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Engine Cranks-won't start


  2003 ISM-450
  Coach is at service repair station getting drive axle seal replaced.
  Tech went to move it and it would not start. It had started fine a few days ago.
 
  I went to the station to see if I could get it started.
  House & Chassis batteries show 13.5 and 13.1 respectively.
  Tried it with the Boost switch from both ignition key and the remote start in the rear--Cranks but will not start...
 
  Funny thing is the Volt gauge, Engine Oil Pressure and the Engine water Temp on the dashboard don't even move.
  Also, the Drivers Information Center (DIC) display "No information available" for the engine data--Vehicle data displays fine
  I never saw that before.

  The ABS system goes through its check and other gauges on dash register.
    Tech thinks a fuse or circuit breaker somewhere in the wiring to the ECM may be the problem.

  Before he starts going thru the wiring system at $125+/hr--I thought I would check with the group and see if anyone
  has an idea/solution.
      Thanks--Jim

 
Jim & Doreen
2003 U320

 "Too often I would hear men boast of the miles covered that day, rarely of what they had seen"
― Louis L'Amour

Re: Engine Cranks-won't start

Reply #1 –
Fuel delivery?  Clogged filters?
Randy (N4TDT) and Karen Crete
Sarasota, Florida
SOLD:  2000 U270 34' WTFE Build 5756 "Ole Red"

Re: Engine Cranks-won't start

Reply #2 –
" Funny thing is the Volt gauge, Engine Oil Pressure and the Engine water Temp on the dashboard don't even move.
  Also, the Drivers Information Center (DIC) display "No information available" for the engine data--Vehicle data displays fine
  I never saw that before."

Check for voltage IN and OUT of the IGNITION SOLENOID with the key ON. Good battery voltage but nothing working that normally works with the ignition on suggests that this is the first thing to check.

Let us know voltage readings on each large lug with ignition on AND also at the small terminal to ground.  If two small terminals, measure between them.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Engine Cranks-won't start

Reply #3 –
If I remember correctly the 03 has a different style of ignition solenoid, looks like a black relay and is behind the panel in front of the passenger seat.
previous 1984 35 ft ORED 250 HP 3208 Cat       
previous 1998 40 ft U295 CAI 325 hp Cummins
previous 2003 40 Ft u320 build #6140 450 Cummins M11.                                                         
1999 Mazda Miata
Ron, Nancy, Tipper the cat, Max The dog
1997 U 270 36 ft build number 5174 8.3 Cummins

Re: Engine Cranks-won't start

Reply #4 –
Until you figure out the real problem try "jiggling" the key in the ignition.  Worked for me after spending half a day trouble shooting at a campground.
Glen & Suzie
1998 U320 36'
Build #5366
2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland
2015 ATC Aluminum 20' Trailer
Previous 1996 U295 40'
Motorcade #17546
Stephenville, TX

Re: Engine Cranks-won't start

Reply #5 –
By troubleshooting the ignition solenoid (check voltage as suggested) you can easily identify if there is a problem with the signal from the ignition switch.

And if that is found, you can use a remove the signal wire from ignition switch at the solenoid and run a small jumper wire from the chassis battery side to the signal terminal.  Very low amps, so even a 16 gauge jumper will work. 

Yes, another "work around" is to remove one of the large wires from one of the large lugs on the ignition solenoid and ADD IT TO the other large lug.  Effectively doing what the ignition solenoid does when working.  Yes, to "turn it off", you would need to remove the wire.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Engine Cranks-won't start

Reply #6 –


    Thank You all for the suggestions. 
    Will be back at shop in the morning and see if I can get it going.
                        TY--Jim
Jim & Doreen
2003 U320

 "Too often I would hear men boast of the miles covered that day, rarely of what they had seen"
― Louis L'Amour

Re: Engine Cranks-won't start

Reply #7 –
  No Joy today--
  Load tested all three start Batteries--2yr old AGM Group 31 Deka Intimidators ---all three passed at 13.0 volts.

 Cleaned all terminals and connections --all clean and tight-still no power to ECM.
 Spoke to James Triana and checked fuses located in engine compartment replaced 3 out of 7 that were blown.
 Checked Bosch starter solenoids/relays located behind front passenger side kick panel and  power is passed to all circuits when
 ignition switch is in the on position.

 Sill no power to Dash volt gauge-engine oil pressure and engine water temp gauges.
 Only lights in dash cluster that show up are ABS, Parking brake and Level System.
  Drivers Info Center still has No Engine data available and for Vehicle data shows 0.0 volts??

 Tech hooked up Cummins Insite computer to Deutsch pin at dash and at engine and no communication between the computer
 and the ECM.
  Transmission shift pad lights up and shows"N"  No active codes.

  Going back tomorrow to be a "helper" with their electrical Tech and see if we can find a hidden fuse or broken wire somewhere.

  Need to get this sorted so we can go on our planned trip in 12 days???

    Thanks for all your suggestions--Jim
Jim & Doreen
2003 U320

 "Too often I would hear men boast of the miles covered that day, rarely of what they had seen"
― Louis L'Amour

Re: Engine Cranks-won't start

Reply #8 –
Jim,

That sounds like the main buss cable to the engine ECM may have shorted a wire or wires at the cable plug where it enters the ECM.  Give that plug a good look over as something caused the fuses to blow. 

Mike

Pamela & Mike 97 U 320

"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters."

Re: Engine Cranks-won't start

Reply #9 –
   Update: Success --it lives to see another trip ;)

    At the risk of being an idiot, but in the hopes that it may save someone else a headache:
          The tech who cleaned all chassis battery connections including the Positive and negative connections that are on
          the frame rail-had one of the negative cables on the positive connections. Apparently that blew all 7 fuses that are
          located under the bed on that wall and above the transmission.  Fuses replaced and still no start..
          It  took a while before we found the cabling problem as the tech who did the cleaning was not involved in
          the diagnostic search
            After putting the negative cable back on the negative ground all gauges and lights came on
            and coach was able to start.
 
                                              I want to thank all for your help---Jim


Jim & Doreen
2003 U320

 "Too often I would hear men boast of the miles covered that day, rarely of what they had seen"
― Louis L'Amour

Re: Engine Cranks-won't start

Reply #10 –
Think you should name this shop,if they don't like it,oh well.This is another case to bring back the trade schools and auto shops,
this is also why those of us that can do these jobs ourselves.One more point,on these coaches red is not always positive and
black is not always negative.
96 U270 BUILD 4810
85 380SL
Drummonds TN.

Re: Engine Cranks-won't start

Reply #11 –
I hope they ate all the hours involved in resolution, paid for the parts needed, and compensated you for your time.  Should be a zero bill for ALL work after that.

Quote from: jtm2014 –
  Update: Success --it lives to see another trip ;)

    At the risk of being an idiot, but in the hopes that it may save someone else a headache:
          The tech who cleaned all chassis battery connections including the Positive and negative connections that are on
          the frame rail-had one of the negative cables on the positive connections. Apparently that blew all 7 fuses that are
          located under the bed on that wall and above the transmission.  Fuses replaced and still no start..
          It  took a while before we found the cabling problem as the tech who did the cleaning was not involved in
          the diagnostic search
            After putting the negative cable back on the negative ground all gauges and lights came on
            and coach was able to start.
 
                                              I want to thank all for your help---Jim



Dan - Full timing since 2009
2003 U320 40' Tag 2 slide

Re: Engine Cranks-won't start

Reply #12 –
 Cleaning the cable ends looks easy until you take them all off . Woops. I take pics and often paint the post and cables. Glad someone found it .

Re: Engine Cranks-won't start

Reply #13 –

    I try to do most of the work I can handle, but age prevents me from taking off the tires..  Don't have the strength anymore.
    On the brightside, if there is one, is that we needed to remove the CAC pipe that goes from turbo to CAC cooler,
      to access the fuses.
        Found two wire looms that must have been touching the pipe and it melted thru the protective plastic wire looms and
        in the very near future probably melting the wires.  Put a heavier protective loom and cable tied them out of the way.

        Something for people with a similar engine/configuration to check
            Thanks all-  Jim
Jim & Doreen
2003 U320

 "Too often I would hear men boast of the miles covered that day, rarely of what they had seen"
― Louis L'Amour