Replace ATS100 110v? Lost all AC power. Replace/Fix? automatic power switch

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Replace ATS100 110v? Lost all AC power. Replace/Fix? automatic power switch

March 22, 2018, 11:35:20 pm

Plugged into Portland rv park overnight. Next morning heard loud pulsating noise when turning on microwave from one or both Magnatec ATS 100. AC meter swung wildly. Shut off power post quickly. Now no AC in rv, including no AC from generator.

Question is this. What and how to test? If I need to replace ATS will it most likely be the one on top, #1, or the one on the bottom, #2 or both? What brand should I use? Which mfg has dc or ac solenoids? Any experience changing out?

Re: Replace ATS100 110v? Lost all AC power. Replace/Fix? automatic power switch

Reply #1 – March 23, 2018, 12:10:48 am

No Idea and I can not help but as soon as someone responds that does know WE will learn together.. what I wanted to say is.. you have been busy recently..

Re: Replace ATS100 110v? Lost all AC power. Replace/Fix? automatic power switch

Reply #2 – March 23, 2018, 01:36:04 am

I changed the one on mine with a cheapy CW because I was in a hurry and they had it in stock. The one with the main umbilical cord is the one that supplies power from the generator and the shore. The other one supplies from the invertor. As far as top or bottom I would have to go look at the coach tomorrow.

Re: Replace ATS100 110v? Lost all AC power. Replace/Fix? automatic power switch

Reply #3 – March 23, 2018, 03:07:07 am

This is the one I used, has DC coils and bolt right in

Re: Replace ATS100 110v? Lost all AC power. Replace/Fix? automatic power switch

Reply #4 – March 23, 2018, 08:36:18 am

Quote from: Jack Lewis – March 22, 2018, 11:35:20 pm

If I need to replace ATS will it most likely be the one on top, #1, or the one on the bottom, #2 or both?

Photos below of the "electrical center" at the foot of our bed. Your coach may be arranged different. To identify the main shore/generator transfer switch, look for the one with 2 large stiff wire bundles coming in, and one going out (to the main AC circuit breaker panel). See yellow arrows in photo. On our coach, it is a Model PD52. The other (inverter) transfer switch only has lighter gauge white romex wires in and out.

Or, take the lid off both boxes - the one that failed will smell bad, and may look obviously burned or smokey.

Re: Replace ATS100 110v? Lost all AC power. Replace/Fix? automatic power switch

Reply #5 – March 23, 2018, 10:23:46 am

On my '99 it is the bottom one that is the one that is on Chuck's left photo and the one I changed out when all power failed

Re: Replace ATS100 110v? Lost all AC power. Replace/Fix? automatic power switch

Reply #6 – March 23, 2018, 10:54:11 am

Willy, Chuck, and craneman, thank you, that is exactly what I was looking for. Since all ac is out, the clacking sound coming from the ATS when it failed, the fact it is the original ATS 100 and 20+ years old, I will replace the one you pointed out with the two large bundles going in and one large bundle coming out.

Re: Replace ATS100 110v? Lost all AC power. Replace/Fix? automatic power switch

Reply #7 – March 23, 2018, 11:17:11 am

PD52 at Amazon is $153. Prime delivery.

Amazon.com: Progressive Dynamics (PD52V) 50 Amp Automatic Transfer Relay...

You can replace the relays but I would replace the whole box and if there is a salvagable relay in the transfer switch you remove, take it out and save it for a spare. I would save the box too but that's why I have s shop full of stuff.

Be sure inverter is off and all external power is off. Double check with a meter before sticking you fingers in there.

Roger

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Re: Replace ATS100 110v? Lost all AC power. Replace/Fix? automatic power switch

Reply #8 – March 23, 2018, 11:30:59 am

The LYGT LPT50Brd has dc relays, no hum. Replaced both of ours with these. Don't know where your transfer switches are located but be sure the replacement actually fits. If under the bed there isn't a lot of clearance. Also look to be sure the existing cables will reach the new switch positions. Some switches have all cables enter one side, some have output on one side, inputs on the other.

Re: Replace ATS100 110v? Lost all AC power. Replace/Fix? automatic power switch

Reply #9 – March 23, 2018, 12:20:53 pm

Jack,
You can have my old one, there was nothing wrong with it. I just wanted an built in surge protection for both shore line and generator.

Re: Replace ATS100 110v? Lost all AC power. Replace/Fix? automatic power switch

Reply #10 – March 23, 2018, 12:27:40 pm

Quote from: Willy White – March 23, 2018, 03:07:07 am

This is the one I used, has DC coils and bolt right in

For replacement, recommend the one Willy used (or similar). DC coils are supposed to eliminate (or reduce) the irritating HUMMMMMing noise that drives some owners crazy at night. We were VERY happy to get rid of our original PD52.

Re: Replace ATS100 110v? Lost all AC power. Replace/Fix? automatic power switch

Reply #11 – March 23, 2018, 03:34:34 pm

Referring to Willy's surge protection comment:

I would say that the 'surge' protection from a generator anomaly is zero. Surge protection is for very short spikes in public power systems, like hundreds of volts over normal.

If we want to protect all of our expensive devices, we need over & under voltage protection from shore & generator issues. The most common easy to occur, damaging campground power problem, is receiving 240 volts when we expect 120 volts, and only an over volt protection device can protect the coach. Surge protectors will not protect from this problem.

Relating to new ATS, this is on Progressive Dynamics web page:

The new PD52DCS is provided with a DC coil that eliminates the annoying buzzing during operation, while the PD52S unit utilizes a standard AC coil.

I was taken aback by the "a DC coil". The box has two relays with two coils, so are both coils DC or is one DC and the other AC?

BTW, it is 'common' to build with one AC and one DC coil, which is how our original ATS 100 is built.

And why don't all 'better' ATS use quiet DC coils

Also on Amazon one person reported the AC coil was a 50 cycle design. Don't know what is in their devices, but a 50 cycle will hum even more.

Re: Replace ATS100 110v? Lost all AC power. Replace/Fix? automatic power switch

Reply #12 – March 23, 2018, 03:36:57 pm

Quote from: Barry & Cindy – March 23, 2018, 03:34:34 pm

Referring to Willy's surge protection comment:

I would say that the 'surge' protection from a generator anomaly is zero. Surge protection is for very short spikes in public power systems, like hundreds of volts over normal, triggered by distant switching, lightning, etc.

If we want to protect all of our expensive devices, we need over & under voltage protection from shore & generator issues. The most common easy to occur, damaging campground power problem, is receiving 240 volts when we expect 120 volts, and only an over volt protection device can protect the coach. Surge protectors will not protect from this problem.

Relating to new ATS, this is on Progressive Dynamics web page:
"The new PD52DCS is provided with a DC coil that eliminates the annoying buzzing during operation, while the PD52S unit utilizes a standard AC coil."

I was taken aback by the "a DC coil". The box has two relays with two coils, so are both coils DC or is one DC and the other AC?

BTW, it is 'common' to build with one AC and one DC coil, which is how our original ATS 100 is built.

It looks like most ProgressiveDynamics ATS boxes use AC coils, and why don't all 'better' ATS use quiet DC coils?

Also on Amazon one person reported the AC coil was a 50 cycle design. Don't know what is in their devices, but a 50 cycle will hum even more.

Re: Replace ATS100 110v? Lost all AC power. Replace/Fix? automatic power switch

Reply #13 – March 23, 2018, 04:37:27 pm

My comment "Surge Protection" was just an catch all for all protection. I believe I loss an roof air compressor at an northern Az campground due to low voltage and my external line protection fail to cut out even though it was rated to do so. There was several times I notice voltages below an 100 volts on the coach and shore power never disconnected.
This unit was recomended by a company in So Cal who repairs inverters and other components and with all the new TV's and electronics upgrades I've done was the deciding decision.
Knock on wood, so far this unit seems to work fine and does cut out on low voltage base on couple we experience we had.
As a side note when I install the unit it would not pull in for generator, tested for voltage and realize I only had one pole, check the gen and notice one breaker was off. I wonder how long that been off?
Steve

Re: Replace ATS100 110v? Lost all AC power. Replace/Fix? automatic power switch

Reply #14 – March 23, 2018, 08:26:27 pm

Willy, Thanks, I did not realize these are voltage sensitive. What ATS model number / brand do you have? Most do not do voltage, while many do surge with MOVs.

Re: Replace ATS100 110v? Lost all AC power. Replace/Fix? automatic power switch

Reply #15 – March 23, 2018, 10:12:54 pm

It is an progressive dynamic PD52DCS, both coils are DC. Nice feature is that if you loose the circuit board for some reason it about $100 for replacement, much cheaper that an an high end external surge protection. Also I call their tech support for the voltage cutout and was inform about 104v for low and 134v for high.
I'm not trying to push this product but I like the fact it fit in the same place as the old ATS and replace an non functioning surge protection at the same time with no issue so far.
Steve

Re: Replace ATS100 110v? Lost all AC power. Replace/Fix? automatic power switch

Reply #16 – March 23, 2018, 10:43:12 pm

I just replaced mine the other day. It was a super simple install. Just four screws mounting it to the floor. And the lugs that hold the wires in. The hardest part was getting the super still wires into the holes at the same time.

Re: Replace ATS100 110v? Lost all AC power. Replace/Fix? automatic power switch

Reply #17 – March 25, 2018, 01:38:49 pm

Thank you all for the quick and helpful advice. I replaced mine with the same unit Barry has, a Progressive Dynamics PD52V their latest in the 5000 series. 50 Amp Automatic Transfer Switch - Progressive Dynamics 52V - Generator... It was available right away at Camping World, and I had read it was recommended by both Tiffin and Newmar to other owners. 2nd reason was there were no dc relay units available in stock locally and my impatience overcame me. I also rationalized later I could move this one to replace the other ATS that is used to power the inverter/charger.

A possibly smarter choice might have been the Amazon.com: Esco LPT50BRD Generator 50A 120/240V Relay Base Automatic... or the
Amazon.com: Technology Research (41260) Surge Guard 50 Amp Automatic...
Amazon.com: Progressive Dynamics PD52DCSV Automatic Power Transfer Relay...

All the above alternative units have dc coils and will be quieter. I say possibly a good choice, because the PD52V is quiet enough for me now, and the second reason is who knows how long anything new will last. The PD52V appears to be very well built using heave duty components. That being said, no unit will survive continual switching while under a big draw such as air conditioning. I will continue my habit of protecting this one by always plugging in with power post off, generator and ac off, convection off, etc.

I hope others having experience with any of the above four units continue to post their experience as I will eventually (not this year) switch the #1 ATS to the #2 position and replace it with a dc relay unit (the PD52V uses ac relays). Or...another choice may be to bypass the #2 automatic transfer switch as my http://www.xantrex.com/power-products/inverter-chargers/freedom-sw-12v_newgen.aspx has the automatic power transfer built in.

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Re: Replace ATS100 110v? Lost all AC power. Replace/Fix? automatic power switch

Reply #18 – March 25, 2018, 02:34:52 pm

Esco LPT50BRD Light transfer switch wiring can be difficult as all the big stiff cables enter differently on one side.

And the relays are a bit weird in that they don't use 3-pole contactors like most transfer switches. LPR50BRD wiring uses 2-pole 3-way relays, with normally closed / normally open contacts which mean something is always connected to coach load panel.

Never liked this box.

Re: Replace ATS100 110v? Lost all AC power. Replace/Fix? automatic power switch

Reply #19 – March 25, 2018, 02:54:56 pm

When you change out your new inverter whether you use the built in transfer switch or not you maust amke sure that the 120v lire fron the inverter back to the exosting transfer switch or to the panel are sufficiently sized for the current from the new inverter. Many of these replacements have significantly higher capacity that what was originally installed. It is good to double check and be safe.

✅ It is a good practice to shut off high load devices (AC, Microwave, electric water heaters, chargers etc) when switching between landline, generator or inverter to minimized the impact on the relay contact points.

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