VICTRON Multi - install advice/opinion

Topic: VICTRON Multi - install advice/opinion (Read 1405 times) previous topic - next topic

VICTRON Multi - install advice/opinion

May 10, 2018, 06:43:12 pm

I'm finally getting ready to install my updated inverter/charger/solar system and would appreciate some advice on setting up my Victron multi/3000 inverter/charger.

Let me start by admitting that while I can work with electronics it is NOT a strong point for me.
The over view of my new system:
6- ( I will probably add 2 or 4 more this summer) Lifeline L-16 -6v. batteries (400 ah)
4-300watt solar panels (may add one more panel (300w)
All Victron accessories ( including color monitor) and a Victron solid state battery isolater.
Victron 85amp solar controler.
Everything except the batteries were purchased from Allen at Bay Marine, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND HIM!!!!!

My question is this, I have the option to run everything through the inverter charger meaning I would not need the factory transfer switch the Victron has one built in. If I run everything directly through the Victron it can boost low a/c current with the battery bank or start the generator if needed. It looks like new a/c cable would need to be run from the 50amp a/c street input to the inverter than back to the breaker panel on the bed pedestal.
I could just hook up the Victron with the current factory wiring and use the transfer switch that's all ready there, I would sacrifice some of the positive features on the Victron however.
The batteries and the Victron are relocated in the small storage bay, the cable rack runs next to and above the Vicron so the large cables are close by and accessible

Many of you have this Victron Multi-plus 3000 installed on your coaches. How and why did you set yours up, and would you do anything different now that you have lived with it for awhile.
As always, I greatly appreciate your advice.

Re: VICTRON Multi - install advice/opinion

Reply #1 – May 10, 2018, 08:37:38 pm

Hi Lon,

The thing that needs to happen for you to use the Victron Multiplus as a full powered transfer switch is that the 120v wiring needs to be upsized to handle 50 amps. None of that is a problem except in my coach the space in the sub floor between the bedroom cabinet with the drawers and TV and the electronics space at the foot of the bed is already pretty full. There may be a similar passage through the floor structure on the other side. In any case as is is wired now when you are connected to a 50 amp land line the current transfer switch allows the full 50 amp leg to power the inverter circuits.

You can wait (as I have) and it will all work as is just fine. I am hoping to get at it one of these first days. 🔨🔜.

Let me know if I can help, I just did this all last summer. A good plan helps.

Re: VICTRON Multi - install advice/opinion

Reply #2 – May 10, 2018, 09:40:48 pm

Roger is as always right on - the reason for that is the OEM inverter could only pass through 30 Amps - so to get 50Amps to the coach there are two transfer switches - one for shore power and one for the inverter - since the OEM inverter could only handle 30 Amps, that is what the wires on the AC output side of the OEM inverter are sized for - to handle the full 50 AMPS of pass through the AC output wires need to be upsized

Besides getting rid of a transfer switch (point of failure, hum annoyance) your Victron switches so fast that most electronics ride through the switchover - especially handy if you have a satellite receiver.

I recently replaced my 3 O'Rielly 8D batteries with 4 Lifeline L-16. According to O'Reilly Web site, 3 of the 8D's come in at 735 Amp Hours. Per AM Solar, 4 Lifeline L16"s are 800 Amp Hours. Could have fit 6 L-16's in the space, but AM solar was saying that it would be tight and probably drive up the cost.

I have a perfectly good generator, 1180 watts of solar on the roof and the desire to stay where it is sunny and a proclivity to go to campgrounds as ofter as not - so for me, the 4 L-16's will be fine - your mileage may vary, but 6 is really neat and 10 would be stupid cool. AM Solar made a BIG deal about the need to have the cables the same length between the batteries (I am not the expert, just the messenger) o adding batteries to my recently abandoned propane compartment (went induction this spring at the mothership) seemed also to not be worth the hassle and cost (for me).

As Dave M said - do what makes you happy! Congrats on a cool planned upgrade.

Tim Fiedler

Sure Start Soft Start - home of SureStart soft starters TCER Direct - home of Generac Approved Aluminum and Copper TCER Composite cable generator-gas-prod - home of X-Riser Gas Risers for PE installation Call me at 630 240-9139
Gen-Pro

Re: VICTRON Multi - install advice/opinion

Reply #3 – May 10, 2018, 09:41:51 pm

Thanks Roger,

I'm trying to weigh the benefit of using every feature the Victron offers as opposed to going with what I already have in the factory set-up. Is the effort worth the gain?

If everything is run through the Victron and there is a problem in the future I could more easily isolate the problem as being the Victron. If I leave everything the way it is it becomes a search through all the components spread out the RV.
Of course, If everything is up to the Victron all my eggs are in one basket, a problem would require the Victron to be removed and shipped for repair or replacement.
Using all the Victron features does appeal to me, I like to get my moneys worth.

Re: VICTRON Multi - install advice/opinion

Reply #4 – May 10, 2018, 10:00:42 pm

Thanks Tim,

My thought for more batteries is several scenarios .
From my research as to what others have done always seem to lead to not enough battery storage as the weak link.
Since I park the RV in my yard only several yards from the house I think of the possibility of being able to use the battery bank for the house either in an emergency or for a solar application combined with the solar on the RV and additional panels installed on the house.

Its funny, When I camp I always look for the shadiest camp spot. I also still like your idea about having a quite inverter generator available especially since the solar and batteries are impractical to run the A/C.

Re: VICTRON Multi - install advice/opinion

Reply #5 – May 11, 2018, 07:50:20 am

Using all of the features of the Victron including the boost from the inverter while landline connected (especially with 30 amps) is worth doing but it can be a separate project to upgrade the wiring. Sometime expanding the scope of a project pushes it from doable to overwhelming. I waited but will get it done.

Re: VICTRON Multi - install advice/opinion

Reply #6 – May 11, 2018, 05:49:50 pm

I have decided to utilize all the Vicron features so, I will be doing the re-wire.
As I see it, I need to pull a new line from the coach pedestal connection to the A/C input on the Vicron (NM 4/3)
then from the Vicron to the breaker box (NM 4/3) bypassing the transfer switch.
I'm not clear on how the generator ties in.

Re: VICTRON Multi - install advice/opinion

Reply #7 – May 11, 2018, 10:18:09 pm

are you planing on using the auto start from the VIctron? Do you already have auto start? Since I already have auto tart on Generator I left it as is - there is a sense wire on the batteries for my OEM auto start - still works fine - decided good enough, AM solar agreed

Tim Fiedler

Sure Start Soft Start - home of SureStart soft starters TCER Direct - home of Generac Approved Aluminum and Copper TCER Composite cable generator-gas-prod - home of X-Riser Gas Risers for PE installation Call me at 630 240-9139
Gen-Pro

Re: VICTRON Multi - install advice/opinion

Reply #8 – May 11, 2018, 10:21:03 pm

Let me look at the wiring and I will send you what I think.

I think it may only be the 120v wiring from the Victron back to the inverter sub panel. You might have to do the 120 wiring from the main panel to the Victron, it is 30 amp wiring.

Roger

Re: VICTRON Multi - install advice/opinion

Reply #9 – May 11, 2018, 10:27:45 pm

On mine - the OEM wiring from the batteries to he Victron was marginal for 3000W output of the Victron - AM Solar upgraded at install - not sure if that was necessary or a "Nice to Have"

Tim Fiedler

Sure Start Soft Start - home of SureStart soft starters TCER Direct - home of Generac Approved Aluminum and Copper TCER Composite cable generator-gas-prod - home of X-Riser Gas Risers for PE installation Call me at 630 240-9139
Gen-Pro

Re: VICTRON Multi - install advice/opinion

Reply #10 – May 11, 2018, 10:53:33 pm

I also had the 12 volt cables from invertor to batteries upgraded by AM Solar. I left the ATS and 110 volt wiring as was.

Quote from: Tim Fiedler – May 11, 2018, 10:27:45 pm

On mine - the OEM wiring from the batteries to he Victron was marginal for 3000W output of the Victron - AM Solar upgraded at install - not sure if that was necessary or a "Nice to Have"

Tim Fiedler

Re: VICTRON Multi - install advice/opinion

Reply #11 – May 11, 2018, 11:04:40 pm

Same - left ATS and 110 wiring as is - since it ran anything I needed with the 2.5KW inverter, but if it was EASY to run new 110 I would have, because getting rid of the transfer switch would have been a good thing to do - thought it ouwld add 6-8 hours to the labor tab plus a few $$ in material and figured it wasn't worth it - if ATS goes out I might do it then...

Tim Fiedler

Sure Start Soft Start - home of SureStart soft starters TCER Direct - home of Generac Approved Aluminum and Copper TCER Composite cable generator-gas-prod - home of X-Riser Gas Risers for PE installation Call me at 630 240-9139
Gen-Pro

Re: VICTRON Multi - install advice/opinion

Reply #12 – May 12, 2018, 02:52:42 am

We'll be getting our Foretravel within a few days so I don't have any experience with this coach specifically, but I'd highly recommend AM Solar for Technical and Materials. We're using All Victron Solar and Battery Components with Bluetooth, and also using a Magnum 2800 Inverter, along with 1080W of AM Solar's panels, and 660AH Lifeline Batteries....what a great system . We have 30 Amp Pass through, and for us it's perfect, we have everything available to us, except AC while boondocking. Our System was installed by RV Solar Solutions, they are trained by AM and only use AM Materials. Now we'll need to do it all again soon for our new to us Foretravel. Good luck with your system.

Re: VICTRON Multi - install advice/opinion

Reply #13 – May 12, 2018, 04:02:05 am

Quote from: Tim Fiedler – May 11, 2018, 10:18:09 pm

are you planing on using the auto start from the VIctron? Do you already have auto start? Since I already have auto tart on Generator I left it as is - there is a sense wire on the batteries for my OEM auto start - still works fine - decided good enough, AM solar agreed

Tim Fiedler

Sure Start Soft Start - home of SureStart soft starters TCER Direct - home of Generac Approved Aluminum and Copper TCER Composite cable generator-gas-prod - home of X-Riser Gas Risers for PE installation Call me at 630 240-9139
Gen-Pro

I have the factory installed auto start. I would like to use the auto start on the Victron. The sense wire was located at the House batteries, correct?

Re: VICTRON Multi - install advice/opinion

Reply #14 – May 12, 2018, 04:13:33 am

Yes, there was a sense wire at battery for current auto start - but it didn't go towards the Victron - it went to the generator compartment I believe

Tim Fiedler

Sure Start Soft Start - home of SureStart soft starters TCER Direct - home of Generac Approved Aluminum and Copper TCER Composite cable generator-gas-prod - home of X-Riser Gas Risers for PE installation Call me at 630 240-9139
Gen-Pro

Re: VICTRON Multi - install advice/opinion

Reply #15 – May 12, 2018, 05:59:08 pm

Using the Victron 120v/3000VA Multiplus as a switching relay and pass through to the inverter circuits.

From the Victron installation manual for the 120v 3000VA Multiplus :

• AC-in
The AC input must be protected by a fuse or magnetic circuit breaker rated at 50A or less, and cable cross-section must
be sized accordingly. If the input AC supply is rated at a lower value, the fuse or magnetic circuit breaker should be down sized
accordingly.
• AC-out
With its PowerAssist feature the Multi can add up to 3kVA (that is 3000 / 230 = 13A) to the output during periods of peak power
requirement. Together with a maximum input current of 50A this means that the output can supply up to 50 + 13 = 63A.
An earth leakage circuit breaker and a fuse or circuit breaker rated to support the expected load must be included in
series with the output, and cable cross-section must be sized accordingly. The maximum rating of the fuse or circuit breaker
is 63A.

So on our coach circuit #8 on the main panel is wired from the factory with #12 wire and a 20 amp fuse. In order to fully power the Multiplus 120v/3000VA the input could be fused up to 50 amps with #6 wire.

The original inverter wiring to Switching Relay#2 wiring is #10. If you are using the maximum possible pass through from the Victron 120v/3000VA Multiplus at 50 Amps and the PowerAssist adding up to 13 additional amps you could be sending 63 amps to Circuit Breaker Box #2. That means you need a 65 amp breaker in Circuit Breaker Box #2 and 4 ga wire.

Since that box is fused for 50 amps then that should be the maximum you send to it from the Multiplus with the PowerAssist. That means fusing the Circuit #8 to the Multiplus for 35 amps with #8 wire and the output from the VictronMultiplus should be fused for 50 amps and use #6 wire.

Isolate Switching Relay #2, The Multiplus takes over for it. The output side of the inverter now goes to the input side of the 50 amp breaker in Circuit Breaker Box #2.

This is how I am reading it, I think it is right. I am not entirely sure what this says. "An earth leakage circuit breaker and a fuse or circuit breaker rated to support the expected load must be included in series with the output,". does that suggest another breaker closer to the Victron? Maybe one of the electricians will chime in.

Re: VICTRON Multi - install advice/opinion

Reply #16 – May 13, 2018, 03:55:28 am

Thanks Roger!

Re: VICTRON Multi - install advice/opinion

Reply #17 – May 17, 2018, 07:53:42 am

I installed a victron multiplus 3000 on my previous sailboat. It was a bear to install due to the wire size and the lugs on the inverter are small, difficult to get the wire in with tight bends too. Didn't have a generator there so did not use the relay.

On our current coach, (purchased 2 days ago!) it has a multiplus with 600 AH Lithium iron batteries and 1500 watts of solar, done by AM solar. They did not install the generator start for some reason. The ATS is replaced with a manual switch under the bed. It is safer that way but would like to have the ats on the inverter work. Not sure why it was done that way. One of the things I want to do is to hook up the automatic generator start at some point. Was going to put another multiplus in series for 220v and twice the charging capacity, but decided not to. The coach is all electric with no propane, and was going to put a double hob induction in, which needs 240v, currently has 1 120v hob. But I think it will work fine. Not sure if AM solar changed out the old wire, but I suspect they did. Will have to check that as well.

Quote

This is how I am reading it, I think it is right. I am not entirely sure what this says. "An earth leakage circuit breaker and a fuse or circuit breaker rated to support the expected load must be included in series with the output,". does that suggest another breaker closer to the Victron? Maybe one of the electricians will chime in.

Roger, I read that as a GFCI breaker between the inverter and the loads. On my boat that meant a 50 amp breaker at the main panel.
Bob

Re: VICTRON Multi - install advice/opinion

Reply #18 – May 17, 2018, 09:06:18 am

Bob, that is what I figured. I have to see how you would use a GFCI circuit breaker in the coach. Not sure if it is the same as a house.

Here is a picture of my Multiplus installed. There are four 3/0 cables going into the inverter. I thought it was pretty easy especially compared to new Xantrex I installed just a week later in another coach. 2 3/0 cables are plenty big enough. The fine stranded SOOW type cables are pretty easy to bend into position.

Re: VICTRON Multi - install advice/opinion

Reply #19 – May 17, 2018, 08:06:41 pm

My thoughts to simplify the wiring would be to run a 4/3 wire from the pedestal plug in to the inverter then 4/3 wire from the inverter to the main breaker box but to replace the main breakers with something to handle 63 amps. Bypassing the Foretravel installed transfer switch and factory cabling.
I would like to keep a AGS system for my generator. My question now is how to wire it.
From reading over and over my Victron info. It appears the AGS can be signaled at the Inverter, or the Color monitor, or the 700 battery gauge. I'm trying now to contact somebody at Victron to advise me on what each option would afford me and to oversee the install.
I can't seem to locate the AGS wiring on my Foretravel wiring schematics.

Re: VICTRON Multi - install advice/opinion

Reply #20 – May 17, 2018, 10:24:00 pm

Lon, maybe better think that through a bit. The land line and the generator go through one transfer switch to the main panel. 120 v goes from there to the inverter which charged the batteries, amd passes through 120v to the secondary panel with the inverter circuits. The Multiplus will back off charging and invert to add to the pass through as needed.

This way either the land line or the generator powers the primary circuits and the pass through powers the second panel. If no land line or generator then the inverter kicks in and powers the secondary panel and the inverter powered circuits.

Re: VICTRON Multi - install advice/opinion

Reply #21 – May 18, 2018, 04:50:21 am

I better get on a first name basis with somebody at Victron.

Re: VICTRON Multi - install advice/opinion

Reply #22 – May 18, 2018, 05:45:08 am

Quote from: Lon and Cheryl – May 18, 2018, 04:50:21 am

I better get on a first name basis with somebody at Victron.

Good luck with that. Although they do respond to direct questions at times, I found them to be not to responsive when I needed them. Open letter to victron That link will take you to a very frustrated post that I put on the sailing and cruising forums. I found the unit to be very difficult to install then. The marine wires I used were tinned, and still but appropriately sized for the load, but the way they had it designed meant a difficult install. Maybe they changed the design. If so, I hope I had some help in that.

Roger I used 4/0 cable when I wired it up due to thin plate pure lead batteries that would take a lot of current. I used 6 gauge wire for the 120 volt part and had a bear of a time to get it to bend to where it needed to go. Looks a bit different on yours.
Glad this time I didn't have to install it. But now have to figure out how to wire the automatic generator start.....
Bob

Re: VICTRON Multi - install advice/opinion

Reply #23 – May 18, 2018, 07:38:46 am

It sounds like there should be a circuit breaker box just downstream of the Mulitiplus 120v output. It mighe be easier to wire up the 120v connections on the bench with 1 or 2 ft long wires. Once the Multiplus is installed the 120v wires can go into the CB box and final connections made there where there is more room.

On the 12v side, Victron had a wire cross section area for the 12v wiring at full loads. It was just slightly bigger than a 4/0 cable so I used 2 3/0 cables for the + and - sides. Easier to get into place. They go to the big common posts behind the white panel (at least in my coach) where the house batteries connect as well as a pair of 3/0 neg cables and a 3/0 and a 4/0 pos cable from the isolator.

The Multiplus I installed was in the basement where the prior inverter was located and wired in place. It was pretty easy for me.

Re: VICTRON Multi - install advice/opinion

Reply #24 – May 18, 2018, 09:26:48 am

Anyone install/need a external cooling fan on these units? I seem to remember seeing pictures of Foretravel wall mount units having them?

Affiliate Notice