Replacing Coach Batteries

Topic: Replacing Coach Batteries (Read 2888 times) previous topic - next topic

Replacing Coach Batteries

March 05, 2018, 07:41:07 pm

Anyone out there replaced your house batteries or have observed the installation of new house batteries in a 2003 U320 38xx w/tag or similar motorcoach? I did several searches on the forum without luck. Thus the question. My batteries are shot. Unfortunately the things are buried in a compartment in the back of the joey bed bay. I swear Foretravel designers/engineers installed the batteries and then built the rig around them. This setup requires AGMs or lithium. I'd say watered batteries would be impossible or at the very least terribly inconvenient. Does the joey bed have to be removed? Do installers have some sort of mini-crane gizmo to take out the old batteries and help insert the new batteries into the battery compartment? These 8D's weight ~ 160 lbs each and there are three of them. I'm not going to install the new batteries myself, but need info to pass to Redlands Truck & RV whose task it will be to install them. When I described the situation to the service manager he was not enthused to say the least. We bought the rig from MOT in March 2016. Should have asked them to change out the batteries at time of purchase, but being a newbie (our first motorhome) we didn't. Last summer when it appeared the batteries might be failing I took pictures of the battery serial numbers and contacted MK to break the date code. Turns out they were mfg in 2012. Expensive lesson.

Re: Replacing Coach Batteries

Reply #1 – March 05, 2018, 07:54:40 pm

Can't help you with your specific problem but if a "RV service place" has to ask you how to put a battery in when they can see the
old ones I would move on if possible.

Re: Replacing Coach Batteries

Reply #2 – March 05, 2018, 07:59:36 pm

If your installer cannot figure out out to remove and replace your batteries, think it is time for you to look for another installer. A young strong guy is required, or an old weak guy with some blocks, maybe a ramp, and a small hyd jack.
Think you need to stay with agm or gel. Lithium will probably require some special charger.

Re: Replacing Coach Batteries

Reply #3 – March 05, 2018, 08:00:16 pm

Unless it's an optical illusion your mk batteries look to have been overcharged. Buldged cases from internal pressurization.

Look at your charger settings. Probably set for flooded cells at 14.4 volts max.

Late model Mk gels max at 14.15 volts.

Also turn down the alternator to 13.6 volts max as a compromise versus overcharge everything in warm weather and long drives.,..

Mk gels latest units can have really extended service life's if treated carefully.

Re: Replacing Coach Batteries

Reply #4 – March 05, 2018, 09:12:10 pm

I'm fairly confident that Redlands Truck & RV can do the job. There will be a learning curve and at $165/hr I want that curve to be as short as possible. If other installers removed the joey bed tray, I could do that and save some time. Or if the joey bed tray wasn't removed, I could pass on that info. RT&RV Internet rating are pretty good and I personally have experience with them. Scoped out and fixed an air system leak last summer, just four months after I had service on the air system at FOT.

Re: Replacing Coach Batteries

Reply #5 – March 05, 2018, 09:33:13 pm

Quote from: WagonWheels – March 05, 2018, 09:12:10 pm

I'm fairly confident that Redlands Truck & RV can do the job. There will be a learning curve and at $165/hr I want that curve to be as short as possible. If other installers removed the joey bed tray, I could do that and save some time. Or if the joey bed tray wasn't removed, I could pass on that info. RT&RV Internet rating are pretty good and I personally have experience with them. Scoped out and fixed an air system leak last summer, just four months after I had service on the air system at FOT.

It will be easier to remove joey bed first, even easier if you remove the aft rail too. Not complicated, basically a brute strength job. A big pry bar helps to lift batteries up before sliding out. I, [meaning my neighbors 23 old football player son]. swapped them out in about an hour.

Re: Replacing Coach Batteries

Reply #6 – March 05, 2018, 09:54:33 pm

Go to O'Reilly's and get AGM 8DAD batteries and they will change them for you for free. Joey Bed needs removed.
If you're near Bonita Springs, Florida I will help.
On my droid........... over & out

Re: Replacing Coach Batteries

Reply #7 – March 05, 2018, 10:50:35 pm

On our 2002 U320 the batteries were in the same area. I replaced the 2 wet cells with three OReillys. Not too difficult - bunch of grunts and groans and a couple of hours. Take Joey bed out and ramp the batteries up to the basement floor. Then can be pushed into place.

You might take this opportunity to re-anchor the Joey bed with SS through-bolts: use 3"x3" or 4"x4" X .250 or .375 thick SS or Aluminum blank to dissipate the pressure. .250 by 4" SS bolt and nut. Use a bunch of sealant between the blank, the undercarriage skin and the through holes. I think I installed 6 for the Joey bed.

PS - If you don't have a TriMetric, install it now.

You might consider these: GPL-8DL - Lifeline Batteries - bit more expensive but might be worth a look.

Good luck.

Re: Replacing Coach Batteries

Reply #8 – March 05, 2018, 11:13:43 pm

David, I did mine myself with the help of a small hyd. Lift from harbor freight and a big, long pry bar. I removed the joey bed and frame. Bottom two come out first then the top one. Install in reverse order. It helps to clean all terminals/fittings before putting new batteries in. Got my Lifeline 8D AGMs from Batterystuff.com. Great service!
PM me if you want more details.

Re: Replacing Coach Batteries

Reply #9 – March 06, 2018, 12:09:46 am

You can get six L16 sized 6v batteries in the same footprint as two 8Ds. When you get rid of the upper shelf they are about 60 lbs more weight and have 860 amp hr capacity compared to 8Ds.

Re: Replacing Coach Batteries

Reply #10 – March 06, 2018, 07:23:58 am

Do not lower the charge on the alternator. You will lose one volt going thru the isolator and not keep your batteries fully charged.

Re: Replacing Coach Batteries

Reply #11 – March 06, 2018, 09:54:34 am

3 8D's are approx 660 - 750 depending on the battery (220 - 250 AH each x 3?)

Tim Fiedler

Sure Start Soft Start

TCER Direct generator-gas-prod 630 240-9139
Gen-Pro

Re: Replacing Coach Batteries

Reply #12 – March 06, 2018, 12:12:04 pm

My 13.6 voltage adjustment was measured at the batteries themselves. With an isolator you are correct as it's actual output would need to be whatever the particular setup needs to get 13.6 to the batteries. Disadvantage is one bank is higher than maybe needed.

With a auto connect combiner the alternator itself can be adjusted to output the same 13.6 volts and both banks receive the same volts.

All the new coaches are step up this way as far as I know. I can see why.

Especially in dry storage as the small solar we have trips the auto connect feature fine and charges both banks.

As soon as no charge is detected it auto disconnects the banks.

Re: Replacing Coach Batteries

Reply #13 – March 06, 2018, 01:10:19 pm

Thanks to all for the info and suggestions. Wish I had known about the L16's earlier. I just ordered 3 Lifeline GPL-8DA's (automotive post) (255A ea x 3 = 765A or 382A usable) from Empire Battery in San Bernardino. Total cost is $2100 cash that includes delivery. I prefer the batteries with blade connectors, but my wires have the auto post connectors. Not wanting to incur more expense I'm going with what's already on the coach. I really need a battery monitor that uses a shunt, but installing one with my current set up would be difficult. Of course I could spend a boatload of money and convert the coach to all electric. New refer, new cooktop, new inverter/charger, solar pkg. Then I could pull out the LPG tank providing a nice battery and elec compartment with easy access. Having fun spending my kids inheritance lol.

Re: Replacing Coach Batteries

Reply #14 – March 06, 2018, 01:24:58 pm

Quote from: Roger & Susan in Home2 – March 06, 2018, 12:09:46 am

You can get six L16 sized 6v batteries in the same footprint as two 8Ds. When you get rid of the upper shelf they are about 60 lbs more weight and have 860 amp hr capacity compared to 8Ds.

Roger.

They look good. Where have you seen the best price? Conventional or AGM?

Pierce

Re: Replacing Coach Batteries

Reply #15 – March 06, 2018, 02:05:23 pm

David the lifelines would be my choice other than the mk gels.

These do use the same max 14.2 voltage settings as the oem gels as far as I know because of those designs lower internal resistances

Also charge 20% faster. Used by aircraft and the us military

Re: Replacing Coach Batteries

Reply #16 – March 06, 2018, 02:14:28 pm

The L16's come flooded or AGM. The flooded ones get used in forklifts. US Battery, Trojan, Reliant all make them as well as Full River.

My Full River batteries came directly from the distributor in Minneapolis and were about $440 with a core and tax. I gave then three dead Yellowtops and they counted as the core for four Full River DC400-6 batteries. The distributor is the one that deals with warranty and these have a seven year warranty when used in a renewable energy installation. They said my batteries installed in a motorhome recharged by solar panels were a renewable energy installation. I made all of my own 3/0 and 4/0 cables.

Metroplex Battery in Dallas has them for under $400. Great if you can pick them us. Buying 4 or 6 might get a break on shipping and make it better.
Search Results – Metroplex Battery

Another option if you have vertical restrictions (like I do on the 2001 with a slide, dr side battery bay) is the DC-335. same footprint, shorter. Six will fit in a cleverly deigned rack on the floor where two 8Ds sit. 1005 amp hr capacity and room for bus bars, fuses, switches, shunts. When my 7 year old lifelines are about done this is likely what I will do. They are lighter weight then the L16s as well.

All measurements are in my coach. Measure yours carefully. FR suggested some space between the top edges of the battery cases. Their engineering folks said in my application (based on typical charge and discharge rates) the space between the batteries was not needed. There is some anyway. Lots of basement floor steel in my coach to support the battery rack. same on the Pass side where the big LP tank was.

Roger

Re: Replacing Coach Batteries

Reply #17 – March 06, 2018, 02:27:58 pm

I'm going to stick with "the gal that brought me to the dance": 2 Optima #78 coach, 2 Lifeline AGM house. The PO and the PO before him (Brett) used them and got years out of them. Ours mate with the "Truecharge 40" so I can keep a eye on both banks.
A plus is the coach has been weighed with that lash-up, so no tire pressure changes are needed should I have to replace them (gulp!).

Re: Replacing Coach Batteries

Reply #18 – March 06, 2018, 02:29:20 pm

Keep in mind with 6 L16's you should go with the 2v versions. This eliminates balancing and paralleling issues entirely and maximizes capacity.

GPL-L16T-2V - Lifeline Batteries

Re: Replacing Coach Batteries

Reply #19 – March 06, 2018, 02:37:59 pm

Quote from: WagonWheels – March 06, 2018, 01:10:19 pm

Thanks to all for the info and suggestions. Wish I had known about the L16's earlier. I just ordered 3 Lifeline GPL-8DA's (automotive post) (255A ea x 3 = 765A or 382A usable) from Empire Battery in San Bernardino. Total cost is $2100 cash that includes delivery. I prefer the batteries with blade connectors, but my wires have the auto post connectors. Not wanting to incur more expense I'm going with what's already on the coach. I really need a battery monitor that uses a shunt, but installing one with my current set up would be difficult. Of course I could spend a boatload of money and convert the coach to all electric. New refer, new cooktop, new inverter/charger, solar pkg. Then I could pull out the LPG tank providing a nice battery and elec compartment with easy access. Having fun spending my kids inheritance lol.

I also wanted to install a shunt type battery monitor, [victron or trimetic] but found lack of room and multiple ground points problematic. I compromised with a Smartgauge. Does not give a lot of information, but seems to be fairly accurate in determining SOC.
Smartgauge Battery Monitor | Balmar

Re: Replacing Coach Batteries

Reply #20 – March 06, 2018, 03:37:32 pm

Quote from: jcus link=msg=306011 date=1520303593 Not complicated, basically a brute strength job. [/quote

X2 If you've got a GV with the 8DL mounted foreward of the curbside front tire, a rolling type floor jack is the ticket.

Re: Replacing Coach Batteries

Reply #21 – March 06, 2018, 07:38:36 pm

In July, I bought 6 AGM - Lifeline -GPL- L16 batteries from "The Battery Guy" in East Dundee IL.
I paid $479.99 each with cores. As I remember it was +$35 each without cores. I gave him my 4 - 6v - T45 cores plus a few other cores I had sitting in the garage, good enough he said.
I paid cash so he paid the tax.
I paid $180 shipping from the Lifeline plant in CA. to Chicago.
Total for 6 - L-16 = $3049.94

May pick up 2 to 4 more.
I have 4 , 300 watt solar panels, perhaps 1 more to be added.

Re: Replacing Coach Batteries

Reply #22 – March 06, 2018, 08:22:52 pm

Quote from: RvTrvlr – March 06, 2018, 02:29:20 pm

Keep in mind with 6 L16's you should go with the 2v versions. This eliminates balancing and paralleling issues entirely and maximizes capacity.

Please explain why you are suggesting this.

6-2 volt batteries need to be wired in series to make 12 volts.
How is this better than three pairs of 2-6 volt batteries in series that make 12 volts per pair. Each pair connected to a common bus bar with equal length cables.

Re: Replacing Coach Batteries

Reply #23 – March 06, 2018, 09:38:04 pm

Quote from: Travelin' Man – March 05, 2018, 09:54:33 pm

Go to O'Reilly's and get AGM 8DAD batteries and they will change them for you for free. Joey Bed needs removed.
If you're near Bonita Springs, Florida I will help.
On my droid........... over & out

I did a comparison check --granted I'm no battery expert-- but when I compared the orally 8D to the lifeline there was very little difference in 25a,15a or 8a load rating and at over $200 cheaper-- I figure bu the time they are gone the lithium batteries will be what I go to Just my thought
Chris

Re: Replacing Coach Batteries

Reply #24 – March 08, 2018, 06:54:29 pm

Quote from: Roger & Susan in Home2 – March 06, 2018, 08:22:52 pm

Please explain why you are suggesting this.

6-2 volt batteries need to be wired in series to make 12 volts.
How is this better than three pairs of 2-6 volt batteries in series that make 12 volts per pair. Each pair connected to a common bus bar with equal length cables.

I'll start by saying for those who dont know, a typical 12v car battery, no matter what size, 8d or the small battery starting a motorcycle is made up of 6 individual cells that produce 2 volts each. The main difference is the size of each cell which gives you more amp hours. Every 12v battery is 6 cells in series.

By using 6x 2v batteries, you eliminate all the complexity of bus bars, equal length wiring and only have simple, short interconnects. You also eliminate any chance of the series-parallel arrangement resulting in unbalanced charging or discharge, which always happens despite your best efforts to make everything equal.

A series arrangement is preferable to a series-parallel setup. Of course this only applies to an installation of six new L16's. if you only have room for four, you need the 6v version. If you want any number other than 6,12,18... you need the 6v version. When I need new house batteries a string of 6x2v is my main choice, unless I go with Lithium. But that introduces a whole new realm of issues.

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