Waited TOO long!

Topic: Waited TOO long! (Read 1850 times) previous topic - next topic

Waited TOO long!

December 19, 2017, 12:17:57 pm

All the things I've been doing to Falcor have improved my coach greatly. There was one nagging issue I knew I would have to tackle sooner or later. Turns out it wasn't soon enough! Last night I came back from viewing Christmas lights here in San Diego and noticed the coach leaning a little more than normal. No problem, fired up the coach, built the air back up, and releveled. I shut off after the comforting woosh and immediately felt a lean toward the curb. Went outside and sure enough, there's a hole in the right rear airbag (aft of the wheel) venting air out.

Go figure! Holiday season, temporarily at a friends, and a bad airbag. Called all the local places and none of them have the Firestone or equivalent. Called 'Ol Faithful (Find-It-Parts) and found they have the Continental equivalent (AS9448) on sale for $88.10 each. Thought only for half a second and ordered 8, totaling $775 including Calif sales tax and free shipping (from Visalia). They'll be here by Thursday! YAY!

Now it's time to go to a local hardware place and get those frame blocks I've also been putting off getting. It still raises temporarily, so I hope to get the blocks in before it drops back down. One thing I'm still a little foggy on, I intend on getting square 2" tubing cut to 6 1/2 inches. I figure it should be enough. My question is, do I need to have 2 and place each on the two ends? Just covering all the bases before getting it done, and I'll test some of the bolts before deciding to take the fender off, SHOULD be able to get it done with the fender on, but will see. I'll change the others at a more appropriate location.

Re: Waited TOO long!

Reply #1 – December 19, 2017, 12:27:41 pm

Most use longer/taller safety stands to give more clearance. At ride height, there is 8.5" between the beams which is where the safety stands go. Using the up arrow on the leveling system will gain you another couple of inches. I would measure clearance on YOUR COACH and make the safety stands 1/2 to 1" shorter. This gives you max working room but insures that you will be able to remove them.

And, yes, if you have 4 stands and are working on the rear axle, use one inboard of each air bag. Puts less stress on the coach.

Re: Waited TOO long!

Reply #2 – December 19, 2017, 12:42:23 pm

Unless the hole in the airbag is large, a tubeless tire plug will do a good temporary job. Block the coach up, insert the plug with the tool and glue, allow to set a few minutes and then inflate. The holes are usually facing the tire so easy to get to.

Level ground with both sides of an opposite corner tire blocked and be careful.

Pierce

Re: Waited TOO long!

Reply #3 – December 19, 2017, 01:41:21 pm

I use 12" stands on our coach (your coach's younger brother). They slip in place with about 1/2" clearance. If the corner with the bad air bag won't raise up fully, you could give it a little help with a small hydraulic jack placed between the frame members, just until you can get the safety support in place.

Re: Waited TOO long!

Reply #4 – December 19, 2017, 02:32:11 pm

Here is the one minute way to get the coach up in position to put the safeties in. I was going to spray vulcanize the old bag and reuse it but decided to change it out.

Hey, who hasn't driven on old tires with a few cords showing?

Pierce

Re: Waited TOO long!

Reply #5 – December 20, 2017, 07:17:11 pm

LOL Your bag is showing more cords than mine! I like your lift system, I think I will replicate that. Thank you

Re: Waited TOO long!

Reply #6 – December 20, 2017, 11:35:49 pm

I bought four of these at Harbor Freight 2" to 1-1/4" Hitch Adapter I sometimes have to raise the rv to put them in, and sometimes because of air loss, have to raise the rv again to take out. They are 12", was going to cut them to 11", however I like having the extra inch. I would never crawl under without these and tire chocks.

Re: Waited TOO long!

Reply #7 – December 22, 2017, 01:22:46 pm

Went to start tackling this today, all 8 airbags came in yesterday. I tried raising the right side and it was leaking just too much. So I capped off the air line to that bag, and tried raising the right side again, but there seems to be a leak in the other bag!

Q: I have a 20 ton bottle jack. Where do I jack from to get the frame high enough to get the blocks under? Right now there is only 4" between the frame members and can't fit anything in there.

Re: Waited TOO long!

Reply #8 – December 22, 2017, 01:27:42 pm

hmmmm. Maybe re connect first one and cap off second one? are you sure first one leaking? did you check with soapy water?

If both leaking others will have to check in where to place jack

Tim Fiedler

Sure Start Soft Start

TCER Direct generator-gas-prod 630 240-9139
Gen-Pro

Re: Waited TOO long!

Reply #9 – December 22, 2017, 01:37:15 pm

The right rear, rear bag has a 1/3" hole. The right rear, front bag is not holding pressure.

Re: Waited TOO long!

Reply #10 – December 22, 2017, 01:53:05 pm

sorry - not familiar with your suspension - thought it was an eight bag system - sounds like a four bag system?

If eight bag, can you cap off the two offending bags on either end and use 6 bags to lift?

Good luck, sorry to offer my uninformed 2 cents!!!! :-) I will go back to Christmas cookie baking!

Tim Fiedler

Sure Start Soft Start

TCER Direct generator-gas-prod 630 240-9139
Gen-Pro

Re: Waited TOO long!

Reply #11 – December 22, 2017, 02:08:24 pm

Quote from: Mark D – December 20, 2017, 07:17:11 pm

LOL Your bag is showing more cords than mine! I like your lift system, I think I will replicate that. Thank you

OK, the deluxe system uses two Harbor Freight air/manual jacks. They are frequently on sale and if you have the "Inside Track Club" membership, you may save even more. I purchased a couple of aluminum floor jacks and when I went to check out, they were only $59/ea so the Inside Club may save $ or two on the air jacks. They probably come with an industrial chuck male but I use a shop chuck male fitting so I changed it. I don't even start my small compressor but just use the coach air. Either one is fine. With two jacks, you can raise both rear or front sides and keep the front or back even.

Search results for: 'air jack'

I welded up the adapter and made a couple of reliefs on it not shown in the photos. The front will need a slightly different adapter.

The jack goes up in a rapid series of puffs using the hand control. It can also be raised manually with the supplied lever.

No negatives so far on my jacks. I think Bill Chaplin bought a couple also. I carry one on board along with a spare bag and misc R&R tools.

One third of an inch might be repaired with a tubeless tire plug. They may be doubled over when inserted. Naturally, only until the coach is home or in a good location to change the bag.

A one dollar spray bottle with the German Pustefix bubble solution is the best way as the bubbles are huge and last a long time but dishwasher soap will also work. Amazon.com: Pustefix Premium Bubbles Refill 8.3 fl.0z.: Toys & Games

Pierce

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: Waited TOO long!

Reply #12 – December 22, 2017, 02:31:33 pm

Tim, it's 8 bag. The two around the right rear are the issue. Have an air jack, just looking for the optimal point to jack from. Under the shackles or at the frame rail the bottom is attached to?

Re: Waited TOO long!

Reply #13 – December 22, 2017, 05:59:21 pm

This is the HF adaptor I would use if buying one.

Class III 12 in. x 2 in. Standard Receiver Tube

Re: Waited TOO long!

Reply #14 – December 22, 2017, 06:10:49 pm

Don is probably our expert in "where to jack up a Foretravel" since he virtually rebuilt the structure of his coach.

If he doesn't see this post, might PM him.

Re: Waited TOO long!

Reply #15 – December 22, 2017, 06:27:07 pm

Quote from: craneman – December 22, 2017, 05:59:21 pm

This is the HF adaptor I would use if buying one.

Class III 12 in. x 2 in. Standard Receiver Tube

I have those and they work well.

Re: Waited TOO long!

Reply #16 – December 23, 2017, 01:25:44 am

Hey Chuck,
Maybe send me a PM with your phone number... I might be able to give you some relevant info. It is more complicated if an air spring is pancaked and the top and bottom H frames are too close together to put a bottle jack next to the air spring, but where there is a will there is a way! See Pierce's post about the adapter he made to jack up under the shackle, as long as the bulkhead is solid. What is the clearance next to the air bag in question? A 12 ton stubby bottle jack can be had pretty cheaply. It doesn't have air assist, but I doubt that feature would allow a jack to fit in the confined space next to a flat air bag... I wouldn't want to go less than a 12 ton. I tried a six ton once and it felt like it was going to bust a gut. I was able to increase the space about an inch or so with it... just enough to slip in a 20 ton manual one I had, but that bag wasn't completely flat.
Don

Quote from: Balcanthez – December 22, 2017, 02:31:33 pm

Tim, it's 8 bag. The two around the right rear are the issue. Have an air jack, just looking for the optimal point to jack from. Under the shackles or at the frame rail the bottom is attached to?

Re: Waited TOO long!

Reply #17 – December 23, 2017, 05:52:06 am

Right rear is complete. I went to Harbor Freight and picked up a 12-ton air/hydraulic jack. After surveying all the possible points I jacked up from below the shackle where there is a vertical frame going up. Hooked it up to my pancake compressor and up it went. Inserted the safety supports and took off the fender skirt. Some was attached pretty well with adhesive, but a putty knife got it separated. Missed a few screws at the top, and when I thought it would be free, it wasn't. The front bottom support was pop riveted, so I had to drill that out.

Once the skirt was off, it was easy access to get the bags out. The rear one had lots of room, the front one has a tight space for the front bolt. Used a 5/8 to disconnect the air line, then pulled the elbow, then used a 1 1/8" wrench to get the air line bolt off. The other 3 bolts (1 top, 2 bottom) were 3/4". I used my air ratchet to remove the bottom ones with a 10" extension. Zip-Zip, they were off. The top bolts were tight the whole way up. Once the bolts were removed, pried the bag down first to get it out. Cleaned the area and installed the 2 new bags attaching the top bolts first, then pulling it down into the holes on the bottom.

I HIGHLY recommend removing the fender skirt. The forward bag 3/4" bolt was in a slot, and even though I had ratcheting box wrenches, I could still only get 2 clicks at a time (see pic). I drew the skirt and inserted the screws to keep track of locations and not lose any (see pics). I also used a strip of painters tape to place the screws from the molding, since several were different sizes. Used permatex to seal the air fittings on the bags, and was happy with no bubbles for my lines check before reinstalling the skirt. I reused the air fittings, but replaced all the other bolts and lock washers with stainless.

Once complete with the 2 bags, I aired up, removed the jack and the safety supports, and it did well. Will tackle the driver rear bags tomorrow.

Lessons learned:
1. There are 4 screws along the top of the skirt under the molding. Mine were hard to see.
2. I siliconed the skirt back in place, including filling the holes before replacing the screws. Had to use a putty knife to release it from the frame, then cleaned off any residual adhesive.
3. My safety frame supports are 12". After this job is complete, I'm going to cut them down to 10". Just not enough room to get them in or out with only 1/2" clearance.
4. DON'T put the job off! The bag that had a hole was thread bare (see pic)
5. Keep track of the screws. I drew a skirt on a paper and screwed the screws into the locations they came from (see Pic), helped a LOT.

Re: Waited TOO long!

Reply #18 – December 23, 2017, 06:38:55 am

You did it right.

Re: Waited TOO long!

Reply #19 – December 23, 2017, 08:16:04 am

Hey Chuck,

Excellent photo report. Will be very helpful to those who haven't been there...yet. I'm lucky, cuz our coach's PO replaced all of our bags.

Looks like you had a pretty nice place to work, and decent sunny weather. Better than doing it in sleet and snow!

Cheers, The Other Chuck

Re: Waited TOO long!

Reply #20 – December 23, 2017, 11:15:27 am

Chuck, liked the fact at least you agree with my many comments on removing those fenders to make life easy. I have been telling all to do that but some are scared to do it with a paint job. I have FBPaint and they go back perfect. Those small headed scres to hold the panel under trim are needed as you found out. I have had every panel off and some a few times to do things.
What I do to remember were the short screws go is just put a small piece of tape above those locations. I have only found 2 different sizes so it works fine.
JohnH

Re: Waited TOO long!

Reply #21 – December 26, 2017, 10:36:37 pm

Well, my Christmas and day after project is complete. All 8 bags are new. Came out to Peg Leg by Borrego Springs and had no problems with the removal and replacement. Some more points I learned along the way:

1. Use a putty knife behind the fender between the fiberglass and the frame to break the caulking seal. Works really well.

2. Painted areas do come out good (thanks John). There are a few nicks that I will touch up.

3. I can't imagine anyone doing this without taking the fenders off, they only take 10 minutes to remove and 5 minutes (after putting more caulk down) to replace.

4. 2 sizes of screws were prevalent: smaller for the outside and longer for under the strips to hold the tops of the fenders on.

5. I had a couple screws that felt stripped when replacing, so I used Twig's fix (toothpick dipped in wood glue inserted into the hole, then the screw has something fresh to bite into)

6. There is a WHOLE LOT of room under the front cap! That is, for us Unihomes. The two very front airbags were changed without needing the fenders off. The two behind them REQUIRED it.

7. Get the top bolts snugged and pull the bottom down into the bottom holes. This worked out well.

I included pictures of the driver rear, and the two fronts. In all my searches, I never found pictures of the fenders removed. The next one is a bag snugged before pulling the base down to seat the bottom bolts. The last picture was the right front (rear) bag, they were ALL due to be replaced.

Feels great to get that done! Next job will be to rebuild the six-packs.

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