CO/LP Detector

Topic: CO/LP Detector (Read 958 times) previous topic - next topic

CO/LP Detector

February 16, 2018, 10:30:23 pm

My coach has separate LP and CO detectors and both are about 10 years out of data and neither of them work so I need to replace them.

Has anyone replaced the CO detector (one my by the floor) with a Atwood Model:36681 LP/CO Detector and then just covered the LP detector on the cabinet to cover the hole?

Re: CO/LP Detector

Reply #1 – February 16, 2018, 10:50:02 pm

C0 is lighter than air so that detector should be mounted high, lpg mounted low because it's heavier than air. I have the same delima with the hole and will probably mount my LPG detector on a piece of Matt black plastic to cover larger hole. CO is on Velcro so I can move it from the front to the rear as required.

Re: CO/LP Detector

Reply #2 – February 16, 2018, 11:01:38 pm

I replaced each of them for the reasons Phred mentioned. No combination unit no extra hole.

Re: CO/LP Detector

Reply #3 – February 17, 2018, 12:47:01 am

Quote from: Old phart phred – February 16, 2018, 10:50:02 pm

C0 is lighter than air so that detector should be mounted high, lpg mounted low because it's heavier than air. I have the same delima with the hole and will probably mount my LPG detector on a piece of Matt black plastic to cover larger hole. CO is on Velcro so I can move it from the front to the rear as required.

Thanks Opp I was going off the instruction where it said to mount the combo unit low. I just couldn't figure why FT would mount it high.

Atwood does have a direct replacement for a flush mount LP (Item # AT36720) and a CO detector (Item # AT32701 and # AT32703) or that may come close with the back plate.

Re: CO/LP Detector

Reply #4 – February 17, 2018, 12:48:08 am

Quote from: Sven and Kristi – February 16, 2018, 11:01:38 pm

I replaced each of them for the reasons Phred mentioned. No combination unit no extra hole.

Thanks Sven I had to some more digging to find the CO detector that is a close match flush mount.

Re: CO/LP Detector

Reply #5 – February 17, 2018, 02:30:30 am

The previous owner had inoperative propane, probably from failed valve control solinoid, they are known to fail closed.. July 2013, he took the rv to Oregon Motor Coach for repair. They diagnosed and ordered a new series 70 (comes with detector and solenoid) all in one Safe-T-Alert Detector, CO/LP with Valve Control - in Brown. They enlarged the cutout mounting, fabricating a frame to mount it low in the bathroom, right adjoining to the kitchen area as per the instructions. They disconnected the CO detector up high by the refrigerator wall. This hole is the perfect size for me to mount my solar remote control.

In the video on the PPL web page they give the reason for the all in one unit. It is to save installation and parts cost. They believe it will protect you as long as you replace it every 5 years. I believe it does protect, as mine has gone off from pulling gen exhaust in thru a window or roof vent. With their forced 5 year warning it will be difficult for you to not replace it.

Mine has end of life signal (EOL) 5 years from when 12V was activated. I'm ordering a replacement and will see if it goes off on July 2018, 5 yrs from the date it was installed. The last two pictures show the valve control solinoid. This is the one in mine now from PPL.

Safe-T-Alert CO/LP Detector with Valve | 66-8926 | by PPL

Re: CO/LP Detector

Reply #6 – February 17, 2018, 10:46:04 am

Thanks Jack, all 3 of my detectors are dated either 96 or 97 so they are still the factory installed ones. I know the LP wont detect gas because I blew out the flame on a butane lighter and held it there for over 2 minutes and did not even get squeak out of it.

I used my Pipe to check the smoke alarm and after putting a battery in it to test it would not go off either so I am replacing all 3 detectors.

Re: CO/LP Detector

Reply #7 – February 17, 2018, 07:21:07 pm

Well it seems there is not much choice in these units for the recessed style.

The LP one is a Atwood/Dometic and the CO is a Safe-T-Alert and then for both of them I will have to make faceplates to cover part of the holes.

About the best place to order all three from the same place looks to be Deyers.

Re: CO/LP Detector

Reply #8 – February 17, 2018, 09:00:20 pm

I got the safe t alert for LPG, and wrongly assumed that it would control the valve, the model I got won't.

Re: CO/LP Detector

Reply #9 – February 17, 2018, 10:40:16 pm

CO tends to congregate within 18"to 48" above the floor thus why many folks in house fires die from CO and not the actual fire

Re: CO/LP Detector

Reply #10 – February 17, 2018, 11:01:11 pm

Quote from: Old phart phred – February 17, 2018, 09:00:20 pm

I got the safe t alert for LPG, and wrongly assumed that it would control the valve, the model I got won't.

Mine looks like it may have a solenoid just below the shutoff valve but I dont see any wires going to it?

Did it have that shut off valve from the factory in 97 I wonder?

Re: CO/LP Detector

Reply #11 – February 18, 2018, 12:04:13 am

Frankly I don't see the point of an lpg alarm/detection system that doesn't shut off the solenoid valve. Yes my oem unit has wires to the solenoid valve in series with the enable switch and the detector. It's my understanding that it's no longer required for some reason for the lpg detector to no longer close the valve at the tank on newer models. Don't know which way I will proceed.

Re: CO/LP Detector

Reply #12 – February 18, 2018, 12:06:53 am

Foretravel likely (corrected) installed CO detectors. We buy battery operated CO detectors with digital displays a Lowe's etc and hang them on the bedroom wall to better insure we will wake up if a neighbor pours gen exhaust into our bedroom while we sleep.
We bought a 12 volt surface mount propane detector for kitchen lower wall. All 12 volt detectors have a switch on the 12 volt power line that we use to reset the detectors.
Speaking of detectors, we only buy battery smoke detectors that have both ionization AND photoelectric sensors inside them, and have them in many places in our motorhome, ceilings, near 12- breaker front dash panel, DVRs etc.

Re: CO/LP Detector

Reply #13 – February 18, 2018, 12:29:33 am

Quote from: pressuresolutions – February 17, 2018, 10:40:16 pm

CO tends to congregate within 18"to 48" above the floor thus why many folks in house fires die from CO and not the actual fire

Interesting, the 18-48 rule would seem to encompass the normal breathing zone of seditary people, is there any additional evidence that you have seen on why it congregates at this level? NFPA has wussyed out on this issue and thrown it all back on the manufacturers for recommending mounting heights to avoid lawsuits appearantly. PPM's should be denser at higher elevations in a room I would think, but I have heard the same argument with nitrogen oxide from diesel motors

Re: CO/LP Detector

Reply #14 – February 18, 2018, 12:49:00 am

" Barry, Foretravel likely never installed CO detectors" Yes Barry, they, CO, were standard on your 1997 270 and my 1997 295. The propane shut off solenoids were not required sometime around approx 2006. The original solenoid cutoff valves were made by CCI, that company has since gone out of business, they were 3 wire, they can be replaced by the new Safe-T-Plus two wire kit, requires included new solenoid safety cutoff valve as old valve will not work with new detector.

Since my new to me U295 has the Safe-T-Plus series 70 kit, I could not be more pleased. No 12V voltage: no working propane detector, no turned on propane. I get in the rv, turn on the 12V and without doing anything else I have a working propane and CO detector and propane safety cutoff valve. We cannot protect against all, I just I feel a tad better knowing if I'm not in the rv, the alarm goes off, the propane is automatically shut off.

My 1992 Monaco Crown Royale Signature, to my surprise, did not even have a propane detector. For everyone's safety I too believe in having working propane, CO, photoelectric & ionization smoke alarms. As you can see from these various threads, it is important to have a basic understanding of how these work, how to test, and how to operate.

Re: CO/LP Detector

Reply #15 – February 18, 2018, 09:49:29 am

L.P. gas is Heavier than "Air. The technical information on CO is Here;

So how does CO compare with air? It is 3% lighter. So it distributes very easily through a house.

But when CO is produced, it immediately begins mixing, and therefore diluting, with the air around it. Therefore, it mixes with nitrogen, which doesn't burn, oxygen, which is burned creating the CO, H2O (humidity) and CO2 which are in the air. So the CO produced is not in pure form in the air. It is very diluted. And as CO is produced, it is warmer than the air around it.

So what is the most advantageous place to put a CO detector? CO moves with the air, so where the air is flowing it will go also. It is very unpredictable where the air, and therefore CO, will move at any given time. That is why the instructions with the unit you buy do not say to place it high or low on the wall.

Understanding all that, the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) suggests in 720, 2-1.1.2* 1998 -

"A carbon monoxide alarm or detector should be centrally located outside of each separated sleeping area in the immediate vicinity of the bedrooms. Where bedrooms are separated and the audibility of the alarm or detector to occupants within the bedroom area could be seriously impaired, more than one unit could be needed. Each alarm or detector should be located on the wall, ceiling, or other location as specified in the installation instructions that accompany the unit."

Re: CO/LP Detector

Reply #16 – February 18, 2018, 03:22:09 pm

Quote from: Old phart phred – February 18, 2018, 12:04:13 am

Yes my oem unit has wires to the solenoid valve in series with the enable switch and the detector.

Thanks, is your solenoid on the line coming out just under the shutoff valve or someplace else?

Re: CO/LP Detector

Reply #17 – February 18, 2018, 03:27:02 pm

Quote from: Barry & Cindy – February 18, 2018, 12:06:53 am

Foretravel likely never installed CO detectors.

Barry my 97 U-270 has a 12v one on the upper cabinet under to panel that show the power levels, it is dated 1996 and the hole was cut with a router as it has round corners. The LP detector is also 12v and it is dated 1997, the smoke detector is a 9v battery powered and it is dated 1997 also.

Re: CO/LP Detector

Reply #18 – February 18, 2018, 04:54:02 pm

My solenoid is mounted at the tank just downstream of the regulator.

Re: CO/LP Detector

Reply #19 – February 18, 2018, 05:46:53 pm

Quote from: Old phart phred – February 18, 2018, 04:54:02 pm

My solenoid is mounted at the tank just downstream of the regulator.

Thanks so my next trip out I will take a look on the line after the regulator.

If it has one I will replace it and get the correct detector to go with it.

Re: CO/LP Detector

Reply #20 – February 18, 2018, 05:53:50 pm

The 'old' propane detectors used 12 volts to 'pull up' the propane solenoid and around 4 volts over the same two wires, to keep the solenoid open without overheating the coil.

We found that our propane detector would false alarm, shut off solenoid and take a looooog time to reboot and re-open solenoid, something that can be an issue when cooking with gas. I made a two position switch to insert 12 & ~4 volts to manually open valve, but later removed valve.

We now have a surface-mount Safe T Alert propane detector on the wall near the floor. Again with a 12-volt power interrupt reset switch next to detector.

Jack & Steve, You guys jogged my memory and I now remember that our coach also came with CO detector mounted up on inverter panel. We removed it long ago to redesign that panel to hold shunt meters and solar controller panel. (orig post corrected) Thanks...

We have two CO detectors in the bedroom and another in front living space. With the police cruisers having CO leakage, we recently stuck a CO detector under Jeep's front seat. We like CO detectors with digital readout and 9v / AA battery powered.

Re: CO/LP Detector

Reply #21 – February 18, 2018, 06:04:51 pm

Thanks Barry, CO detectors in the bathroom and under the seat are good but not sure I would put LP there, might get a lot of false reading

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