Generator won't start

Topic: Generator won't start (Read 1545 times) previous topic - next topic

Generator won't start

March 29, 2018, 07:59:33 pm

I've returned to the generator after taking a break to deal with the toilet.
To recap: About a month ago, I decided to clean the contacts in the control box that sits on top of my generator (10kw Kubota) after an unexplained self start of the generator. While removing the wires from the 40A circuit breaker on the right side (next to the row of relays), I managed to create an arc when my wrench contacted the side of the CB. I reconnected the wires and found that the generator would not start - no indication that electricity was reaching the set. I could not find a hot wire anywhere in the box. The two toggle CBs and two 12v fuses on the panel are all good. There are no other circuit breakers or fuses under the bed or in the basement that labeled "generator". The cooling fan CB button is "out" and when I push it in, it does not stay in. The terminals on the back show continuity regardless of the button's position, which seems odd.
Any ideas?
Thanks

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #1 – March 29, 2018, 08:21:21 pm

Sven,

You should have a 5 amp fuse (IIRC) in the area of your Genwizard. Look for a shielded 2 wire cable and there should be a fuse holder. If it is blown it will kill all control voltage to the generator.

Pamela & Mike

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #2 – March 29, 2018, 10:21:47 pm

I've never heard of the animal. When I searched Geniwizard it took me to the world of fantasy games, where I have always feared to tread. What is it and where would I find it?

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #3 – March 30, 2018, 07:55:28 am

Sven,

It (the Genwizard system) is the control modules that looks at the 12VDC voltage and when it dips below set point it will start the generator to keep the batteries charged. Once the batteries get to the upper set point this is what shuts down the generator. One of the modules looks at voltage (the SS1) the other interprets this info and starts and stops the generator as needed. On a 2000 year model it may have some other name as the genwizard is the old school name. (like Cresent wrench is a brand name for an adjustable end wrench). Sometime around 2000 is when they changed brands of these control modules.

In either your generator book or your Foretravel print book (most is in the big black binder) should have the A-6521 which covers this system and the A-6682 which shows the Dyna-gen auto start system. (this print also showes the interface with the SS1). I think it was after the 2000 year model (like 2003) that they changed the print numbers for this.

The control module should be hid in the dash. I have found most of them under the center section of the dash. Now knowing Foretravel it could be hid any where as they are famous for on the fly changes which could entail relocation of some parts.(like this) With you having a mid entry coach the dash should be basicaly the same as a front entry coach. I know this is a vague location info but hopefully it will put you on the right track. I don't have any pics. of what you are looking for at present that could help you out in your search.

Pamela & Mike

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #4 – March 30, 2018, 12:28:51 pm

Mike (assuming not Pamela),
Thanks for taking the time to make your detailed response. I looked up Dyna-gen as it applies to Power Tech and the result was the attached photo. I'm not in front of my control box (on top of generator), but the photo with the row of led lights resembles a unit toward the rear of the control box. You mentioned that this should be under the dash, so I will trace the wires from the auto start switch (if possible) to see if I can find the control box that resembles the photo. Hopefully, I will find the 5A fuse you referenced earllier.

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #5 – March 30, 2018, 12:32:47 pm

Quote from: Sven and Kristi – March 30, 2018, 12:28:51 pm

Mike (assuming not Pamela),
Thanks for taking the time to make your detailed response. I looked up Dyna-gen as it applies to Power Tech and the result was the attached photo. I'm not in front of my control box (on top of generator), but the photo with the row of led lights resembles a unit toward the rear of the control box. You mentioned that this should be under the dash, so I will trace the wires from the auto start switch (if possible) to see if I can find the control box that resembles the photo. Hopefully, I will find the 5A fuse you referenced earllier.
I come to this site for most of the issues I have with the coach, but I find that I learn a lot from other owners. Unfortunately, I have found that the manuals come up short as a source of information. For example, I have not been able to find a section that shows the fuse boxes; the manuals for each of my autos, by contrast, are much more helpful.

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #6 – March 30, 2018, 03:21:52 pm

Howdy Sven,
Attached is the A-6682. I don't have the A-6521.
Good Luck, Dave A

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #7 – March 30, 2018, 03:32:04 pm

Dave,

Thanks for the '00 print as I don't have one.

@ Sven,
If you see the BCM-12 It is doing the same thing as the old style SS1 There should be a fuse holder in the power feed going to #1 on the terminal strip. Sorry about using the old terms/names for parts.

Mike

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #8 – March 30, 2018, 06:31:37 pm

Beamalarm has some good information on the module itself: Dynagen BCM-12 Specifications

I located the unit just above the Audit box, mounted opposite the fold up tray. Unfortunately, the fuse was intact, so this would not be the cause of my problem. I did not find an inline fuse or at least one that was visible, and the diagram did not show one.

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #9 – March 30, 2018, 06:35:57 pm

Did you ohm the 12 volt fuses or just look at them. I have seen fuses that looked good that had no continuity

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #10 – March 30, 2018, 06:47:20 pm

Sven,

That would be the hidden fuse that I was talking about. I wish your problem was as simple as replacing that fuse. Yes it should be shown on the prints as that would be nice for people troubleshooting.

Mike

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #11 – March 30, 2018, 07:29:34 pm

Quote from: craneman – March 30, 2018, 06:35:57 pm

Did you ohm the 12 volt fuses or just look at them. I have seen fuses that looked good that had no continuity

I did, which is my habit from "painful experience".
The diagram shows a 10A inline fuse from the dash start switch to what looks like a 12v power source which I assume to be the 40A circuit breaker (next to the three relays in the control box attached to the generator). I did a continuity check between the dash switch wires to the white wire attached to the CB - no continuity, which would be expected if an inline fuse (hidden) was bad. Second problem, is that I detected no power to the 12v side of the CB. When I arc-ed that terminal, that could have flipped another CB (not yet found) between it and the battery.
By now, only the most dedicated are reading this and I'm getting ready to call an expert.

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #12 – March 30, 2018, 07:37:35 pm

Any chance of a picture? If your generator is the same as mine I might be able to see where the 12 volts come from as mine is working and right here in the yard. Does it look like this one?

http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=32784.0;attach=59509;image
Go to the first post .

How not to change voltage regulator in genset

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #13 – March 30, 2018, 09:10:28 pm

Do you have 12 volts getting to the generator? Check on the back side of the generator quiet box and see if there is 12 bolts there.

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #14 – March 30, 2018, 11:21:50 pm

Sven, what Ron is asking could be your problem. When I replaced my generator it wouldn't start and I had no voltage in the box. I called Jeff and he told me that the only thing he could think of was the plug that went into the back of the box. I had not plugged it in!! Connected it and all was well. You might have fried one of the contacts in the plug. I used a mirror and flashlight to locate it and hooked it up by Braille. It has a small umbilical cord coming out of the box that goes to the power from the coach.

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #15 – March 31, 2018, 04:55:56 pm

I checked the back of the generator and found the wires going up and over the back panel of the generator. There were crimp connectors, but I was not able to see or feel a plug. I found the heavy wire lugs for the Kubota starter: There was no voltage from the positive wire = no power to start the generator.
If it were like a car starter, the red wire would go directly to the battery and the solenoid, of course, would complete the circuit when energized by the ignition key. I would expect that red wire to be hot at all times.
Two questions: 1- is there a relay or CB between the lug and the battery and if so, where would it be?
2- Should I try jump starting the generator using a car battery?

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #16 – March 31, 2018, 06:21:43 pm

Quote from: Sven and Kristi – March 31, 2018, 04:55:56 pm

I would expect that red wire to be hot at all times.
1- is there a relay or CB between the lug and the battery and if so, where would it be?
2- Should I try jump starting the generator using a car battery?

Sven,

That red wire on the starter should go straight to the battery. Ours is just a cable with no breaker or fuse.
I have never had to or try to jump start with a set of jumper cables.
Your problem is getting stranger by the minuite. Keep us informed and you/we may stumble across the problem.

Mike

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #17 – March 31, 2018, 07:10:12 pm

"That red wire on the starter should go straight to the battery"

As I would expect. My next move would be to disconnect it, ID the cable in the battery compartment and do a continuity test.

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #18 – March 31, 2018, 07:41:43 pm

That is like a #2 cable if it was to go to ground it would make a big show. It could have a bad end or could have been damaged inside the insulation somewhere. The continuity test would prove the cable.

Mike

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #19 – March 31, 2018, 08:47:05 pm

So you did have 12 volts between the 2 terminals that was in your picture?

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #20 – March 31, 2018, 09:21:06 pm

Quote from: red tractor – March 31, 2018, 08:47:05 pm

So you did have 12 volts between the 2 terminals that was in your picture?

No, I have no voltage between the two. The positive lug is on the left, while the one on the right goes to ground on the frame. Putting my positive probe from the multi tester onto the left side and neg. to the right lug, should be just like putting it on the terminals of the battery, with a small drop in voltage from the long cable. I completely bypass the generator, so it isn't an issue. No point in checking the generator until the issue of incoming voltage to it is resolved.

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #21 – April 01, 2018, 07:56:00 pm

Is there a schematic of the 12 volt system that shows where the generator gets its voltage. I am thinking that there is a circuit breaker behind the white removable panel, maybe a 90 amp that has tripped when you had the arc.

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #22 – April 01, 2018, 07:57:39 pm

The 90 amp breaker is round and should have a red button in the center. There should be 2 or 3 of them check for voltage on both sides of the breaker.

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #23 – April 01, 2018, 10:12:32 pm

I took the day off today (highly recommend "Game Night" movie) so didn't get dirty. By "white panel", do you mean the one behind the generator? There is an access panel (visible in the photo) on the rear housing panel that I will remove and check. If there is a CB there, I don't think that would shut off the power "upstream" (at the lug, discussed earlier). For no power to be present at the lug, the CB would have to be somewhere between it and the battery. I'll get back on it in the morning.

Re: Generator won't start

Reply #24 – April 01, 2018, 10:14:21 pm

He is referring to the upholstered panel as you enter the coach on the right.

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