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Topic: Ignition Off, Circuits Live, Need Headlamps OFF, 1997 U320 (Read 780 times) previous topic - next topic

Ignition Off, Circuits Live, Need Headlamps OFF, 1997 U320

Ignition switch acting up looks like. Chassis battery needs headlamps off to charge back up. How?

Camped last night way out in boondock country. Woke up about midnight to find all dash indicator lamps on and daytime running headlamps on, though ignition switch off. Coach started OK but nowhere to go for repair and roads rough and winding .... and we could not move anyway as two campers had pulled in after 10 PM and blocked our exit.

Reluctantly started generator to try and keep batteries alive, but this AM though activity when turn on ignition, not enough juice to turn engine over to start. Maintainer type charger on chassis batteries.

Figure if I could get the headlamps off, batteries could recover enough to get started and find a repair shop.

How can I get them turned off? Not familiar with the style of circuit breaker or the type of plug on the lite switch, and don't want to break anything. Is there a switch on the breaker? Can I pry the wire plug off the headlight switch.

Situation likely getting worse as I take time finding no solution.

Ideas?  Thanks!
Jack Binkley & Nancy Jo Harmon
The SunRamblers

Rambling the continent in an RV, looking for sunshine, favorite & new places, & friends old & new.

36' 1997 Foretravel U320    # 5141

Re: Ignition Off, Circuits Live, Need Headlamps OFF, 1997 U320

Reply #1 –
Try a light, sharp rap on it to temporarily "unstick" the contacts.

Also, make sure that the small terminal  on the ignition solenoid does not have 12 VDC positive to it, which would indicate an issue with ignition switch or wiring. Note: if two small terminals, one is ground, the other receives 12 VDC positive from the ignition switch.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Ignition Off, Circuits Live, Need Headlamps OFF, 1997 U320

Reply #2 –
Hi Bret,

Do you mean to tap the ignition relay? (or the switch?)

Found the "headlight" connector on the bottom right of the right side panel. Could I just pry that connection apart to get the lights off?

Remember you well, you pre-purchase inspected for us at Apache Junction a few tears back (2015?)

Jack

Jack Binkley & Nancy Jo Harmon
The SunRamblers

Rambling the continent in an RV, looking for sunshine, favorite & new places, & friends old & new.

36' 1997 Foretravel U320    # 5141

Re: Ignition Off, Circuits Live, Need Headlamps OFF, 1997 U320

Reply #3 –
Headlights and running lights do not go through the ignition solenoid. Most likely it is a headlight switch problem. I'm sure the headlight switch would have a removable plug on the back.
1994 U280, Build 4490
Deming, NM.

Re: Ignition Off, Circuits Live, Need Headlamps OFF, 1997 U320

Reply #4 –
Hi Brett and Twig,

Got the coach started with a boost from a nearby camper who was not "up and about" earlier.

Will get back to a nearby town and look at the iissues and all comments, maybe find a service shop.

The light switch cable does not separate easily, afraid I'll break it, will send picture later if needed.

Will also check for the wiring suggested.

Thanks guys!

Jack
Jack Binkley & Nancy Jo Harmon
The SunRamblers

Rambling the continent in an RV, looking for sunshine, favorite & new places, & friends old & new.

36' 1997 Foretravel U320    # 5141

Re: Ignition Off, Circuits Live, Need Headlamps OFF, 1997 U320

Reply #5 –
Quote from: SunRambler Jack –
Hi Brett,

Do you mean to tap the ignition relay? (or the switch?)

You would tap on the IGNITION SOLENOID if everything that works with the ignition on also works with the ignition off. Easy check is to see if the dash HVAC fan works-- it is wired through the ignition solenoid.

Either the contacts in the solenoid are bad OR it is incorrectly receiving a 12 VDC positive from the ignition switch.

As already posted, your headlights may NOT be wired through the ignition solenoid, but directly to the chassis battery side.


Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Ignition Off, Circuits Live, Need Headlamps OFF, 1997 U320

Reply #6 –
Headlights are powered by a Bosch type relay on front dash large breaker panel.  Pull out the correct relay to turn off.  Relay points may be stuck?

Re: Ignition Off, Circuits Live, Need Headlamps OFF, 1997 U320

Reply #7 –
Absolutely, the points in the headlight relay may also be stuck.  Again, you can temporarily try to free them by giving it a sharp, light rap.  Then replace.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Ignition Off, Circuits Live, Need Headlamps OFF, 1997 U320

Reply #8 –
Hi all, and thanks to all those who replied.

The problem deepens. Got to a shop. Headlight relay unlocked, Starter relay had 12 volts on both sides even when ignition switch off and relay not fired. Isolated the 12 volts to a single wire that had twelve volts to it all the time, but connected so should have been getting 12 volts not providing it. Working on its origin.

The headlight relay is black, about one inch square on the end, mounted on an included single bolt hole bracket; with about a one inch long smaller end that show the wires.

Talking to tech, we realized some issues started appearing after alternator was changed.

Old alternator had a terminal for an excitation 12 volt from the ignition system, that fired the alyternator. First shop, apparently used a self-exciting alternator replacement, and put the "starter" lead onto a shared terminal on the alternator. Doesn't look right to tech, he is on a break for "lunch" as it is three o'clock here and he was fitting us in. He's confused about voltages that are showing up., but did get all the dash indicators behaving properly and Allison panel now only lit when key on.

Still working on what he thinks about the alternator. Alternator seems like not working right with the wire removed that should not be needed with the self-exciting unit.

Is this a known issue? Is there a solution for the extra "starter" lead?

He may figure it out, but thought I would raise it here in case these issues are familiar to somebody.

Thanks for reading! Ideas?

Jack
Jack Binkley & Nancy Jo Harmon
The SunRamblers

Rambling the continent in an RV, looking for sunshine, favorite & new places, & friends old & new.

36' 1997 Foretravel U320    # 5141

Re: Ignition Off, Circuits Live, Need Headlamps OFF, 1997 U320

Reply #9 –
Sounds like if you get things back like before the new alternator was installed things will be OK.
On the same note I will never understand how a shop can replace an alternator with a different one and somehow think it will work.

Let us know exactly what the alternator is so we can troubleshoot further.
96 U270 BUILD 4810
85 380SL
Drummonds TN.

Re: Ignition Off, Circuits Live, Need Headlamps OFF, 1997 U320

Reply #10 –
It's not just the wire. The new alternator MUST be modified for DUVAC system. Plenty to search for there..........I don't know if that's causing your headlight problem, but I know it's causing your alternator problems.
1994 U280, Build 4490
Deming, NM.

Re: Ignition Off, Circuits Live, Need Headlamps OFF, 1997 U320

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Twig –
It's not just the wire. The new alternator MUST be modified for DUVAC system. Plenty to search for there..........I don't know if that's causing your headlight problem, but I know it's causing your alternator problems.

PLUS 10 on the "new alternator MUST be modified for DUVAC system."

There are two leads that were originally connected to the original Alternator, the excite and the sense wires.
The shop installing the replacement alternator  tried to figure out how to use both and probably tied them together.

The excite wire goes to 12v  when the ignition is turned on.
The sense wire is always 12v because it connects to the start battery .

By connecting the two you back feed 12v to the ignition ON side of the ignition switch.

See What is DUVAC?

You should have a 12volt wiring  diagram (B-2179) in your big black notebook
Along the top are a bunch of boxes depicting terminal posts on the wiring panel in front of the passenger seat.
Post #35 is the "Alt Excit" connection.
Lifting the wire(s) on that post will turn off  a backfeed to the ignition  condition. Would let all else operate normally (while camped) until you need to restore the ignition to start and move.

HTH



Elliott & Mary Bray
ex. 1996 36' U295 - Build 4879
ex. 2018 Coachmen Leprechaun 319MB