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Water Fill Valve Issues

I live off my tanks and never use the full hook-ups until I need to drain the waste tanks and fill the fresh water tank.  This morning after draining and filling I noticed the sound of water moving after turning the fill valve off.  Turned off the water supply and it stopped.  Went to use my pump and it was cycling more than usual even with no one using the water.  I think the fill valve is stuck open and water is being cycled back into the fresh water tank.  I searched the forum for this issue and found a posting from JOR with the valve in question. I didn't send a picture of my valve because it is currently raining.  Just want to make sure this is the valve in question in the picture.  Is their any way of removing the valve without draining the fresh water tank?  Do we have any shut off valves on our coaches for this process.  Pump is shut down and we are headed to Savannah, GA from Charleston, SC.  When we get to our site we can assess the situation more closely.  Rain is not letting up, hopefully we will get a break in GA. 

Any help or ideas will be appreciated.  We are considering of getting rid of this valve and installing a manual diverter valve, a gravity fill or both.  When we arrive in Florida.  Right now I would like to remove the valve, take it apart and check it out. 
Thanks to all in advance,
John M.

Re: Water Fill Valve Issues

Reply #1 –
Mine stuck open once,  the cut wire you have that was reattached may be showing that someone earlier had the same problem.

If the valve solenoid is hot power is still flowing to it,  cut the wire,

Mine stuck from overheating as we mistakenly had the fill valve open without the water being on.

Left to cool after cutting the wire the valve  closed.

Power seemed off at the switches.  Still hot.  Cut wire.  Cooled of.  Valve closed,

My guru mechanic mentioned that the two relays in the bays were updated by Foretravel at some time.

They probably stuck.  Hence the fill valve being open. 

Never done it again.  Reattached the wire like yours has had happen at some time.

Re: Water Fill Valve Issues

Reply #2 –
Do you have a shut off or cap on end of your fill hose.? When mine stuck, pump sent water back out fill hose, short term fix was cap on hose. Took electric check  valve out and replaced with new at later date Crud had lodged in check valve causing it to flow without closing on command

Re: Water Fill Valve Issues

Reply #3 –
My coach doesnt have one of those so I cant answer your questions about closing of water to it. There is no need to remove the valve to work on it. They usually fail in one of two ways. 1) directly below the solenoid is an orifice that allows the valve to open. it may have some debris caught in the orifice or the plunger inside the solenoid may be corroded and stuck. 2) if you take off the 4 screws from the top of the assembly, there will be a rubber diaphragm. over time they can weaken and develop a hole in them.  These valves are pretty common so parts should be available. try a plumbing wareshouse or a sprinkler supply house.

Re: Water Fill Valve Issues

Reply #4 –
I arrived to my site.  The valve is still stuck open.  Going to assess the situation.  Going to try and bang on the valve to see if it will close. I have an end cap on my hose so hopefully no water will come out of my hose.
John M.

Re: Water Fill Valve Issues

Reply #5 –
I am a BIG fan of manual/ball valves.  You have to be out there anyway to connect up.  Remember: KISS!

Re: Water Fill Valve Issues

Reply #6 –
Brett,
I like to keep things simple as much as possible also. The least amount of things that can go wrong the better things will be.
John M.

Re: Water Fill Valve Issues

Reply #7 –
Electric tank fill valve is on the road  side of the coach on these coaches. At least on ours.

Easier access behind a removable panel.  In a heated area. Fill switch in bath and tank dump area.  Both run  a relay.

In a hot/cold use area or at night or in bad weather the ability to fill inside is helpful.

As the aquahot only adds 55 degrees to its inlet temp in winter use the need to fill the internal tank which is then heated by the aquahots basement circuit may allow hotter water than drawing directly from a freezing cold water inlet hose.

Not many here use their coach this way but there was a post hers  about a Montana full winter outside parking and live in.

It's not that you will use the coach this way but that you can.

Makes these a four season coach.  May be worth more to some for that reason.





Re: Water Fill Valve Issues

Reply #8 –
Bob,
That's how we do it.  We only use the fill when we need it.  The only thing hanging outside is the power cord.  Yes, we run our aqua hot on diesel and electric heat at the same time.  If the electric can't keep up, the diesel burner will kick in.  Everything is nice and warm.  I still need to get to the fill valve but this rain just won't stop.  Hopefully tomorrow.  I will try and take it apart and clean it.
John M.

Re: Water Fill Valve Issues

Reply #9 –
If the valve is physically hot to the touch with the switch lights off the relay is stuck on. Cut the wire. Mine was hot

Separately maybe  the valve is jammed open somehow. 

Re: Water Fill Valve Issues

Reply #10 –
Quote from: John Morales –
  I will try and take it apart and clean it.

John,

Make sure you take a small drill bit (1/16" works best) and clean out the pilot orifice. Use your hand only to turn the drill bit. They still make a rebuild kit for these valves but I doubt that you have a tore diaphragm.

Pamela & Mike

Re: Water Fill Valve Issues

Reply #11 –
Mike,
Where is the orfice located?
John M

Re: Water Fill Valve Issues

Reply #12 –
When you take the top cover off the valve and remove the diaphragm it will be the  stainless steel thing you will see inside with a hole in the center. I will post pics tomorrow as I thought that I had shown the inside of these valves before but I can't find them tonight.

Pamela & Mike

Re: Water Fill Valve Issues

Reply #13 –
Quote from: Pamela & Mike –
I will post pics tomorrow as I thought that I had shown the inside of these valves before but I can't find them tonight.


I can't find them, either, but there is a post or two about the rebuilt kits if you search the forum for water fill valve and user Pamela & Mike

Re: Water Fill Valve Issues

Reply #15 –
I agree with Brett, a ball valve or gate valve is easy to install and not expensive.

Re: Water Fill Valve Issues

Reply #16 –
Well the sun came out.  It's a beautiful day so I went to look at the the Water Fill Valve.  I was filled with many thankful surprises.

1.  First surprise, I learned that the water tank fills from the bottom up.  I
    always thought it poured in from the top down.
2.  Second surprise, I found a ball valve after the water fill valve and before
    the tank that I was able to
      shut off and remove the valve.
3.  Third surprise, after opening the valve I found some garbage on the edge
      of the diaphragm port keeping the port open.
4.  In the future if this happens again I can just close the valve and it will
      stop feeding back into the tank.

I am assuming the valve is OK and the issue was the garbage.  Since I have it open is there anything else I should be inspecting before closing it up?  Also,  I am assuming the solenoid is magnetic.  How can I test it?  Also, Mike is this the orfice you were talking about in the attached photo?

Thanks to all for your input and support,
John M

Re: Water Fill Valve Issues

Reply #17 –
John,
That is the orifice that you have shown. That blue piece is most likely from the back flow preventer so you may have more show up. I think you have found the problem.
I am working in another window on the cleaning process now, sorry that you it took me so long but it may help someone else out.
Now that you have taken it apart read over this and see if you understand

Mike

Re: Water Fill Valve Issues

Reply #18 –
John and others,

Here you go. I thought that I had posted this some time ago but it went through an email instead.  Now this is for the coaches that were made in the late 90s and have the electronic water fill valve. This valve wasn't used in the like 2000s so this info isn't much use to you or the people with manual valves like the early 90s.

FT used Parker Haniffin 12F24C2148A3F which are still in production.  If you add a " R " to the end of those numbers you will get the rebuild kit for it. Here is where I get my rebuild kits from http://www.patriot-supply.com/products/manufacturer_detail.cfm?manu_id=93&mq=12F24C2148A3F&search=Go    No this isn't my company so look around and find the best deal for you on the net. Now these are good quality stuff and that means they aren't cheep. If you want cheep then go and replace this with the quality you like.

Now to business: To remove ours  we have isolation valves but you most likely don't have these.  We installed isolation valves long ago to keep from having to drain the H2O tank for this job. These pics are of one that is a spare that I have. In these pics the coil is already off. Look under your coil there should be a foil ID tag with all the valve info, that will be the exact info for the valve you have.
I take a 1-1/16" wrench and remove the pilot valve assembly which contains the pilot piston and spring. There is an "O"ring that seals this assembly off so you need to get it out of the valve body also and check it out for cracks.

With a 1/2" wrench remove the 4 bolts and the top cover should come off. Now you will be able to see the diaphragm and the small diaphragm spring. Carefully remove the diaphragm because if you get rough you will be buying a rebuild kit. With the diaphragm removed you can see the Stainless Steel orifice In the valve body. There will be 2 O rings that you will need to remove. With that the disassemble is complete.

I put the brass valve body, brass top, and diaphragm spring into  a whip topping tub and cover with vinegar. This will remove the calcium buildup that you will see as white stuff inside the valve body. This cleaning step will take a while but patience will be rewarded with clean parts. I like to let it set overnight. After this soak you can rinse with plain water and do the final cleaning. You will have the SS orifice that will need to be cleaned out with a small drill bit.  I have found that there are different size orifices so start with a 1/16" drill bit to clean out the gunk that will be present. Do not use a drill motor for this step as you may damage the valve body. On the valve "Body Top" you will have 2 more orifices that will need to be checked for gunk. (look where the pencil is pointed) These 2 holes are part of the top assembly so they are brass and should be clean from the soak.  With them made in the brass you can damage them real easy so care needs to be taken here if any cleaning is necessary.

After you get all these parts clean then all you need to do is reverse the dissembly to put it back together. Take pics if you think you will forget how it came apart so you can have a reminder as to where these parts go.  I like to use Dow Corning 111 compound for lubing the diaphragm and O rings but you use what you like as long as it isn't petroleum jelly. Remember that there is an O ring seal on the pilot valve and it doesn't need to be tight as "Dick's Hat Band" to seal, just good and snug.

Here is some pics to help you along.



Re: Water Fill Valve Issues

Reply #19 –
Mike,
A big thanks for all of the info.  I bookmarked it for future reference.  Now I hope the valve will open when I need it on the remainder of our trip.  I guess I can test it by turning on the fill valve while on pump.  If the pump cycles it is working right?  If I turn the fill valve off the pump should stop cycling.
John M