks for splitting my post.  I had given up on trying to get information on resolving my inverter issues.  Looking for help with my inverter turned in to an invasion of the inverter gurus sharing their vast knowledge and experiences. I didnt want to be rude and interfere with their posts because it was still valuable information for those looking to upgrade their inverter and upgrade to solar.  I thank Roger Engdahl for stepping in.  He tried to salvage my post and bring it back to the original questions, but the momentum was too great. Just wondering, in the future can I split-off my own post if this happens again, or do I need to contact you or another moderator?
Thanks,
John M.
John & Carm Morales

"We travel not to go anywhere, but to just go.  We travel for travel's sake.  Our great desire is to move."