Fluid Sampling

Topic: Fluid Sampling (Read 1417 times) previous topic - next topic

Fluid Sampling

February 06, 2018, 04:43:10 pm

After reading on the forum about fluid sampling I decided to sample engine/generator oil & coolant and the trans fluid. For sum reason I was not real trusting on how reliable the info would be. When the reports came back for both gen and engine oil being high in titanium I became a believer. I use Kendal synthetic oil which has liquid titanium as an additive resulting in the high count.

Lots of good info on engine health.

Re: Fluid Sampling

Reply #1 – February 09, 2018, 12:01:28 am

Fluid sampling is kind of like having blood work done, regular intervals good, once and a while not so much. A good base line needs to be established.

Re: Fluid Sampling

Reply #2 – February 09, 2018, 09:21:42 am

Regular oil analysis In one of the most important tools in Predictive Maintenance. Many large firms which employ machinery, are getting away from preventive maintenance, and have gone to Predictive Maintenance because of the cost savings.
Predictive maintenance - Wikipedia

Re: Fluid Sampling

Reply #3 – February 09, 2018, 10:44:44 am

Quote from: Gary & Jeannie – February 06, 2018, 04:43:10 pm

Lots of good info on engine health.

Unless I'm reading it wrong you've got almost enough zinc in your oil to keep a high lift/flat tappet cam alive.
Where's it coming from?

I used to use Rotella for flat tappet motors but like everyone else they cut back on the zinc.

Re: Fluid Sampling

Reply #4 – February 10, 2018, 11:33:36 am

I contacted Tom Johnson At JG Lubricant Services regarding zinic dialkylothiophosphate (ZDDP) in the oil. Zinic provides anti-wear protection & minimizes lubricant breakdown and is the most commonly used additive in oil. Out of thousands of diesel oil sampling's the average amount of zinic is 1215 ppm and the high is 1700 ppm. Gasoline engine oil average is 900 ppm.

Lots of good info about engine oil on JG Lubricants website.

Re: Fluid Sampling

Reply #5 – February 10, 2018, 12:27:45 pm

I tested my Duramax with 9004 miles on a oil and filter change and everything came back good. The zinc number was 1176

Re: Fluid Sampling

Reply #6 – February 10, 2018, 04:39:46 pm

Right. I got 1274 ppm zinc from Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5w-40. I run it in my main engine and generator and my first engine sample is coming up in a few weeks - 20,000 miles into this change interval.

The generator (100hr recommended OCI) looked great at 280hrs. I will probably run this to 400hrs and sample again.

Re: Fluid Sampling

Reply #7 – February 10, 2018, 05:05:36 pm

I believe in it,when racing sports cars, saved an engine. Had got into first stages of spinning a bearing,disasembled, saved the engine.

Re: Fluid Sampling

Reply #8 – February 10, 2018, 05:49:08 pm

Due to this post, I just sent off my sample 2/9/2017 to Blackstone from June 2017 first oil change, after buying U295 May of 2017. I had forgot about it sitting on the shelf. Unknown oil type, age, miles, since changed, wish me luck. I'll update when I get results, expected in 3-4 weeks.

Previous owner only owned 2 years, prior and original owner I was unable to contact until just a couple months ago. Good news was I then found out that just four years ago he put on a new air filter (which I replaced 6/2017), 8 new airbags, installed new roof antennae and wiring, new CO/propane detector and valve, rebuilt turbo (no problem, just felt it was time), right before he traded for a 10 year newer Spartan chassis American Coach. All repairs done right here in Eugene, Oregon at Oregon Motorcoach Center, a very highly recommended Foretravel service center in the NW.

Now to wait for the $28 oil sample report.

Re: Fluid Sampling

Reply #9 – February 10, 2018, 06:01:26 pm

One big mistake I made buying this coach, was I ASSUMED the fluids were fresh. A good dickering point when looking to buy a coach, gonna cost me a few CBs very soon. My files show no sample was ever taken, though I'd think Brett had one done before he sold it to my PO.

Re: Fluid Sampling

Reply #10 – February 10, 2018, 07:46:58 pm

Quote from: mike leary – February 10, 2018, 06:01:26 pm

One big mistake I made buying this coach, was I ASSUMED the fluids were fresh. A good dickering point when looking to buy a coach, gonna cost me a few CBs very soon. My files show no sample was ever taken, though I'd think Brett had one done before he sold it to my PO.

Mike

what are the first three letters of ASSume..

Re: Fluid Sampling

Reply #11 – February 10, 2018, 08:42:33 pm

When I bought mine the main engine oil filter was unidentifiable due to rust pitting, but the oil analysis came back surprisingly good. It has probably been in the sump over 10 years, but very few miles.

Re: Fluid Sampling

Reply #12 – February 11, 2018, 02:26:34 pm

Being new to this, this will be my first oil sample. I ordered a blackstone sample kit and on top of their $28 sample charge they offer a TBN report also for $10. Is this something that will be worthwhile to me or is the regular sample enough. Since I don't know how to interpret the results I'm sure I'll have some questions when the results come back..... I don't have a lot of past info on my motor/coach...... I found the PO's info is it proper etiquette to try to contact him for info?

Re: Fluid Sampling

Reply #13 – February 11, 2018, 03:25:16 pm

I may have missed it, but, how often is a sample suggested?

Re: Fluid Sampling

Reply #14 – February 11, 2018, 03:43:45 pm

Quote from: mike leary – February 11, 2018, 03:25:16 pm

I may have missed it, but, how often is a sample suggested?

That's up to you, but in the shipping industry, it was every 250 or 500 operating hours , depending on the equipment.

Re: Fluid Sampling

Reply #15 – February 11, 2018, 03:53:07 pm

"The TBN of a used oil can aid the user in determining how much reserve additive the oil has left to neutralize acids." I use to change my oil every year. One year with little use, I went 2 years, had the TBN number and they recommended another six months. On my Monaco Signatures, still with use under 4,000 miles each year, I changed oil and filters every other year.

On my most resent oil analysis (sample date 6/28/2017, run 02/19/2018) of my U295 purchased May of 2017 I paid the extra $10 for the TBN number, and am awaiting analysis. This will start the baseline for me evaluating this engine.

Re: Fluid Sampling

Reply #16 – February 11, 2018, 04:47:46 pm

Just curious what did you use to get the oil out? I looked at a drill operated pump but you screwed a water hose onto it and o don't think that will fit down the dip stick tube

Re: Fluid Sampling

Reply #17 – February 11, 2018, 04:52:59 pm

I use one of these;
Brake Bleeder and Vacuum Pump Kit

Re: Fluid Sampling

Reply #18 – February 11, 2018, 05:36:52 pm

When you buy the analysis program, they will normally send you the sample bottles, mailers, and pump with tube that fits down your dipstick similiar to this one. http://www.dsi-ltd.com/Files/Admin/PFS---DSI-Oil-Sampling-Supplies-rev-C.pdf

Re: Fluid Sampling

Reply #19 – February 11, 2018, 06:45:39 pm

Mike, when the results were emailed to me I called and Tom went over the reports with me. Because of the condition of the oil he suggested in one year or approximately 250 engine hours oil should be sampled. Time frame varies upon findings in order to determine cause of problem(s) that may show up from sampling.

When I sampled the transmission oil I purchased the oil sample kit that also indicates how well the filter is performing (they have three different sample kit) for the engine oil I used the middle price sample kit. Each kit includes a sample bottle and plastic tube for drawing the oil. They sell a pump that the bottle screws onto.

Tom was an engineer for Allison and when he went over the report he commented the oil was in as good as shape as if the trans had just been placed in service. Also, he said trans with retarder and TranSynd oil do not require changing for 150,000 miles depending upon condition of oil. I believe he mentioned without retarder are good for 300,000 miles before oil change.

Re: Fluid Sampling

Reply #20 – February 11, 2018, 07:14:44 pm

I got the blackstone jar in the mail and all it included was a jar and return info

Re: Fluid Sampling

Reply #21 – February 11, 2018, 08:21:39 pm

Quote from: hdff – February 11, 2018, 07:14:44 pm

I got the blackstone jar in the mail and all it included was a jar and return info

I see Blackstone charges $35 for the vacuum pump. Some like the Cat SOS system supplies it free with the jars. You can always get a sample with an oil change, but that kind of defeats the purpose.

Re: Fluid Sampling

Reply #22 – February 19, 2018, 09:54:04 pm

I just today got my Blackstone analysis referred to in the above posts. I paid the $28 + $10 for the TBN number.

It came back "nice" as follows: "Universal averages for the Cummins C 8.3L engine are based on ~7,800 miles of oil use. Your
metals are all reading slightly higher than average, so we'd guess that the actual time on the oil was toward
the upper end of the 5,000-7,000 mile range that you had guessed, but regardless we don't see anything
here that really looks like a problem. No moisture, dirt, fuel, or other contaminants were detected, and the
TBN is strong at 6.7, so it looks like the oil had plenty of active additive left. Try running 8,000-9,000 miles
next oil, and check back to monitor. Nice!" I am feeling relieved, this Fortravel purchase was, as I'm sure your rv was for you, a major purchase for me. I now feel I can track the condition of this C8.3 by continuing the oil analysis every two years and that will be approx May of 2019 within the 8-9,000 mile interval.

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