Victron Invertor/BMV owners - compare software settings

Topic: Victron Invertor/BMV owners - compare software settings (Read 2013 times) previous topic - next topic

Victron Invertor/BMV owners - compare software settings

March 29, 2018, 01:21:57 pm

I'd like to compare software settings with other Victron owners/users. I think my invertor goes from absorption to float sooner than it should. I'm communicating with Victron USA sales on this as well.

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My BMV battery settings (via Victron Connect app) are:

Battery Capacity 765Ah (3 new Lifeline 8Ds).
Charged voltage setting 14.1 amp
tail current 4.00% (was 2.00%, Victron suggested bumping it to 4)
charged detection time 3m
Puekert 1.25
efficiency factor 97%
current threshold .10A
time to go averaging 3m

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Shunt is 500A, volt 50mV
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Invertor software selection is set to to Gel/AGM, Victron energy (via VE Configure software)
adaptive battery safe, storage mode checkmarked
14.4 absorb, 13.80 float. Repeat absorb time 1 hour, repeat absorb interval 7 days, max absorb time 8 hrs (all default settings for battery type)

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Other settings on the CGX:
Synch VE Bus SOC with batteries is "on"
use solar charge current to improve VE bus SOC "on"
solar charger volt control "off"
Has DC system "on"
DVCC "off"
under networked operation, BMS controlled "off" and networked "no"

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My equipment, all installed by AM Solar in Oregon November 2017:

Victron MultiPlus 12/3000/120-50 120V VE.Bus Inverter/Charger
MONITOR-VTCC Victron Color Control GX Monitor
Victron CCGX WiFi module simple (Nano USB)
100AVictron BlueSolar Smart MPPT 150/100-Tr (100A)
V-SVictron Battery Monitor BMV-712 Smart
Victron Temperature sensor for BMV
8D AGM Lifelines
About 8' - 9' cable run batteries to invertor, one 3/0 and one 4/0 cabling (had AM Solar add the 4/O)

For anyone else checking, do you have different settings?

EDIT: After testing I determined the Multi invertor/charger was operating correctly, but the battery monitor settings needed to be changed. ( I also changed charge profile on the Multi itself).

Re: Victron Invertor/BMV owners - compare software settings

Reply #1 – March 29, 2018, 08:02:43 pm

Lifeline AGMs at 70 degrees F float at 13.4 volts per their chart.

Re: Victron Invertor/BMV owners - compare software settings

Reply #2 – March 30, 2018, 12:11:30 am

Hi Bob,

The Victron has a few more voltage settings as the default for AGM:

Absorb 14.4, float 13.8, and "storage" 13.2. Plus temp compensation wire to batteries.

EDIT: From storage mode of 13.2 volts, on a regular basis (I forget the specific interval), it reenters either float 13.8 volts or absorption 14.4 volts to "top up".

Re: Victron Invertor/BMV owners - compare software settings

Reply #3 – March 30, 2018, 01:28:45 pm

See the lifeline tech page. 13.4 float. My east penn gels are 13.6 at 78 degrees.

I noticed the published Victron AGM programs did not seem to have a lifeline specific setting?

My solar and alternator are both set for 13.6. Currently no temp compensation. Working on that.

Magnum is 13.6 at 78 degrees on my gels

Re: Victron Invertor/BMV owners - compare software settings

Reply #4 – March 31, 2018, 01:19:37 am

The Multi problem of entering float too early is solved. It was a wrong setting on the config files on the actual charging device. (and the battery monitor settings were giving me false State Of Charge percentages).

Using VE Power setup to "get settings" , I found the battery charge points and selection in the Multi invertor/charger were not what I thought they were.

The configuration file I was reading was never sent into the Multi, so both absorption and float voltages were actually lower than I thought. Now (via VE Power setup, then via VE Configure software)
Multi is definitely set to Gel/AGM, Victron energy adaptive battery safe, storage mode check marked
14.4 absorb, 13.80 float. Repeat absorb time 1 hour, repeat absorb interval 7 days, max absorb time 8 hrs (all default settings for battery type)
"Storage" mode of 13.2 volts On a regular basis (I forget the specific interval), it reenters either float 13.8 volts or absorption 14.4 volts to "top up".

I also learned that the Multi does it's own thing on charging, independent of the BMV (battery monitor Victron). . BMV just approximates how the batteries are doing as a gauge for us to view and has zero influence over Multi nor solar charging. (I did not realize that before).

Next problem is to get the BMV to more closely approximate the actual charging by the multi. The BMV said 100% charged 3 HOURS before the Multi moved from absorption to float. I am 90% sure tail current setting was the problem. I had it set to 4% during testing today (charging from 80 percent battery charge to 100 percent)

Right after absorption to float change, float is currently showing 13.7 volts. Battery temps 81 degrees.
EDIT: one hour later it is now in storage mode at 13.13 volts 81 degrees at batteries.

4 percent tail current of 750 Ah batteries is 30 amps. ** The Multi went from absorbtion to float right around 8 amps pushed into the batteries.
2% Tail would be 15 amps
1.5% tail would be 11.25 amps
and 1% tail would be 7.5 amps.

*** I will try 1.5% tail current for now on the BMV. (11.25 amp)

I also need to verify what the BMV settings for the following "should" be compared to now:

****** Charged voltage setting 14.1 amp (need to verify correct) *****
tail current (now 1.5%)
Charged detection time 5 minutes (was 3m)
Puekert 1.25
charge efficiency factor 95% (was 97% previously)
current threshold .10A
time to go averaging 3m

Main one I would like to confirm now is the Charged voltage setting 14.1 volts (AM Solar set that value)

Re: Victron Invertor/BMV owners - compare software settings

Reply #5 – March 31, 2018, 01:41:51 am

One hour after the system went into float it has moved to storage with 13.13 volts at batteries.

Re: Victron Invertor/BMV owners - compare software settings

Reply #6 – March 31, 2018, 01:04:34 pm

I believe in this discussion the term float is causing some differences. In some three stage battery chargers the stages are Bulk, Absorption, and Float. Evidently, Victron appears to be using the terminology Absorption, Float and Storage for the three stages. I have no experience with Victron so I could be completely off base with this. If so, I apologize.

Re: Victron Invertor/BMV owners - compare software settings

Reply #7 – March 31, 2018, 01:55:08 pm

The Victron charging profiles and terminology is a bit different than I am used to.

They use Adaptive 4-stage charge characteristics: bulk - absorption - float - storage.
They have added "adaptive charging", "battery safe", and "storage" mode to what most of us are used to.

Victron seems to "sort of" merge the bulk and absorption voltage.

Bulk: bulk charge (= the charger has reached its maximum current) So this seems to indicate bulk is from time charging begins, and ends when max allowed voltage is present in the batteries. (ramping up voltage in batteries to max).

Absorption: after each period of bulk charge (= the charger has reached its maximum current) an absorption period of 5 times the bulk charge period will follow (**with maximum time limits set as well**)

Even with the below explanations it's still a bit confusing.

Adaptive charging explanation: https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Adaptive_charging_how_it_works.pdf

And this (below the battery info - scroll down): https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-GEL-and-AGM-Batteries-EN.pdf

Quote from: ltg – March 31, 2018, 01:04:34 pm

I believe in this discussion the term float is causing some differences. In some three stage battery chargers the stages are Bulk, Absorption, and Float. Evidently, Victron appears to be using the terminology Absorption, Float and Storage for the three stages. I have no experience with Victron so I could be completely off base with this. If so, I apologize.

Re: Victron Invertor/BMV owners - compare software settings

Reply #8 – March 31, 2018, 02:40:18 pm

This will be more detail than most will want, but demonstrates how bulk and absorption are "sort of" merged. Bulk is when the adaptive charger is getting batteries from start point to max charging voltage (ramping voltage up at the batteries), then adaptive (time adaptive) "absorption" begins (also at max charging voltage).

The true battery charge percentage the below measurements began at is unknown because my battery monitor had incorrect software settings at the time. It "showed" beginning charging at 83% (I believe it was actually a good bit lower).

The below voltages and amps are as measured at the batteries, not at the charger.

4:50 PM, Bulk, 13.7 volts 106.7 amps (charger just turned on)
5:17 PM, Bulk, 13.8 volts 103 amps

Note: I missed the measurement immediately before it switched to absorption, but "think" voltage would have reached 14. to 14.1 at switch in mode.

5:30 PM, Absorption, 14.1 volts 94 amps
6:15 PM, Absorption, 14.3 volts 32.5 amps
6:32 PM, Absorption, 14.3 volts 24.6 amps
6:43 PM, Absorption, 14.3 volts 21.2 amps
7:01 PM, Absorption, 14.3 volts 17 amps
7:19 PM, Absorption, 14.3 volts 14.7 amps
7:40 PM, Absorption, 14.3 volts 12.9 amps
8:06 PM, Absorption, 14.3 volts 11.1 amps
8:45 PM, Absorption, 14.3 volts 9.1 amps
9:07 PM, Absorption, 14.3 volts 8.2 amps
9:25 PM, Absorption, 14.3 volts 7.6 amps
9:30 PM, Absorption, 14.3 volts 7.4 amps

I "think" it stayed in absorption up to this point based on the adaptive calculation, not based on actual amps into the batteries. If the bulk mode had been shorter, the absorption time would also have been shorter, and the amps at switch to float may have been different as well.

Software settings on the Multi Invertor/charger allow for turning adaptive mode on or off, and changing voltage settings as well for absorption and float (but not for storage).

**** 9:41 PM, FLOAT, 13.7 volts 4.5 amps

**** Approx one hour later it was in storage mode at 13.13 volts, minimal amps

So lots of data that most will not care about, but demonstrative of ramp down in amps as charging proceeds, and bulk versus absorption being nearly the same concept. Bulk is ramping up volts to max (at the batteries) and time measured, then adaptive calculates how long to stay in absorption (also at max voltage).

Also in Victron documentation it states storage mode is after 24 hours of no battery discharge. Clearly with newer firmware updates the 24 hours is no longer true, as mine switched to storage when the charger determined the batteries were at 100 percent, with little load on the system (approx one hour of float, little DC load).

Re: Victron Invertor/BMV owners - compare software settings

Reply #9 – March 31, 2018, 03:07:00 pm

I think the storage mode is a great feature. My current coach battery charger (I no longer have a Foretravel) has a float voltage of 13.6 volts. I think that is way too high. So, when in storage, I turn off the coach battery charger and hook up an external charger directly to the coach batteries. That charger has a float of 13.2 volts.

Re: Victron Invertor/BMV owners - compare software settings

Reply #10 – March 31, 2018, 07:01:46 pm

Shorter test today, from about 93% charged. BMV battery monitor showed 100 percent charged well before invertor/charger moved from absorption to float (but not as early as last test). The change to float was at about 6.5 to 7 amps charging at batteries.

The tail current was set for 1.5%, will try 1% next.

Re: Victron Invertor/BMV owners - compare software settings

Reply #11 – March 31, 2018, 07:17:56 pm

Mk states to float its gels at 13.6 volts at 70 degrees F. Lifeline states 13.4.

On a Magnum ME-RC remote if the battery drops to 12.6 the control turns on the float for 4 hours.

Cycle repeats. 80% SOC back to 100% or however much of 100% you can get in four hours.

Changing to a ME-ARC as the voltage necessary to turn back on the charger is adjustable and the controller allows either going to float in storage mode or in silent mode it goes to bulk at whatever voltage you set for how long you set it if you want to over ride the std settings.

If you have the power versus on a limited supply I can see why the Advanced unit has the restart of charging cycle adjustable to lessen the cycling of the battery and/or optionally to allow zero power use in silent mode by just monitoring then where ever you set the voltage to go from off to bulk.

My buddy dislikes the 80% SOC needed on the RC unit to allow bulk larger 8d banks that can be 150 amp hours down.

Quicker for him as far as I understood this to run coach loads on the banks to get to 80% then bulk versus absorbtion mode.

Re: Victron Invertor/BMV owners - compare software settings

Reply #12 – March 31, 2018, 07:23:06 pm

Quote from: AC7880 – March 31, 2018, 07:01:46 pm

Shorter test today, from about 93% charged. BMV battery monitor showed 100 percent charged well before invertor/charger moved from absorption to float (but not as early as last test). The change to float was at about 6.5 to 7 amps charging at batteries.

The tail current was set for 1.5%, will try 1% next.

It is confusing. My battery monitor will show 94% SOC when charger goes into float mode, and will stay there at 4 or 5 amps for a while until monitor shows 100%. I don't have the ability to change the tail current, wish I did. Part of my problem is I have a constant 40-50 watt parasitic load.

Re: Victron Invertor/BMV owners - compare software settings

Reply #13 – March 31, 2018, 07:44:40 pm

The original freedom ran to 90% SOC before floating or timed out at 2 hours of absorbtion charging.

The magnum and its rc panel runs to 85% as a std setting.

The old Freedom manual suggests running from 50% SOC to 90% SOC in normal use with a every few day run up to 100% as going from 85-90% to 100% SOC can take 2-3 times longer.

That is less wear on gels as they do not sulfate like liquid batteries. So they can be returned to 100% as available without a reduction of capacity.

Liquid/agm's left in lower soc's can sulfate and reduce capacity over time. Lifeline can be equalized. As can flooded cells. Std AGM's cannot.

The 12 year oem gel life with a 90% SOC float setting shows that combo worked well.

Re: Victron Invertor/BMV owners - compare software settings

Reply #14 – March 31, 2018, 07:47:51 pm

I just did a custom charge profile on the Multi invertor/charger. 14.4 bulk/absorb (as it was), 13.45 float voltage (instead of 13.8 float before), leaving all other settings as is. I do have temp compensation.

Storage mode remains 13.2 (non settable value, only on or off). Storage mode takes the place of an extended float mode on this invertor/charger, so I don't need too low of a setting on float.

Untouched settings that remain as is: Repeat absorb time 1 hour, repeat absorb interval 7 days, max absorb time 8 hrs. Storage mode on, adaptive and battery safe selected.

I'm in float mode right now, real world showing 13.42 volts, 2.5 amps, 79 degrees at batteries.

Edit - Adding some info from the on line manual: "If the BMV synchronizes (to 100 percent) too early In solar systems or other applications with fluctuating charge currents, the following measures can be taken to reduce the probability for the BMV to reset prematurely to 100% state of charge: a) Increase the "charged" voltage to only slightly below the absorption charge voltage (for example: 14,2V in case of 14,4V absorption voltage). b) Increase the "charged" detection time and/or decrease the tail current to prevent an early reset due to to passing clouds. "

Re: Victron Invertor/BMV owners - compare software settings

Reply #15 – March 31, 2018, 07:55:43 pm

Lifelines better current current carrying internal connections require the 14.2 volts bulk and absorbtion volts and the lower float voltage of 13.4 according to their websites info.

My mk gels has a 14.15 tag physically on them new.

Re: Victron Invertor/BMV owners - compare software settings

Reply #16 – April 01, 2018, 01:32:04 am

For Lifeline AGM batteries, tech manual is at: http://2cw8eb1vmmgg3g5i7jzt6upo.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/6-0101-Rev-E-Lifeline-Technical-Manual.pdf
Pages 19 through 21 have the most critical info. (charge voltages at various temps, Peukert setting for chargers, conditioning voltage (only use as necessary)).

As Bob had indicated, Lifeline has different voltage recommendations than the Victron defaults.

Bulk/absorption 14.3 plus or minus 0.1 volts at 77 degrees F (my real world voltage was right at 14.3 at 78 to 81 degrees at batteries).

Float, Lifeline recommends 13.39 at 70 degrees, 13.3 at 77, and 13.25 at 80 degrees. (all plus or minus 0.1 volts)
Degrees Fahrenheit:
70: 13.29 to 13.49 volts
77: 13.2 - 13.4 volts
80: 13.15 - 13.35 volts

Anything from there should be temp compensated. Keep in mind the Victron multi goes to storage of 13.2 volts after float is complete and DC loads are low or compensated for by the charger.

Re: Victron Invertor/BMV owners - compare software settings

Reply #17 – April 01, 2018, 09:37:02 pm

Did a final test after changing settings and now happy with the results, and with the Victron Battery Monitor agreeing with actual Victron Multi invertor/charging.

Final settings on battery monitor (BMV 712):
Battery capacity set to 750 AH (actual 765 on 3 Lifeline 8Ds)
Charge voltage 14.2
Tail current: 1.00%
Chrg detect time 6m
peukert 1.20
efficiency 95%
threshold .10 A
time to go 3m

Started invertor charging at 92% battery SOC. Showed 100% SOC when float was down to 2.2 amps, and total battery discharge at - 6AH.
Very close with battery monitor to charger.

Invertor itself now set to 14.4 bulk/absorption volts, 13.45 float. Storage mode on (storage mode is non changable 13.2 volts), adaptive and battery safe selected.

I'll play with my solar setup soon. Eight 180 watt panels, 1440 watts total. Victron BlueSolar Smart MPPT 150/100-Tr (100A) controller.

Edit: The above values worked great with the inverter/charger, but not with solar charging only. It stalled out at 97% charged - never reaching 100%.

Back to:
Charge voltage 14.1
Tail current: 2.00%
Chrg detect time 3m
peukert 1.20
efficiency 95%
threshold .10 A
time to go 3m

.

Re: Victron Invertor/BMV owners - compare software settings

Reply #18 – April 01, 2018, 10:16:29 pm

Can you change the bulk/absorbtion voltage?

Re: Victron Invertor/BMV owners - compare software settings

Reply #19 – April 03, 2018, 03:42:21 pm

Quote from: Caflashbob – April 01, 2018, 10:16:29 pm

Can you change the bulk/absorbtion voltage?

Yes, to any desired voltage setting. Can also turn off the "adaptive" timing part and the "battery safe".

Re: Victron Invertor/BMV owners - compare software settings

Reply #20 – April 03, 2018, 04:33:04 pm

Then I assume you are going to reset the bulk/absorbation volts to the 14.2 lifeline specifies?

The constant for lifelines is 1.12 on their technical page?

Float is 13.4 at 70 degrees

Re: Victron Invertor/BMV owners - compare software settings

Reply #21 – April 03, 2018, 07:20:49 pm

Quote from: Caflashbob – April 01, 2018, 10:16:29 pm

Then I assume you are going to reset the bulk/absorbation volts to the 14.2 lifeline specifies?

I am not finding your 14.2 volts voltage figure on any Lifeline/Concorde site.

What I have found is:
Page 19. http://2cw8eb1vmmgg3g5i7jzt6upo.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/6-0101-Rev-E-Lifeline-Technical-Manual.pdf

Degrees Fahrenheit/float:
70: 13.39; (+/- .1 ) 13.29 - 13.49 volts float
77: 13.30; (+/- .1 ) 13.20 - 13.40 volts float
80: 13.25; (+/- .1 ) 13.15 - 13.35 volts float

Degrees Fahrenheit/absorb:
70: 14.41 (+/- .1 ) volts abs 14.31 - 14.51
77: 14.30 (+/- .1 ) volts abs 14.20 - 14.40
80: 14.27 (+/- .1 ) volts abs 14.17 - 14.37

Also see http://www.optimabatteries.nl/upl_files/File/lifeline%20owner%20manual.pdf
14.20 - 14.40 volts absorption 13.2 - 13.4 volts float

Real world retest on temp versus volts in the past hour: 73 degrees at batteries, Bulk/absorb is 14.37, float 13.43), and storage 13.18 at this temp.

Dropping my float from 13.45 now to 13.4. Done - now showing float at 13.35 at 73 degrees at batteries.

Happy with absorption as is for now. Bob - where are you seeing 14.2 for absorption? Link?

Re: Victron Invertor/BMV owners - compare software settings

Reply #22 – April 03, 2018, 08:47:43 pm

Same chart, as a comparison magnum uses in their me-rc 2009 manual 13.1 for float on a lifeline. Their me-arc manual 2014 says 13.1 also. Wonder why Magnum uses a lower number?

Just interested for gee-whiz knowledge.

Be worth a call as both lifeline and magnum are here in the USA.

13.1-13.3 is a difference at 77 degrees. Useless curiosity on my part.

Re: Victron Invertor/BMV owners - compare software settings

Reply #23 – April 03, 2018, 09:59:28 pm

I edited my last post. Here was the new info:

Real world retest on temp versus volts in the past hour: 73 degrees at batteries, Bulk/absorb is 14.37, float 13.43, and storage 13.18 at this temp.

Dropping my float from 13.45 now to 13.4. Done - now showing float at 13.35 at 73 degrees at batteries.

Re: Victron Invertor/BMV owners - compare software settings

Reply #24 – April 05, 2020, 11:56:37 am

Thank you AC7880 for your very thorough explanation of setting up your Victron Multipath and Victron battery monitor BMV 712 with Lifeline AGM batteries. After reading this including CaFlashBob's input, I now have some things to check to make sure my settings are proper and giving me good information.

I have added this only 9 min video for all to watch, as it is the best I've come across to get across the importance of never letting your AGM batteries go below 12.2 (approx 50% charge) and the importance of the Victron battery moniter in extending the life of your batteries. Not going below 12.2, fully 100% charging, and only going to 80 or 90% state of charge extends life also more with your AGM's. To the point by this video, and AM Solar.

I would play this video thru till the end, as all is useful, even past his short talk about returning earphones to Walmart.

https://youtu.be/BJyjRUErSi8

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