House Batteries

Topic: House Batteries (Read 1500 times) previous topic - next topic

House Batteries

March 31, 2018, 12:21:15 pm

I've learned a great deal about batteries here, thanks to the members who have responded to my confusion. I have one more request for insight and opinions...

I was convinced through research that the Trojan T-105 6-volt golf cart battery would be a good replacement for my worn-out Gel-Tech bank. However, where the Gel-Tech are sealed, maintenance-free batteries, the Trojan appear to be the type that require monitoring of fluid level and the periodic addition of water. I'm interested in members experience and opinion regarding this maintenance burden.

Thanks in advance to all.

Re: House Batteries

Reply #1 – March 31, 2018, 12:34:49 pm

I had Trojan flooded 6-volt batteries in my first coach. The batteries were mounted on a pull out drawer/shelf, so checking the batteries was no problem. I kept a gallon of distilled water on board, and checked levels at least once a month. I sold the coach to someone who failed to check the water levels even though I had showed him how to check. He boiled them dry and destroyed them.

So, if your battery location makes it easy to pull the caps off and visually see water levels, and if you do so on a regular basis and keep them topped off it will be fine.

However if they are difficult to check and top off due to mounted location I advise against it.

Quote from: RandallBrink – March 31, 2018, 12:21:15 pm

I've learned a great deal about batteries here, thanks to the members who have responded to my confusion. I have one more request for insight and opinions...

I was convinced through research that the Trojan T-105 6-volt golf cart battery would be a good replacement for my worn-out Gel-Tech bank. However, where the Gel-Tech are sealed, maintenance-free batteries, the Trojan appear to be the type that require monitoring of fluid level and the periodic addition of water. I'm interested in members experience and opinion regarding this maintenance burden.

Thanks in advance to all.

Re: House Batteries

Reply #2 – March 31, 2018, 12:37:57 pm

Thank you very much. Fortunately mine are readily accessible for maintenance and I am will to do the routine maint in exchange of batteries that are 1/3 the cost of the Gel-Tech!

Re: House Batteries

Reply #3 – March 31, 2018, 12:38:50 pm

On a separate but related note, do you have a "smart charger" that does bulk, absorption, and float? If you have a older single stage "battery boiler" charger, you should consider upgrading to help improve battery life and prevent boil off and overcharging.

Re: House Batteries

Reply #4 – March 31, 2018, 12:40:14 pm

Corrosive and potentially explosive gas coming off wet batteries make them a non-starter for my personal use. Only benefit is cost advantage of wet batteries, but not compelling to me

Re: House Batteries

Reply #5 – March 31, 2018, 12:49:29 pm

Tim made a great point. Is your battery mounting location well vented?

Re: House Batteries

Reply #6 – March 31, 2018, 12:52:11 pm

Have 2 Trojan 8D AGM batteries,have had for over a year,no problems,purchased from continental battery.

Re: House Batteries

Reply #7 – March 31, 2018, 01:05:22 pm

I replaced my original house gel batteries in 2013 with gel batteries again. That was 12 years on the originals and so far the replacements are doing well. We live full time in our coach, sometimes plugged in, sometimes boondocking. I like the maintenance free part of gel or AGM myself.

Sounds like another personal preference based on $$$ and how much regular work you want to do.

In the words of our late friend Dave M. - do what makes you happy.

Cya down the road................

Re: House Batteries

Reply #8 – March 31, 2018, 01:21:03 pm

I am not very good at remembering to check fluids as often as I should. Also, I really don't want to deal with the battery corrosion and off gassing from batteries.

I bought AGM for my coach.

Re: House Batteries

Reply #9 – March 31, 2018, 01:24:25 pm

Nothing wrong with tried and true wet batteries. But as others have said they take more care, adding water, cleaning cables, and must be in a well vented area.

Re: House Batteries

Reply #10 – March 31, 2018, 02:52:18 pm

I ran 4 - T145 - 6V- - wet cells for about 4 years and never had a issue, they were still good when I replaced them with L16 AGM batteries.
They were on a pull out drawer.
No big deal to use wet cells, just a bit more maintenance and time to monitor them, but then again you have to keep your eye on all batteries. Hurts a lot more ( wallet) when a set of AGM or GEL batteries are ignored and a problem arises and caught too late.

Re: House Batteries

Reply #11 – March 31, 2018, 03:49:20 pm

Dan,

That's a very good point, and I do have a multi-stage charger for that purpose.

Re: House Batteries

Reply #12 – March 31, 2018, 03:52:54 pm

Dan,

My battery rack is in the wet bay, which is open when parked, but not sure of degree of ventilation while underway.

Re: House Batteries

Reply #13 – March 31, 2018, 03:55:56 pm

We have AGM batteries, house has Lifelines, coach has Optima + a dual charger (Truecharge 40) that Brett put in. Every couple of weeks, when we sit at the pier, the batteries will have a self induced "tune-up", 14.0/14.3. When we go back to normal, she reads:
This is off the dash, the readings on the Truecharge are the same.

Re: House Batteries

Reply #14 – April 01, 2018, 08:08:42 am

In our pre-RV days we had a 44' trawler with a battery bank of 8 Trojan 105s.

The PO (an Engineer in the Merchant Marine) had replaced the vent covers with HYDROCAP VENTs .
(Hydrocap |)

While not completely maintenance free, they came close and took care of the hydrogen problem.

Re: House Batteries

Reply #15 – April 01, 2018, 09:23:11 am

Spent a large percentage of my time as the ca Foretravel stores sales manager in the 80's playing with flooded cell batteries and single stage battery boilersh(chargers). Enough problems that any used coach that came through my store had new batteries put in it regardless of their apparent condition. Less problems that way. Less phone calls. Happier customers. More repeats.

Fast forward 30 years. Gel batteries cost per cycle make them the least expensive to buy.

Multi stsge charging with battery temp controls allow 100% correct use.

Every Foretravel unicoach since late 97 has both of these standard.

If the coach is a "keeper" over the long run the difference in the usability and reliability and the servicing flooded will require will leave a bad taste in most owners mouths that stays in your mind.

Last parts of the new systems is a auto combiner and a solar panel setup of some kind to keep the battery bsnks charge up.

Versus constantly monitoring the batteries a complete system is a time and money saver.

Hundreds of hours play8ng with 1984-1989 Foretravel coaches battery issues caused me to be the first rv store I know of to fit solar panels on every new coach I sold starting in 1986.

Lots of old Foretravel had ground issues as they grounded to the frame)(flickering lights) and draws. Plus the lead acid self discharge rate is much higher.

Yes I know it's more of an initial investment. The coach is THE BATTERY SYSTEM.

12 year plus gel life. 5 years is good on lead acid. Unless you are religious on your battery monitoring and charging and watering you will see a decreasing capacity way short of five years.

I would sell a body part to generate the money to upgrade the batteries to the latest technology myself.

That much difference in use and having to play with batteries constantly. And desulfate them by boiling them. Gag. Nightmares still about 80's Era coaches battery issues I have experienced. Bulb lights and poor grounds, high self discharge rates, single stage chargers, explosive vapors, cable maintenance, battery acid damage to the structure,

My old school two cents. Remember I sold 89's new....

Re: House Batteries

Reply #16 – April 01, 2018, 10:46:37 am

Get four of these 1000Amp-Hour LiFePO4 cells in series. They will replace both the house and engine batteries and save 100s of pounds. You can also remove the diode isolator and boost circuit. The alternator will charge this battery.

PROS:
- No maintenance, no corrosion, no worries
- Long life: 7000 cycles at 70% Depth of Discharge ~ 20 Year lifetime
- Outstanding engine cranking: 20,000 cranking amps. WOW!
- Runs coach better: No voltage sag: steady 13.2 Volts until discharged
- Simple: No computers or BMS required
- Good for solar: Does not have to charge to 100% to maximize service life
- Good power density: 12 KWH for 280 Pounds
- Low cost in the long run

CONS
- High initial price: About $4000 for four batteries, including the 30% discount for federal solar tax credit
- Should be climate controlled: 40F to 90F
- Maintainability. Not as well understood by commercial technicians (except AM Solar and the like)
However, there is a wealth of knowledge on the internet.

For specs, see: LYP1000AHC

Re: House Batteries

Reply #17 – April 01, 2018, 11:12:45 am

I built that same system for my 1998 Newell in 2013. It was an awesome system with 800 useable amp hours. But it did require a BMS since it is still LiFePO4 (lithium iron phosphate) chemistry and is susceptible to over charging and over discharging which will damage them. In a nutshell I replaced 6 8d batteries with these 4 cells, saved lots of room and over 600# weight. It made a very clean system. I sold them to a good friend in 2015 and he is still using them in his Newell. His last check and they were still balanced within .005 volts! Another note about these is that they will accept as many charging amps as you can pump into them. So while the engine alternator will charge them if you don't have a way to throttle the output on the alternator you can literally destroy your alternator or at the least it will eat belts like candy.
Would I do it again? Absolutely! It was a fun project and if the cells were readily available again I would do it. But there is quite a bit to understand about these. They are not plug-n-play. Here is the link to my install: Lithium battery install

Re: House Batteries

Reply #18 – April 01, 2018, 03:39:06 pm

Quote from: Tim – April 01, 2018, 10:46:37 am

Get four of these 1000Amp-Hour LiFePO4 cells in series. They will replace both the house and engine batteries and save 100s of pounds. You can also remove the diode isolator and boost circuit. The alternator will charge this battery.

PROS:
- No maintenance, no corrosion, no worries
- Long life: 7000 cycles at 70% Depth of Discharge ~ 20 Year lifetime
- Outstanding engine cranking: 20,000 cranking amps. WOW!
- Runs coach better: No voltage sag: steady 13.2 Volts until discharged
- Simple: No computers or BMS required
- Good for solar: Does not have to charge to 100% to maximize service life
- Good power density: 12 KWH for 280 Pounds
- Low cost in the long run

CONS
- High initial price: About $4000 for four batteries, including the 30% discount for federal solar tax credit
- Should be climate controlled: 40F to 90F
- Maintainability. Not as well understood by commercial technicians (except AM Solar and the like)
However, there is a wealth of knowledge on the internet.

For specs, see: LYP1000AHC

Tim, I really want the Chevy volt battery at 12v... Will need a bms. I could make 1 correct? or buy 1 that does 12v (converted from the oem).

Found a guy who will convert a Ford Cmax battery for me to 12v 400ah but needs a bms(he has a multi cell charger) he can sell me but not sure how to tie it all together.. Any ideas? are you still in Death Valley?

Re: House Batteries

Reply #19 – April 01, 2018, 04:52:04 pm

I buy 6 volt golf cart batteries at Sam's Club (https://www.samsclub.com/sams/golf-cart-batteries/3990117.cp) and bought a Pro-Fill battery watering kit at Jan Watercraft Products ( Battery Watering Systems, Marine Dock Products, Solar Dock Lights).
My batteries and the fill kit are both 3.5 years old and I am very happy with them.

Re: House Batteries

Reply #20 – April 02, 2018, 04:28:03 pm

I am now in Durango, CO. Yes, you need a computerized BMS for anything more than four cells in series, IMHO.

Re: House Batteries

Reply #21 – April 02, 2018, 10:20:41 pm

I will never go back to wet cell batteries, due to the maintenance issues. When I had the Safari with Trojan batteries, I used the Pro-fill watering system which not only made the job of keeping proper levels easy, but possible (nearly impossible to see into the cells on the inside batteries. You can get them at Camping World: Pro-Fill RV Edition Dual 6-Volt Battery Watering System - Flow-Rite Controls...

Re: House Batteries

Reply #22 – April 02, 2018, 10:30:05 pm

Quote from: Tim – April 02, 2018, 04:28:03 pm

I am now in Durango, CO. Yes, you need a computerized BMS for anything more than four cells in series, IMHO.

Can A bms be made for the Volt battery at 12v? or the Ford Cmax battery? Im pretty sure it can.. just need something to tell it what to do and how?

Re: House Batteries

Reply #23 – April 02, 2018, 10:50:41 pm

A BMS is a good insurance policy for any voltage battery. There was/is a fellow on eBay selling Volt batteries and BMSs, for a price.

That said, humans make good BMSs if they monitor the cell voltages manually.

Re: House Batteries

Reply #24 – April 02, 2018, 11:36:24 pm

Quote from: Tim – April 02, 2018, 10:50:41 pm

A BMS is a good insurance policy for any voltage battery. There was/is a fellow on eBay selling Volt batteries and BMSs, for a price.

I have talked to him but he wants $300 for the bms in 12v

Quote from: Tim – April 02, 2018, 10:50:41 pm

That said, humans make good BMSs if they monitor the cell voltages manually.

This guy does not have time for all that... I need it VERRRRRRY simple lol .. if not I might neglect lol

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