Residential fridge power consumption?

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Residential fridge power consumption?

March 08, 2018, 07:12:54 am

As we're searching for a 36' FT I see some have a residential fridge. I've had both and like the extra space and better cooling of the residential models. But we plan to do more dry camping.
It looks like the ones with res. fridges have a 3rd 8D house battery. So my question is how many more amp hours will a res. fridge use in a 24 hour period? Just looking for an average, nothing too specific.
And will the 3rd battery handle the amps or will it take 2 or all 3 for a full day/night?
I know we can control how much other usage such as lights, fans, tv, charging laptops/phones, etc. but the fridge gotta run.
I do plan to add solar panels and will need more if it has a res. fridge. And change the lights to led of course.
Has anyone changed the LP/elect fridge to a residential model?
Thanks,
Forest

Re: Residential fridge power consumption?

Reply #1 – March 08, 2018, 09:45:35 pm

Extensively covered on the forum. Try the search function in the upper right hand corner of your screen Kind of a Chevy vs Ford debate on the forum.

Re: Residential fridge power consumption?

Reply #2 – March 08, 2018, 10:23:08 pm

Some work has been done on this. Not very likely that 2 batteries will get you through the night. Depends on outside temps,, time of year, age of batteries, type of inverter, type of refrigerator. Most need 4 8Ds to get through the night, probably with some generator use. The fourth battery is frequently poorly installed.

Another Samsung installed

Residential fridge energy use (split from Yacht Fridge VS Residential Fridge)

Re: Residential fridge power consumption?

Reply #3 – March 08, 2018, 10:45:56 pm

In round numbers - Cliff notes version.

It largely depends on what res. refer. you wish to install and how much other power you use. To pick a number - try 125Ah per 24 hr. period. Roger E. did a great study on how much actual power his Samsung 30" French Door refer used.

We have 3 - 8a8d house batteries. 255 Ah per battery = 765Ah ttl. That leaves 382.5Ah for the refer and all of your other stuff including the refer. That is, if you don't deplete the total battery bank below a 50% SOC (State of Charge) level.

382.5 - 125 = 257Ah available. Important in your noodling is how much phantom power is being used to keep the coach operational. We have no problem dry camping but must run the gen set about 3 hours in the AM and 3 hours in the PM. (We have not tracked down our Phantom Power loss.)

As Tim said, lot's of commentary using our search function. Lot's of ways to skin that cat and lot's of considerations.

A self installed rew. refer. could be under 1 coach buck. If installed could be $4/5K.

Our plan is to install another battery bank that will net about 440Ah. We will then use our 3rd bank dedicated to the refer. and AV system.

The above comments apply to lead-acid batteries and not Lithium.

Re: Residential fridge power consumption?

Reply #4 – March 08, 2018, 10:52:40 pm

Thanks Roger. I read a few posts about your's and other's res. fridge installs but somehow missed your post above. Excellent info! I just skimmed it quickly but will peruse it in depth tomorrow. That's exactly the real world info I was looking for.
But I wish I hadn't sold my 1000 amphour LiFePO4 system to a friend when I sold the Newell. The old Amana in the Newell was a big sponge sucking up amps! BTW my friend is starting year 5 on the LiFePO4's and they are still balanced. I wish Balqon was still in business.
Thanks also Carol & Scott (not sure which one posted?) Great summary and info.

Re: Residential fridge power consumption?

Reply #5 – March 08, 2018, 10:59:28 pm

5 years ago we installed a household electric fridge.

We have two 8D batteries and our 2000 watt sinewave inverter/charger. No special battery or dedicated inverter.

We dry camp during the year, with 2 weeks in January at our Lemon Quartzsite Gathering. Every dry camping night, we watch TV etc and run our generator about 4 hours before heading to bed. Inverter is on 24/7, but at night everything on inverter outlets is turned off with power strips, except for refrigerator inverter outlet.

We turn gen auto start off during the night, and on most mornings house battery voltage is down to about 50% at 12.2 to 12.3 volts.

We never mind running our gen. We have also experimented with turning inverter & fridge off from about 10pm to 7am and found internal temps were acceptable but leaving inverter on was better.

Propane fridges have so many negative issues, you will find a way to always live with electric replacement.

The biggest problem with electric is the extra calories we can eat from having frozen ice cream at our fingers whenever we want.

Re: Residential fridge power consumption?

Reply #6 – March 08, 2018, 11:26:56 pm

We, like B&C could get through the night on our 3 8D batteries with a few hours of generator time with a full sized Samsung residential refrigerator. Our goal was to get through a winter night, dark at 4:30, light about 8:00 AM. 16 hours at 15 degrees, heat, normal activity, no generator. We have added battery capacity, up to over 1500 amp hrs now in two separate battery banks with 900 watts of solar. Two high efficiency inverters. Bigger alternator, smart isolators. We can go for a week or more now without hookups, without generator, normal use.

Everyone chooses their own path here. Lots of options.

Ice cream is a nice end result.

Re: Residential fridge power consumption?

Reply #7 – March 08, 2018, 11:33:23 pm

Our equipment and experience almost exactly mirrors Barry and Cindy's. We have 2 AGM8D coach batteries, a single large MS2812 inverter that is on 24/7, and a Samsung residential fridge that is never turned off. 95% of our lighting inside (and outside) the coach is LED. We have found that to get through the night comfortably we need to go to bed with about 90% charge in the batteries. This usually requires a couple hours of generator time in the evening while we eat dinner and watch TV. By morning wakeup we will be down to about 50% of capacity, and will run the generator again for a couple hours while we cook breakfast, etc. After that, we let the solar panels top off the batteries and carry the load during the day (unless we need the roof A/C on).

In short, when you are running a residential fridge, two AGM8D batteries (or their equivalent) will get you through the night but you won't have much if any reserve left in the morning. We have a decent sized solar array, but it does nothing to help with our overnight battery depletion. A third 8D battery would give us more flexibility in the mornings, but would not eliminate our need to run the generator, at least in the evening.

Re: Residential fridge power consumption?

Reply #8 – March 09, 2018, 09:09:11 am

Quote from: Roger & Susan in Home2 – March 08, 2018, 11:26:56 pm

We have added battery capacity, up to over 1500 amp hrs now in two separate battery banks with 900 watts of solar. Two high efficiency inverters. Bigger alternator, smart isolators. We can go for a week or more now without hookups, without generator, normal use.

Roger,

When you say "a week or more without hookups, without generator", do you mean a week parked stationary in one spot, or a week where you are on the road driving each day and parked at night? If you mean parked stationary, then I don't understand how your system can be so much more efficient than ours. Your battery capacity is almost double what we have, so it's easy to see how you can operate a lot longer on battery power before you need to recharge. However, your PV system is about the same size as ours. I have found that when we experiment with dry camping using only solar to recharge the batteries, our total system doesn't last long before we have to run the generator to stay above 50% drawdown.

It is fine to have a very large battery bank, but you must also have the means to fully recharge the bank back to nearly 100% every day.

I have found that with 2 AGM8D batteries and a (theoretical) 960 watts of solar, we simply don't have that capability. The first night of camping, after driving all day, say our batteries are at 100% at nightfall. Cook dinner (microwave), watch TV, surf the Forum on the computer, go to bed. Batteries are at about 80%. Next morning (cold night, so heaters ran) we get up, batteries at best are 50%, but probably below that. Can't use the microwave (not enough power), so cook B-fast on the gas burners. At some point, the sun gets up high enough that the solar panels start making more than our constant ever-present load, and the batteries begin to (slowly) recharge. In really good bright sunny optimum conditions, by dark the 2nd day we might be back to 80%, but more likely less than that due to clouds or partially shaded panels, etc.. Next morning, we are WAY below 50%, so must run the generator to avoid doing harm to batteries. And, goes without saying, running the roof air conditioners would never even be considered in this daily dry camping routine...

We both have the same residential fridge and LED lights. Your coach with dual inverters is likely more efficient than ours, but I still don't see how you can go a week with "only" 900 watts of solar and never dip below 50% of battery capacity. I guess I must be doing something very wrong...

Re: Residential fridge power consumption?

Reply #9 – March 09, 2018, 10:04:32 am

Our coach came with the 3 8D lifeline AGM's and no solar yet. As Chuck posted above the third battery only adds the ability to use the microwave and coffee maker in the morning before needing the generator. We only dry camp and I have a system of running the generator until the charging amps are less than 30 then shut off. Once in the later morning and again around 2 hours before curfew. I always have around 12.5 on a normal night and when in the 30's around 12.3. About every fourth day, during the day I let the batteries go to float.

Re: Residential fridge power consumption?

Reply #10 – March 09, 2018, 10:20:35 am

Have to agree on the recharging. Thought I could spend 4 days at Q with no generator. I have just shy of 1000 amp/hrs of new lifelines, 960 watts on the roof, all led, and a PROPANE refrigerator. I use a smaller inverter for tv, sat and sound system and only turn on big inverter for microwaving, coffee pot etc, and used aqua-hot for heating. I could not aim my panels like Chuck, and was parked n-s instead of e-w. First day, SOC back from 75 to 90, second day 70 to 88[sunny day], third day only got to 80 by end of day so had to run generator for a couple of hours.
Amp hours used were always more than solar amp hours produced. Wish I could fit some more panels on the roof.

Re: Residential fridge power consumption?

Reply #11 – March 09, 2018, 10:51:54 am

Quote from: Barry & Cindy – March 08, 2018, 10:59:28 pm

Propane fridges have so many negative issues, you will find a way to always live with electric replacement.

With all do respect,I disagree with this comment. I totally understand the benefits of a residential refer, and respect those that have them .But I love my side by side propane refer. If the cooling unit ever fails, I'll replace it with a Amish unit and keep going.

I With the size of the propane tank we have, it's pretty much automatic. When we are traveling, I leave the fridge in LP mode, so it's not switching back and forth. When on Shore, I switch it to auto, so I don't forget when we leave.Don't ask me why!

We have 3 8D's, and 700 watts solar, all led's. But wouldn't like the headache of running the gen, and worrying about amp loss.I run the gen for one hour in the morning for the wife's blow dryer, making coffee etc. That is it. Our gen has 800 hrs on it after 2 snow bird trips south. Had 780 last year when I bought the coach

We have two Directv systems in-motion and Traveler HD satellites with 2 Tivo's, runs 24/7 (traveler is down during travel). We record everything we watch. 300 watt inverter in overhead by TV. 100 watt inverter for bedroom TV at night.

This 12 week trip, 1/3rd dry camping, I have turned the big inverter on maybe 2 times to microwave a cup cake. That's it.

BTW, plenty of ice cream and ice in the refer.I run the ice maker 1st 2 days till it's full, then shut it off till we need ice again.

Cheers

Re: Residential fridge power consumption?

Reply #12 – March 09, 2018, 11:17:31 am

I thought I would miss the flexibility of propane but I don't. The Samsung 18cf double door came in though my side window with no problem. It hasn't been as big of a hit to my batteries as I feared it would be. What I also don't miss are much lower cubic footage, frequent defrosting, slow recovery, slow ice maker, generally higher fridge temps and worrying that it could start a fire at any time. It also looks really nice! By self installing & selling the still working Dometic, the cost was very reasonable. Residential with a dedicated inverter was 100% the right choice for us.

Yet another Samsung conversion

Re: Residential fridge power consumption?

Reply #13 – March 09, 2018, 11:18:52 am

Jim, We were in Q this year parked E/W, basically same setup as you, no Aqua hot. 850 watts of solar Outback 80 MPPT controller. Our batteries were down to about 70% and back full by 1:00 pm.

I have been lookin at smaller 10-11 CF residential refrigerators. Looks like they draw 6 amps or so so about 125 amp hours per day that's if it ran all day. My figures may be wrong in the real world but with approx 360 useable amp hours it should be no problem.

Re: Residential fridge power consumption?

Reply #14 – March 09, 2018, 11:23:10 am

Quote from: bbeane – March 09, 2018, 11:18:52 am

Jim, We were in Q this year parked E/W, basically same setup as you, no Aqua hot. 850 watts of solar Outback 80 MPPT controller. Our batteries were down to about 70% and back full by 1:00 pm.

I have been lookin at smaller 10-11 CF residential refrigerators. Looks like they draw 6 amps or so so about 125 amp hours per day that if it ran all day. My figures may be wrong in the real world but with approx 360 useable amp hours it should be no problem.

Hey Bruce...Comparing Yuma southern Solar to Northwest solar where I live is apples to peaches....But then again, your a southern boy!

Re: Residential fridge power consumption?

Reply #15 – March 09, 2018, 11:24:20 am

Chuck,

Yup, a week in one spot, no engine, no generator. Just solar. Mild summer days, no AC demand, very little heat if any.

Our experience is still somewhat limited sitting for a while just on solar but we have done it a number of times for 5-8 days. If we are really being conservative the big inverter is off and the smaller very efficient inverter runs the refrigerator and the front end electronics and a few outlets for charging mobile devices. We do not use the microwave or any other 120v appliances in this mode. We have a teapot for making coffee. We run the AH on diesel for one cycle or two during the day. Plenty of hot water. If it is cold we might leave it on over night with the thermostats set low or not at all.

A minute on the microwave is about 2 amp hrs out of the battery.

Everything in the front end is off unless we are using it. Feel how hot your DTV rcvr gets just sitting there. That is power coming from somewhere. We are 100% streaming so far this this trip. Couple hundred GB per month.

We have monitored total power useage and it varies between 2400 and 2800 watts per day. On a mostly sunny day in the summer with some shade from trees, pretty normal conditions, our solar input is right in that range. On bright sunny days with no clouds we are seeing upper 4 KW even over 5KW. The 2.4 - 2.8 KW is in line with others that have a residential refrigerator that I have talked to. Without much effort it is pretty easy to use more than that.

We get to float every day. Almost never to much lower than 70% SOC. All that said in the middle of winter with lower sun angles and lots more cloudy days we are adding more like 1.5-1.9 KW per day from solar. Today we are plugged in and the big inverter charger is doing almost nothing and the smaller smart charger averages about 6 amps into the start batteries and the second set of house batteries (830 amp hrs) it is 9:30 AM and we are at float on all batteries. The bigger Victron charger is not on. 100% SOC on all batteries. It is partly cloudy right now and 120w are going into the batteries from solar. I figure solar is just reducing land line loads.

I will do a day or two unplugged here and let you know what it does.

Re: Residential fridge power consumption?

Reply #16 – March 09, 2018, 11:29:23 am

We have 500 watts of solar 4 6volt lead acid and ran the Q as Bruce did with the same results only ran the Genny when we had clouds and little rain, we installed a residential 10 cubic foot refrigerator this fall and are very pleased with it.

As a side note I did have the APR system on our Norcold fridge and they are worth the money.

shut the system down when it failed.

Re: Residential fridge power consumption?

Reply #17 – March 09, 2018, 11:29:50 am

Quote from: gracerace – March 09, 2018, 10:51:54 am

With all do respect,I disagree with this comment. I totally understand the benefits of a residential refer, and respect those that have them .But I love my side by side propane refer. If the cooling unit ever fails, I'll replace it with a Amish unit and keep going.

I am going out on a limb here, but we had to blow out a windshield to change out a side by side, so that needs to added to the cost (1K min.). They rarely come out without breaking.A cooling unit can be replaced on the living room floor. Trust me, I have done them. A single wide may go out a side window hole if removed.

With the size of the propane tank we have, it's pretty much automatic. When we are traveling, I leave the fridge in LP mode, so it's not switching back and forth. When on Shore, I switch it to auto, so I don't forget when we leave.Don't ask me why!

We have 3 8D's, and 700 watts solar, all led's. But wouldn't like the headache of running the gen, and worrying about amp loss.I run the gen for one hour in the morning for the wife's blow dryer, making coffee etc. That is it. Our gen has 800 hrs on it after 2 snow bird trips south. Had 780 last year when I bought the coach

We have two Directv systems in-motion and Traveler HD satellites with 2 Tivo's, runs 24/7 (traveler is down during travel). We record everything we watch. 300 watt inverter in overhead by TV. 100 watt inverter for bedroom TV at night.

This 12 week trip, 1/3rd dry camping, I have turned the big inverter on maybe 2 times to microwave a cup cake. That's it.

BTW, plenty of ice cream and ice in the refer.I run the ice maker 1st 2 days till it's full, then shut it off till we need ice again.

Cheers

Just note on propane units, appears PO of my coach replaced cooling unit on original dometic side by side. No paperwork on replacement, but can see "man. date 2016" on the unit. Noticed control board is wired to temp sensor in chimney to shut down gas on overheat condition, [same as arp add on unit] It has an automatic ice maker and even in summer will maintain freezer temps around 10 f. If, [and I don't] I wanted to replace it with electric only unit, it would definitely be a remove window, coach buck job. But I like redundancy, so if gas goes out, I have electric, and vice-versa.

Re: Residential fridge power consumption?

Reply #18 – March 09, 2018, 11:34:43 am

Quote from: bbeane – March 09, 2018, 11:18:52 am

Jim, We were in Q this year parked E/W, basically same setup as you, no Aqua hot. 850 watts of solar Outback 80 MPPT controller. Our batteries were down to about 70% and back full by 1:00 pm.

I have been lookin at smaller 10-11 CF residential refrigerators. Looks like they draw 6 amps or so so about 125 amp hours per day that if it ran all day. My figures may be wrong in the real world but with approx 360 useable amp hours it should be no problem.

Yes, but as you pointed out to me at Q, I should have parked E/W , not N/S, think that was part of my problem.

Re: Residential fridge power consumption?

Reply #19 – March 09, 2018, 11:41:50 am

Quote from: jcus – March 09, 2018, 11:29:50 am

Just note on propane units, appears PO of my coach replaced cooling unit on original dometic side by side. No paperwork on replacement, but can see "man. date 2016" on the unit. Noticed control board is wired to temp sensor in chimney to shut down gas on overheat condition, [same as arp add on unit] It has an automatic ice maker and even in summer will maintain freezer temps around 10 f. If, [and I don't] I wanted to replace it with electric only unit, it would definitely be a remove window, coach buck job. But I like redundancy, so if gas goes out, I have electric, and vice-versa.

My post was not to discount those that love there home refer, just to state the LP models aren't all bad.
Just helping those that are deciding what to do.
Cheers

Re: Residential fridge power consumption?

Reply #20 – March 09, 2018, 11:44:13 am

That temp sensor in the chimney is not the same as an ARP unit. It only shuts the unit down in case of fire. Mac the fire guy told me this.

Re: Residential fridge power consumption?

Reply #21 – March 09, 2018, 11:45:16 am

Gracerace
I agree, don't want all the hassles of big battery banks to support a residential fridge and generator run time to recharge. Maybe if we traveled from pedestal to pedestal? We are all propane and prefer it that way. Have used propane appliances for the last 25 years. My opinion is that engine fires are a bigger concern and more likely to happen than a properly maintained RV fridge. We dry camp wherever we stay (with few exceptions) and leave the fridge on propane from leaving home until returning.

Re: Residential fridge power consumption?

Reply #22 – March 09, 2018, 11:46:09 am

Quote from: bbeane – March 09, 2018, 11:18:52 am

I have been lookin at smaller 10-11 CF residential refrigerators. Looks like they draw 6 amps or so so about 125 amp hours per day that if it ran all day. My figures may be wrong in the real world but with approx 360 useable amp hours it should be no problem.

Smaller refrigerators might fit better but they don't necessarily use that much less energy. Our 19 cu ft Samsung came in through the pass side window. The Dometic went out the same way. It uses about 135 watts when running and just a few while idling. About 120 amphrs per day. About 1/2 of our normal consumption.

Re: Residential fridge power consumption?

Reply #23 – March 09, 2018, 11:49:55 am

This thread is about residential refrigerator power consumption. This is not a debate about propane vs electric. Plusses and minuses each way. Choose your own path. Someone else gets to choose theirs.

Re: Residential fridge power consumption?

Reply #24 – March 09, 2018, 12:03:50 pm

Quote from: Tom Lang – March 09, 2018, 11:44:13 am

That temp sensor in the chimney is not the same as an ARP unit. It only shuts the unit down in case of fire. Mac the fire guy told me this.

Think Mac is trying to sell you a fire extinguisher, the sensor on my unit is a temp, not a flame sensor, and detects high temp on boiler and will shut off gas if it exceeds a set temp, just like the arp.

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