Power consumption question

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Power consumption question

May 03, 2018, 11:04:49 am

We are boondocking at the Petrified Forest in AZ. Whenever we boondock, we go to bed with the Magnum display showing about 14.2 v. We have NOTHING on. If we are near neighbors, and no generator on, when we wake up, we read below 12.2v!! Last night, with the refrigerator on gas, and only the Aqua Hot on, we had the generator on automatic. It came on at 2:30, 4;30, 6:00 and 7:30 and runs for about twenty minutes. We have three Lifeline's that are about 5 years old and three solar panels for 360 w, and it is a very clear, sunny morning here today. I had asked a few of the FT owners at Quartzite about this issue, and we didn't seem to get any clear understanding of what could be consuming the power, and what and HOW I might pursue tests that could lead me to an explanation. I bet someone out there can help me. Once again, thanks for your time.

Re: Power consumption question

Reply #1 – May 03, 2018, 11:37:49 am

The lifelines are coming to end of life. Right at the 5 year mark. Also even having the frig on gas, etc all coaches have many power consuming parasitic loads i.e. tv, audio to name a few on standby.

Re: Power consumption question

Reply #2 – May 03, 2018, 11:48:04 am

Lifelines should last longer than 5 years but it does sound like the 1st thing to check. Disconnect them all and have each one properly load tested. An electronic tester might tell you if one has failed but a carbon pile load tester is really a better test. If one of the 3 is bad, it could be pulling the others down. If so, leave it disconnected and you'll probably get better performance with the remaining 2.

Re: Power consumption question

Reply #3 – May 03, 2018, 11:55:03 am

Amprobe AMP-220 Clamp Meter: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
Invaluable tool, use it to see DC current going to, and coming from batteries and other AC and DC loads. A battery monitor like a Trimetric or Victron will tell you same, and more information if you want a permanent installation.

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: Power consumption question

Reply #4 – May 03, 2018, 11:59:05 am

Never seen 14.2 volts on the batteries without a charging source on, that would indicate a surface charge, 12.80-13.20 is a fully charged battery. If I'm not mistaken you have not owned that coach long therefore don't know how the house batteries have been treated which will dramatically effect the longevity. Not knowing what an aqua hot draws, my propane heaters will keep us warm all night and still show 12.40v in the morning. Also if you leave you inverter on it could be drawing 5-6 amps on standby. If you have Lifeline batteries you can equalize them it may help. Kind of sounds like they are getting weak.

Re: Power consumption question

Reply #5 – May 03, 2018, 12:38:53 pm

It's a pain, Glen, but do this in lieu of not having a load tester. Let the batteries charge then disconnect each from the others and from the motorhome. Let them sit for a couple hours and measure the voltage of each one. If one battery is bad it will have significantly lower voltage than the others. If there is no significant difference you'll have to start pulling fuses until you discover the leach.

Jim Churchill had the same problem and it turned out to be a battery.

Re: Power consumption question

Reply #6 – May 03, 2018, 12:44:30 pm

Thanks, everyone, for the good information. Now I have an idea of how to proceed.

Re: Power consumption question

Reply #7 – May 03, 2018, 03:04:38 pm

Glen, Do you have a Trimetric by Bogart Eng?

Re: Power consumption question

Reply #8 – May 03, 2018, 04:18:39 pm

Before doing the other tests, do the easiest one first. When connected to shore power and after a while of letting them charge up, go to the batteries and touch each one. If one is hot and the others are not, you have your bad battery.

Re: Power consumption question

Reply #9 – May 03, 2018, 07:08:26 pm

Bruce....you are correct. It was early and a typo

No, I do not have a Trimetric. It was suggested that I install one when we were at Quartzite in January. I guess I don't understand how the meter would tell me where the parasitic drain is occurring, if we have one. I believe that we do. I understand that there is always SOMETHING drawing battery power while we sleep, but I am drawing down WAY too quickly, with noting major on...i.e. tv, refrigerator etc. The Trimetric is on the " to do" list.

Does anyone know how I equalize the batteries?? I will reread the manual and call Lifeline.

Re: Power consumption question

Reply #10 – May 03, 2018, 08:24:37 pm

Glenn- it sounds like you might have a couple of issues here. The batteries are draining at night, I have no idea how much power Aquahot uses, but to have your auto gen start come on for only 20 minutes is an issue. If you batteries drop to 12.1 and the generator starts, it should run for several hours in order to charge the batteries properly. The settings on your auto generator start sound like they are off, which in turn does not charge your batteries, which can weaken them further.

Perhaps someone here can chime in on how to check and adjust the auto generator start settings, I know that it is beyond me except that I know your system is not working correctly.

Checking the batteries is also another great idea. A bad cell in 1 battery could take them all down.

Wishing you the best of luck figuring this out.

Re: Power consumption question

Reply #11 – May 03, 2018, 08:50:16 pm

I will take all the help I can get!!
I have the auto start set at 12.2
I thought it runs the generator until the float rate is reached???
I am learning about the electrical end of the coach on a daily basis. I was told to buy " Fundamental Electrical Troubleshooting" and I did......been reading it.
Electrical is not my strength, but I am determined to learn as much as I can now that we own the "Yacht". Thanks
Been watching YouTube videos about the Trimetric install and use. I will definitely install one.

Re: Power consumption question

Reply #12 – May 03, 2018, 08:59:52 pm

The controller for the auto start is programmable. If you have the manual there are dip pins to set the parameters. 20 minutes would not bring thee 8d's to float from 12.2 volts.

Re: Power consumption question

Reply #13 – May 03, 2018, 09:30:23 pm

If you have bad batteries that had low voltage and the generator starts to charge the battery's, after a short time it might show to have a good charge making the generator think the batteries are charged.

Until we find out if the batteries are good I think it is a mute point about the multi generator start and shut downs.

Re: Power consumption question

Reply #14 – May 03, 2018, 10:57:13 pm

Glen-Contact a local battery company and see if they will come to your site to Load Test your batteries. Had ours done like that in Tucson last year. About $150.00+/-. It was easier than taking the batteries to them. Once u know your battery health you can move on and try to locate some of your Phantom charge loss. You can then start pulling 12svc fuses to see what is drawing what. We did replace our house batteries - long story. Once we were sure our house bank was solid we tracked our usage using the Trimetric and a clock. At that point we determined that we will install 4 - L16s to increase our stored energy - to check with Phantom power.

Your electrical book is a good one for us neophytes. I keep reading it over and over again.

Re: Power consumption question

Reply #15 – May 04, 2018, 11:54:40 am

Thanks, all.
Last night, I turned off the inverter, as we don't seem to need 110 at night. Immediately, the ICE MAKER and the MICROWAVE shut off. DUH!! so obvious. Went to bed reading 12.7. Woke up with 12.4. I will monitor this next time we boondock, but I think I learned a lesson.
I also called Lifeline to see if I can safely equalize the batteries. Tech said yes, 15.5 to 16.3 for 8 hours. The Magnum manual instructs how to do this, but I would appreciate any "heads up " before I even try to do this. We do have 360 w of solar. At almost $2000, I don't want to screw up the batteries. Do you do this, and how often?? I have read that people equalize once a month??!! We "full time" almost 8 months of the year, and will do more and more boondocking. So much to learn.
Comments?

Re: Power consumption question

Reply #16 – May 04, 2018, 12:07:26 pm

Quote from: Carol & Scott – May 03, 2018, 10:57:13 pm

Glen-Contact a local battery company and see if they will come to your site to Load Test your batteries. Had ours done like that in Tucson last year. About $150.00+/-. It was easier than taking the batteries to them. Once u know your battery health you can move on and try to locate some of your Phantom charge loss. You can then start pulling 12svc fuses to see what is drawing what. We did replace our house batteries - long story. Once we were sure our house bank was solid we tracked our usage using the Trimetric and a clock. At that point we determined that we will install 4 - L16s to increase our stored energy - to check with Phantom power.

Your electrical book is a good one for us neophytes. I keep reading it over and over again.

You can buy a carbon pile tester to do it yourself for $50. It's slightly underrated for the capacity of the Lifelines but at 500 amps I think it's still an effective test. Might be as good or better than what the battery company would bring for a typical car battery test.

This one has worked well for me.
500 Amp Carbon Pile Load Tester

Re: Power consumption question

Reply #17 – May 04, 2018, 12:30:06 pm

Just be leary of the load tester,they do put a strain on your battery,some brain surgeons use them like a volt meter then wonder
why the battery died.

Re: Power consumption question

Reply #18 – May 04, 2018, 12:33:23 pm

You will need some where about 700-1000 watts of solar to greatly reduce generator run time. I gave up makeing ice we just buy it. We also make coffee with the old fashioned stove top pot. I also added a small inverter to run the tv and charge phones it's left on all the time. The only Time the generator is used is for heavy loads microwave, hair dryer, 40 hours generator time last year. Only 90 days in a camp ground total in 12 mos.

Re: Power consumption question

Reply #19 – May 04, 2018, 12:36:52 pm

Quote from: GleamB – May 04, 2018, 11:54:40 am

I also called Lifeline to see if I can safely equalize the batteries. Tech said yes, 15.5 to 16.3 for 8 hours. The Magnum manual instructs how to do this, but I would appreciate any "heads up " before I even try to do this.

First, it is a good idea to disconnect the coach loads before starting. Some of the PC boards might be very unhappy to see 15+ VDC. So, salesman switch OFF, pull fuse, disconnect absorption refrigerator, etc.

And, particularly with AGM's I would NOT equalize for that long. I use a cheap old Sears 6 amp battery charger. Start with batteries fully charged.

Hook up the charger and record voltage very half hour. When voltage no longer rises for 1.5 hours, you are finished.

Re: Power consumption question

Reply #20 – May 04, 2018, 09:53:25 pm

Brett,
Pull which fuse??

Re: Power consumption question

Reply #21 – May 05, 2018, 07:36:08 am

ALL of the fuses, then replace one at a time.

Re: Power consumption question

Reply #22 – May 05, 2018, 10:20:37 am

On my coach there is a main fuse under the bed that kills all the smaller dc fuses.

Re: Power consumption question

Reply #23 – May 05, 2018, 11:03:11 am

When solar charging is low or limited, we make enough ice during the day to last for several days, then we bag the cubes and put them in the propane fridge's freezer. This helps keep the battery from dying during the night. Your batteries are only about 50% discharged at 12.2 Volts. See the following chart:

Approximate
state-of-charge Open circuit voltage
100%     12.65
75%     12.45
50%     12.24
25%     12.06
0%     11.89

The open circuit voltage should only be measured after all loads are removed for an hour.

Re: Power consumption question

Reply #24 – May 05, 2018, 11:11:10 am

Just to clarify. While 12.2v with no
Load is 50% state of charge going below that on a lead acid battery will reduce its life dramatically if done on a regular basis.

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