Low Power From Engine

Topic: Low Power From Engine (Read 3060 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Low Power From Engine

Reply #25 – January 22, 2018, 11:36:26 am

From this picture yes it is now take a look forward.

Re: Low Power From Engine

Reply #26 – January 22, 2018, 11:39:38 am

Quote from: George and Steph – January 22, 2018, 11:36:26 am

From this picture yes it is now take a look forward.

OK, thanks George, I will do that this afternoon.

Re: Low Power From Engine

Reply #27 – January 22, 2018, 11:46:33 am

I posted on this a few months ago but can't find the link. I replaced both switches and the relay. Napa carries the parts. No further problems. You may have the manual as an addendum in your main manual. They were sold to Cruise King and are great customer service folk.

Re: Low Power From Engine

Reply #28 – January 22, 2018, 11:55:58 am

Quote from: George and Steph – January 22, 2018, 11:46:33 am

I posted on this a few months ago but can't find the link. I replaced both switches and the relay.

Is this it?

Intermittent power 97 270 KC2600 not fuel

Re: Low Power From Engine

Reply #29 – January 22, 2018, 11:57:03 am

You are so good! Yup that's it. Thank you.

Re: Low Power From Engine

Reply #30 – January 22, 2018, 12:05:20 pm

SO, Super8, if you actually have the King throttle system, you can forget about reading the Bendix material. No need to clutter up your brain with unnecessary data.

Re: Low Power From Engine

Reply #31 – January 22, 2018, 12:32:55 pm

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – January 22, 2018, 12:05:20 pm

SO, Super8, if you actually have the King throttle system, you can forget about reading the Bendix material. No need to clutter up your brain with unnecessary data.

Huh??? what day is this, where am I "LOL"

Thanks

Re: Low Power From Engine

Reply #32 – January 22, 2018, 12:35:32 pm

Quote from: George and Steph – January 22, 2018, 11:57:03 am

You are so good! Yup that's it. Thank you.

Thanks George, OK, now where might I find that 20/30 amp relay in the last picture?

Did you just clean the two switches or replace them?

Re: Low Power From Engine

Reply #33 – January 22, 2018, 12:40:14 pm

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – January 22, 2018, 12:05:20 pm

No need to clutter up your brain with unnecessary data

One of the head scratchers I have with the plethora of paperwork I have is a lot of it was not removed when a different item was installed!

Re: Low Power From Engine

Reply #34 – January 22, 2018, 12:41:51 pm

Mike,

You have Bendix air throttle and King Control Cruise. That is the best/most reliable set up.

Re: Low Power From Engine

Reply #35 – January 22, 2018, 12:42:17 pm

Napa has those as well but they are common. I replaced the brake switches. CAUTION you need to bleed the air first. It is my understanding they don't fail often but I preferred replacement. They are in the heavy equipment stock. Search the Forum under brake switch for their part number.

Re: Low Power From Engine

Reply #36 – January 22, 2018, 01:22:12 pm

Foretravel had problems with the King Control, sometime in 1995 -1998 they came up with a kit to change the electronic throttle to an air throttle, it came with a new foot pedal, air cylinder and new throttle cable and brackets, this eliminated the king control as the throttle, but it retained it for the cruise control, if you think you have the air throttle check the foot pedal for three air lines, this will help diagnose your problem.

Re: Low Power From Engine

Reply #37 – January 22, 2018, 04:07:17 pm

We had a similar problem in Colorado about two years ago. We didn't think that the filters were clogged but replaced them anyway. That did not help so we took it to a truck shop. It took them a long time to figure out what was wrong. The primary (water separator) filter mount has entrance and exit canals for the fuel to flow into and out of the filter. The exit canal is open but the entrance canal has about a dozen or so small holes designed to keep debris out. Most of these holes were blocked with what appeared to be rubber bits. The mechanic replaced the mount with another one which solved the problem and we were able to complete our trip. We had MOT check the fuel line but they couldn't see anything wrong with it. I'm guessing we got some hose debris from a fuel pump.

Re: Low Power From Engine

Reply #38 – January 22, 2018, 04:08:52 pm

Thanks for the info Rob.

Re: Low Power From Engine

Reply #39 – January 22, 2018, 04:31:41 pm

Well FOT is going to send me a new filter and the tech said that the King System needed to be replaced with the air system.

I will have the switches tomorrow so I will get them in and see what happens first. Are their any tools besides end wrenches and nut drivers needed to replace these?

Re: Low Power From Engine

Reply #40 – January 22, 2018, 04:59:56 pm

If you need help diagnosing the King Control, Steve is excellent. Have not contacted him in a couple of years, but try this contact information:

King Control. Steve Boler. 22250 Glyview Trail, Faribault MN 55021, 507-334-0250 try 952 944-9644 FIRST. Steve@cruisecontrolking.com. Semi Truck, Bus, RV, Service Vehicle Cruise Control Installation

And, agree the combination of air throttle and King Control cruise is an excellent way to go. But, to get it going, after fuel filters, or at least replace the damaged primary and cut it open to see if it is contaminated), you might troubleshoot the King unit with Steve.

Re: Low Power From Engine

Reply #41 – January 22, 2018, 06:24:33 pm

Thanks for the contact info Brett.

I had asked FOT to keep the old filters for be but that didn't pan out but I will cut this one up and see if I see anything after 239 miles and over 5 hours driving time.

Re: Low Power From Engine

Reply #42 – January 23, 2018, 09:25:40 pm

Others have mentioned the fuel solenoid. It is located on right side forward of injector pump as looking in from rear. Pull up on plunger fully, cable tie it in up position. If this fixes the low power, just drive that way until you can get it fixed. Tie it up before starting and cut the tie to let it fall down to stop engine, as ignition key will not stop engine if fuel solenoid is tied up. I fuel shutoff solenoid does not lift, engine will not start. If solenoid pull up just a little, engine will start and you will have low fuel flow causing low power.

Re: Low Power From Engine

Reply #43 – February 01, 2018, 11:09:52 am

When I purchased mine the drive home was a nightmare. It would go for about 5-10 miles then loose power to where my unit would only do 20 for a while and die. it would start back up and do the same thing 100 miles later I found some extra filters in the roof compartment changed them and made it home. It has done this a few more times and I have changed the three filters about five times I need to drain the fuel tank but just waiting to get under 50 gallons.

Re: Low Power From Engine

Reply #44 – February 01, 2018, 12:35:24 pm

First thing I would do now is cut the filter open and see if it actually plugged up and go from there.

Re: Low Power From Engine

Reply #45 – February 01, 2018, 12:43:36 pm

My history with fuel delivery problems for 8.3 Cummins in 1996 Foretravel.

Owned this motorhome for 17 years. Performed all maintenance and most repairs. No trust of professional shops and unwilling to work to their schedule.

Six years ago, a series of intermittent "partial power" incidents occurred. Caused by the fuel shutoff valve (FSV) binding when opening. This condition restricted fuel for high power. Usually had enough power to roll out; not to accelerate (swiftly). Among these occurrences, I pissed off Dallas drivers while on an elevated single-lane overpass going 10mph. When home, this intermittent-reduced-fuel condition was corrected by removing this electrically-operated (normally ON/OFF; not partially open/OFF) valve. Cleaned the valve and its moving parts. Repaired a keeper ring internal to the valve that caused binding. Re-installed; monitored future operation. (FT forum offered a temporary fix for this condition. Secure this valve open with wire or a wire-tie. Remove restraint for shutdown.)

For two years, I chased a small fuel leak. (Only happened when engine operating.) Leak finally enlarged enough to locate source—a crack in the Lift Pump. $40 Lift/Transfer pump 3917998 replaced in May 2016. (Note: I heard a "clunk" when inserting this new pump, holding this part in-place, as a helper inserted the attaching bolts.) No fuel leakage, or oil from crankcase, detected.

Then fuel delivery problems again. Often, starting led to unexplained shutdown at idle. In cruise, intermittent fuel starvation. (Transmission would downshift from 6 to 5 and then 5 to 4, attempting to maintain set speed. Usually corrected itself before progressing to shutdown. But not always.) Did I install an "under-sized" lift pump? Shutdown became the normal result whenever power loss reared its occasionally unsafe or usually embarrassing head.
Changed Primary and Secondary filters, although Secondary was almost new. This did not help. Generator, driven by a small 3-cylinder diesel engine, ran well as it drew fuel from same tank as big engine. (Generator fuel lines had been replaced several years ago.) So, I dismissed "poor fuel" as cause. However, my 21-year old, 24-foot, fuel line from Tank to Primary Filter could be compromised with air leaks or blockage. As well as the 4-foot line from Primary Filter to Lift Pump. Or objects swirling in the fuel tank, randomly sucked over the tank outlet. Or ....

During a Spring trip, removed FSV and temporarily replaced with wire-tie to hold full open for that day's drive. (Wire-tie removed and fuel lever on HiPressure Pump hand-moved to Off position to shutdown for remainder of 3-week trip visiting ancient Indians in NM-CO-AZ.) Replaced fuel return-check valve in Cortez CO (Cortez Diesel). New one broke while I installed it. Re-installed old one. After "bleeding system" of air, the engine would not continue running using manual pump on Lift Pump to prime for start. (Wife and I became proficient at "bleeding the system" after filter changes and return-check-valve swap.) Repeated (six times) the electric "air purge" using Primary Filter setup. Engine remained operating after start. Electric-Priming became procedure for restart when it quit—to get home.

- 10 June 2016: Replaced Fuel Return Check Valve 3924726 (Arkvalleydiesel, $21).
- 16 June: As advertised, ordered a $403 new FSV 4089574 from Arkvalleydiesel. (This was the original Cummins part.) They sent a Synchro Start 3935649 instead! (Previous online purchase $65, China-made, 3935649 did not hold open—after "starter circuit" of solenoid released when ignition key position changed. Only the "ignition circuit" solenoid portion was powered. Ignition switch? Failing relay in hold-circuit? Perhaps wiring was different on this revised model of FSV?) Barry's photo on Foretravel website has this numbered part as a replacement for original FSV. Cummins Technical Service Bulletin contains testing and installation details for this Synchro Start FSV: minimum pull-in voltage 8.3, min hold-in voltage 4.4, energized rod length 2.93 inches. Returned over-priced Arkvalley unit for credit. Much "fiddling" (I appreciate that this might be a professional term.) with my previously purchased 3935649 FSV unit to discover correct adjustment for open and closed conditions.
- 22 June: a (now) bookmarked forum thread includes other additions, considerations, and changes to the fuel delivery system. Some useful, such as: installing a fuel pressure gauge at HP, and the adjustable Tork Return Valve on the HP.
- 29 June: slowly died on way back from a Taos fueling run. Twice! Of course, once while at center of Taos with no way to get off the road. Installed Tork-Tec Adjustable Return Valve. Set for normal pressure. No leaks.
- 02 July: Vowed to re-tighten ALL connections removing possible AIR leaks in fuel system. New washers at banjo connections. Tightened filters; line junctions. Re-cleaned Primary pre-filter and replaced O-rings.
Next step should be a fuel pressure reading. Local diesel shop said, "Have no fittings." And shrugged with a smile. While visiting brother in Kansas, an Olathe truck repair shop technician said he had a gauge and fittings when I phoned. But, did not after I backed in to his slot. Before departing my brother's place, all fuel components had been changed, including the fuel lines. Still had starting problems, and power loss episodes, on way home to NM.
- In December 2017, used CorrosionX on all "drive-by-wire" throttle connections. Sensor at pedal, and all electrical junctions on the engine firewall. This improved throttle response. Test run was okay with wind from behind on level 13-mile jaunt to weigh scales. (... new carpet installed.) On return, into the wind: slow acceleration, with coolant temperature of 170F. (180 was normal before fuel woes.) Reduced coolant temp, even when climbing hills, indicated to me that excess fuel never gets to the cylinders. I still had a fuel-delivery problem.
- Finally, in January 2018, I installed an electronic fuel pressure gage in the dash, $130. (Wires had been laid under new carpet. From snubber+sensor installed on engine, to the former electric clock hole in dash.) Inserted gauge, connected ignition circuits, and 12vdc instead of headlight-switch-ON. This provided continuous dimmed presentation of green lit dial and red needle plus the digital PSI number. Operation now showed that priming, before start, produced 17psi, which reduced to 0 (@30 seconds later) as fuel pressure was spent during start and idle. No one ever said my engine would ran at 0 psi! Nevertheless, this suggested the lift pump was not functional. Removed AC compressor+mounting bracket to expose Tork-Tec adjustable HP return valve. Increased priming pump pressure to 20 psi. (With no lift pump working, I reasoned.) Installed two new air brake valves that switched the cruise control off. These air-electric valves had been reported by Foretravel Forum as being a possible problem for cruise operation.
- 20 January, I ordered a new lift pump, $93. And a stud bolt kit, $22, for relaxed, single-worker installation of lift pump. A week later, I installed the new pump without a clunk. Operation now has continuous idle pressure of 20psi. Parked, no load, mid-range throttle has 23psi. Have I solved my fuel delivery trouble? (A snow packed, descending, twisty road from my house prevents a highway test—for now.) May need to adjust fuel-return-valve pressure for proper Cruise and Climb performance (temp and up-shifting). So, strap AC compressor out of way; leave wrenches for Tork-Tec adjustment on floor near Pax seat.

REVIEW/LEARNED:
1.   During installation of second lift pump, piston shaft to engine cam broken-off on previously installed lift pump. (Arm strength created a problem. Mis-directed thinking pushed this to a pointless parts pursuit....)
2.   Now, my motorhome has a renewed fuel delivery system from tank to HP. These new components irregularly kept my engine going without an operating lift pump. However, this type of operation did not supply excess fuel to the HP—to help cool the HP as excess fuel went through the HP to be returned to the tank. I hope two years of operation with this lack of excess fuel will not shorten the life of the HP.
3.   In-dash fuel pressure gauge allows constant monitoring of fuel delivery. From now on, diminished running fuel pressure should indicate fuel filter changes needed.
4.   If priming, or air removal is required, this should be accomplished using the tiny electric pump on the Primary Filter System. Ignition ON and activated with "Purge" button on control panel by poking a slim rod through louvers of engine door. And not the raised bed, heart-attack-inducing-bending-over-extended-left-arm action of repetitively pressing the lift pump plunger.

Re: Low Power From Engine

Reply #46 – February 01, 2018, 01:04:07 pm

Thanks for the write up Lewis. I will print this out and take it with me Saturday along with some wire and 50' of rope.

I did change the switches in the front left compartment and it will rev to 3000 rpm now but did not get a chance to road test it yet but I will find out Saturday.

Re: Low Power From Engine

Reply #47 – February 02, 2018, 12:27:57 am

Hello Lewis, thank you for useful post. Have you had any issue with cracked fuel lines?

I was told improper adjustment of fuel shutoff valve can not only create non start or running issues, but that it can also cause premature failure if set wrong.

Dylan....

Reply #48 – February 03, 2018, 04:15:11 am

Noticed your tag!

I remember in 1991 while attending a writer conference in Aspen, that I listened to a Russian do the closing speech and using many Um's and Ah's. He had been declared the American Poet Laureate that year. I appreciated that English was most likely his second or seventh language ... but shit, after a hundred of these interruptions, I had begun counting out loud, I got up and left. I wondered at the time, why wasn't Bob nominated as the Poet Laureate for US instead of a Russky? Well, finally, years later, Bob was. "... no success like failure... "

Re: Low Power From Engine

Reply #49 – February 03, 2018, 04:27:13 am

Missed something somewhere,no clue who Bob is!!!!!

Affiliate Notice