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Topic: Yellow patches surfacing around headlight conversion and Xtreme's response (Read 1445 times) previous topic - next topic

Yellow patches surfacing around headlight conversion and Xtreme's response

We went to NAC yesterday and stopped by Xtreme Paint & Graphics for an evaluation of a discoloration on the lower front cap that started becoming noticeable about a year and a half after our Xtreme make over in December 2013. During that makeover, detailed in this thread, An Xtreme Christmas, and a shiny New Year, the lower front parts of the endcaps were cut out and new pieces made from molds that Xtreme fabricated for this upgrade were fitted. The process is impressive to say the least. I gained a lot of respect for the skill that these artisans at Xtreme bring to their work. It was easy to see why Xtreme stays so busy and normally have to schedule work out so far in advance. Well, a bit over two years ago I started noticing a very subtle yellow cast in random areas in the new gel coat around the area that was redone during the conversion, including the generator hatch which had had the fog light holes removed and a license plate recess added. This was disconcerting to say the least. My worst fear was that the gel coat was from a bad batch that had no UV protection or was improperly mixed (I thought this least likely considering Rance's knowledge base).

We decided to include a trip back to Texas as part of our travels this year. Since it was difficult to get the yellowing to show up in pictures, I wanted to show the issue to Rance in person. The picture below had to be adjusted extensively to show the yellowing at all, yet in certain lighting condition, I couldn't help but notice the blotching. Since it wasn't possible to predict exactly when we would make to NAC, I decided to just drop in to have Rance look at the issue. My instinct was that they would work us in somehow, snd be eager to remedy the unacceptable situation. Still, I have to admit hearing how booked up Xtreme is with work at all times, that I was apprehensive about what kind of reception my request would receive considering our unexpected arrival and the amount of time since the work was completed. I needn't have been concerned. Rance was called out from the back and when he examined the yellow blotches, he said that he thought this was Patch-Aid and could be sanded out and rebuffed. Apparently, this product is used to promote the gel coat cure and is sanded off before buffing after the gel coat cures. The Patch Aid has no UV resistance and will yellow if not sanded off completely.

Whatever the case, there was absolutely no question that Rance and Xtreme had would take care of us and stand behind their work, even four years after the work was completed. In fact, had Rance not been a pall bearer in a funeral the next day (today), they would have taken care of it immediately the next morning (it was already 3PM when we got there and he had to have a coach ready for the paint shop that afternoon, or he would have started on it immediately). We are scheduled to go in next Wednesday, so we came back to Lake Conroe Thousand Trails. It will add an extra 240 miles to our trip, but that is trivial in the scheme of things. I am so thankful that this issue will soon be resolved and our beloved coach will be cured of jaundice, without further expenditure of coach bucks!
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Don & Tys
1999 U270 3602 WTFE #5402
Xtreme Stage 1 w/Headlight, Step Conversion, etc.
2009 Honda Fit Sport with Navi
Freedom is NOT "just another word for nothing left to lose"... with apologies to Kris Kristofferson

Re: Yellow patches surfacing around headlight conversion and Xtreme's response

Reply #1 –
I'm relieved to see someone else had the same issue.  We had the roof edge repaired and gel coated. It started turning yellow about two years after completion. I thought the gelcoat was going bad. Looks like a trip back to Xtreme for sanding and buffing.
The selected media item is not currently available.Bob & Faith Rozek
1997 U320 40'
Xtreme Remodel
2010 Scion XD

Re: Yellow patches surfacing around headlight conversion and Xtreme's response

Reply #2 –
Aside from the Patch Aid not being sanded off entirely, Rance did mention that they had had a bad batch of gel coat at one point. From what I gathered during our brief conversation, that will have a more uniform yellowing rather than the blotchy apperance that resulted in my return trip to Xtreme. In any case, if there is a problem with the work they did, I feel sure that they will stand behind it. That is what results from having integrity and taking pride in your work, in my opinion. However, if you have the ability to plan a specific time frame, I am sure they would appreciate as much notice as you can give. I would hate to set a bad example, but I just had no way to predict when we would get to NAC. I was working on finishing up the trailer roof at home base up until they last day we could leave for Canada, and then six weeks of doing projects at Bills fabulous warehouse... we were hoping to be back in So Cal by Thanksgiving. That has now turned into being back for Christmas with the grandkids. I just work so darn slow ::), or maybe just that I keep adding to the scope of projects after I start them. Anyway, it is a good thing I am not paying myself by the hour.
Don
Quote from: flite2010 –
I'm relieved to see someone else had the same issue.  We had the roof edge repaired and gel coated. It started turning yellow about two years after completion. I thought the gelcoat was going bad. Looks like a trip back to Xtreme for sanding and buffing.
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Don & Tys
1999 U270 3602 WTFE #5402
Xtreme Stage 1 w/Headlight, Step Conversion, etc.
2009 Honda Fit Sport with Navi
Freedom is NOT "just another word for nothing left to lose"... with apologies to Kris Kristofferson

Re: Yellow patches surfacing around headlight conversion and Xtreme's response

Reply #3 –
i had xtreme do my headlight conversion  several years ago, and i also have had yellow blotches
show up in that area.  i remember rance complaining about the lighting in the shop when he
was doing the job.  he threw a handful of yellow powder in the gel coat mixture, and i thought
later, he may have put to much yellow in , and perhaps i  was the only one affected with the yellow
blotches.  I have been meaning to call james and ask him about it, but never got around to it.  I can't
really justify a trip back to nac to fix the problem.  I wonder how many others have this problem?


Re: Yellow patches surfacing around headlight conversion and Xtreme's response

Reply #4 –
I was at extreme picking up my coach Friday, wish we would have crossed path's
The selected media item is not currently available.Keith & Jo
2003 U320T 4025 PBBS Designer series
Build 6203    Cummins 500hp
2000 U320 4010 WTFE / Build 5762 —Sold—
Motorcade #18070   
Pasadena, Texas
2015 Jeep Wrangler Sahara-Sunset Orange pearl coat
Don't argue with a fool, people watching might not be able to tell the difference.

Re: Yellow patches surfacing around headlight conversion and Xtreme's response

Reply #5 –
Today was an Xtreme day... in a good way. We arrived at about 3:30 in the afternoon and got hooked up around the side of the building on one of the many 50A stations. This morning at about 8am, Greg shuffled coaches around and got us inside, which is a good thing as it was in the mid 30's with a chill breeze blowing. Rance was very apologetic and not the least bit put out to have to work us into his eXtremly busy schedule. He made marks with a pencil to give him a visible guide while sanding as the dust would quickly make it hard to see the subtle blotches. He started in the areas that required hand sanding like the recesses around the headlights with 400 grit dry and then moved on to a random orbit air sander and made judicious use of the variable speed so as to not burn through the gel coat while sanding off the patch-aid, which having no UV protection had yellowed over time and sun exposure.

As I mentioned in my first post, Rance uses the Patch-Aid as a coating over the gel finish coat. It is clear and difficult to see when new, but the gel coat won't fully cure in the presence of air and needs to be covered. Some use wax, but I gather that has its own problems. Anyway, Rance had a new helper at the time and though the fellow appeared to be willing enough, he may have laid on the patch aid a bit thick. This is my theory, but Race accepted full responsibility for the result and proceeded to make good on it today. Though to be fair, I got so excited at the transformation, I got greedy and added several upgrades that were not in the original work order. So I have to admit to causing a traffic jam in Xtreme's full schedule. The basic headlight conversion turned into moving the fog lights and adding a license plate recess to the generator door, and then there is the entry steps, and the the graphics removal turned into a modified stage 1 painted graphics with our design and... oh well you get the idea, I was a kid in the coach candy store. These folks are just so darn accommodating, and they actually love their work, but I digress... the point is, there was a schedule crunch and I think it is fair to say that the appearance of yellow blotches was a manifestation of that fact. Mea Culpa.

So after completing the dry sanding with 400 grit, he moved on to wet sanding with 800, and finally compounding with this product call Aqua Buff 1000 and then 2000. There are a few extra tricks he used between stages, such as this black powder dusted on that would show up scratches. It was a pleasure watching him work and I learned some stuff which may come in handy one of these days, but hopefully not soon. Kudos to Rance, Greg, James Stallings etc. for standing behind their work without blinking. When it was all done, the coach got rolled around the front and got a complementary wash by Greg, Rance, and a few others. Wow, what a relief to have this done! Now spending the night at Camp Foretravel and will work our way back to San Diego for Christmas with the kiddies. During these few days in NAC, we had the unexpected pleasure of running into Kent and Peggy Spears with there gorgeous full body paint U300 and Brett Harrison with his unmistakable psychedelic U320 at Camp Foretravel who had both recently had work done at Xtreme. It is a small Foretravel world here in NAC. Can you tell I am happy? ;D
Don
Edit: Obviously the close picture of the hatch is before Rance started on the sanding, this picture shows the yellowing as seen by the eye better than any other I have taken...
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Don & Tys
1999 U270 3602 WTFE #5402
Xtreme Stage 1 w/Headlight, Step Conversion, etc.
2009 Honda Fit Sport with Navi
Freedom is NOT "just another word for nothing left to lose"... with apologies to Kris Kristofferson

Re: Yellow patches surfacing around headlight conversion and Xtreme's response

Reply #6 –
Don, when leaving?  Maybe lunch Sunday or Monday or wine at house one evening?
Mike
2001 U320 4010 Build 5878 (Gus)
Wrangle Unlimited Toad
Nacogdoches

Re: Yellow patches surfacing around headlight conversion and Xtreme's response

Reply #7 –
Thanks for the thought and the invite Michael & Jackie! We still remember seeing your lovely home, and was struck by the deer eating right on the other side of the fence in your backyard. Unfortunately, we are hitting the road tomorrow morning and have reservations Lake Whitney. Our stay at Bill Chaplin's warehouse ran quite a bit longer then our original plan allowed for and we will be hard put to hit all of our destinations and still get to San Diego by Christmas for the grandkids. Maybe next time we come to Nacogdoches, we will have more time to hang out and enjoy Texas hospitality. Today was taken up with chasing down an air leak in my new primary filter setup. Hopefully our ride to Lake Whitney tomorrow will prove that I was successful. Sorry we missed you...
Don & Tys
Quote from: Michael & Jackie –
Don, when leaving?  Maybe lunch Sunday or Monday or wine at house one evening?
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Don & Tys
1999 U270 3602 WTFE #5402
Xtreme Stage 1 w/Headlight, Step Conversion, etc.
2009 Honda Fit Sport with Navi
Freedom is NOT "just another word for nothing left to lose"... with apologies to Kris Kristofferson

Re: Yellow patches surfacing around headlight conversion and Xtreme's response

Reply #8 –
Don,
It was nice to meet you finally after knowing you so many years on the forum.  Maybe we'll run into each other again as we head west next week to North Ranch, then Las Vegas for Christmas.
Regards,
Brett

'99 42' Foretravel Xtreme
'14 Brown Motorsports Stacker
'05 Chevy SSR
'02 BMW R1150R

Re: Yellow patches surfacing around headlight conversion and Xtreme's response

Reply #9 –
                       All the talk with this yellowing thing has my attention . Good that Xtreme is covering their mistakes but ----why did it take place in the first place . Wonder how many coaches got this as a problem and  some owners  don't even know it yet .  Have not heard of this taking place at FOT , MOT or OTM  or any place else .  Sure hope they got it figured out as I know Xtreme is a class act . I feel bad for the folks that have to travel back to NAC just to get it fixed .  :(    Brad Metzger
Brad Metzger
2010 Phenix 45'

Re: Yellow patches surfacing around headlight conversion and Xtreme's response

Reply #10 –
Well Brad, I look at it this way... There was an error made in the rush to finish all of the modifications and upgrades at Xtreme. I doubt that it would have happened at all had I not tried to cram in more and more goodies into our stay in Nacogdoches. In spite of that, I am grateful to Xtreme for their willingness to find a way to accommodate my wishes, in spite of the schedule crunch. Kid in a candy store and all that... Now, maybe Rance had a bad day, or maybe the inexperienced helper he had wasn't ready for the level of autonomy granted as Rance was doing things that only Rance could do on other items on my list. The bottom line is, Xtreme made good on it- no paperwork required, profuse apologies made, and results to justify my faith. All this in spite of Xtreme's dance card being full into May of next year and us just popping in unannounced. I am a happy camper!

Besides in my case, I got to renew friendships and spend six weeks in a shop not far from NAC getting projects done which would have been very difficult to accomplish otherwise (Thanks Bill C!). Given that Xtreme has done hundreds of these headlight conversions starting way back in 2005 (IIRC), as well as delamination repairs, collision repairs etc., where the original gelcoat was superbly color matched, I am confident that a "Yellowgate" hysteria isn't called for. Inevitably, there will be a few instances where this has happened, but that is life. I have read of, and experienced myself, issues with work performed at FOT. Was I happy with that? No, and in my case FOT did not go out of their way to make good on it. Life goes on...
Don
Quote from: Brad Metzger –
                      All the talk with this yellowing thing has my attention . Good that Xtreme is covering their mistakes but ----why did it take place in the first place . Wonder how many coaches got this as a problem and  some owners  don't even know it yet .  Have not heard of this taking place at FOT , MOT or OTM  or any place else .  Sure hope they got it figured out as I know Xtreme is a class act . I feel bad for the folks that have to travel back to NAC just to get it fixed .  :(    Brad Metzger
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Don & Tys
1999 U270 3602 WTFE #5402
Xtreme Stage 1 w/Headlight, Step Conversion, etc.
2009 Honda Fit Sport with Navi
Freedom is NOT "just another word for nothing left to lose"... with apologies to Kris Kristofferson

Re: Yellow patches surfacing around headlight conversion and Xtreme's response

Reply #11 –
Quote from: wayne m –
  I wonder how many others have this problem?

X2.  Except I do not know where the "Pre-PO had it done. It is faint but I can see it.
Ed and Michele
2000 U295  36'  (Build #5600)
8.3 ISC 350HP.
2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee (Toad)
2001 Lance Truck Camper (Sold)
2001 Lazy Daze (Class C). RK Floor Plan (Sold)