Slow seeping leak: Hydraulic Pump

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Slow seeping leak: Hydraulic Pump

June 14, 2018, 12:02:31 am

Have a slow seep leak at Hydraulic Pump. Not wet. But it does show as darkened surface on frame member below the pump. Last year when we first got coach the belt had been shredding one rib off every 600-800 miles. Cummins shimmed the pump bracket to correct the misalignment. Was out by almost 1/8 inch. Nothing about a leak at that time and I don't recall seeing any evidence either. 1500 miles later now. Belt alignment fine but this leak is detected last week when at Oregon Motor Coach for other work.

Called FOT for pump. $1800. Discussed having a rebuild done but OMC says it can take weeks to get pump back. OMC shop supervisor says new pump from source other than FOT would be less $$$ but they have been unable to find one from their vendors.

Anyone know a good source for a hydraulic pump. new or exchange rebuild?? I hope to have a photo of pump ID plate tomorrow. I recall OMC saying it was a Sauer.... (may be misspelled)

Re: Slow seeping leak: Hydraulic Pump

Reply #1 – June 14, 2018, 12:31:57 am

More than likely it just needs to be resealed, any decent hyd shop should be able to handle that. Also at the risk
of jinxing myself those seals will weep slightly for years sometimes.

Re: Slow seeping leak: Hydraulic Pump

Reply #2 – June 14, 2018, 07:02:35 am

Have the same issue it seems on inspection. My plan was to wait and see. If needed, will put some stop leak into the system run for 300 miles or so, drain, and refill. If it still leaks, I will take it to a hydraulic shop here in Corpus Christi and see about getting the seals changed.
Let us know what you do please.

Re: Slow seeping leak: Hydraulic Pump

Reply #3 – June 14, 2018, 08:45:09 am

Bob,

Yours is actually leaking enough that I would strongly recommend pursuing the "new seals" route. When they leave a puddle of oil on the ground, it is time to address the issue.

Re: Slow seeping leak: Hydraulic Pump

Reply #4 – June 14, 2018, 08:50:03 am

You might try Lucas"Hydraulic Oil Booster with Stop Leak" to see if it buys you some time. I used that for a while until the leak eventually needed to be fixed. I took the pump into a local Houston hydraulic shop that cleaned it up & replaced the seals for under $300. Dropped it off 1 day & picked it up the next. Removal of the pulley required an impact wrench and the hydraulic lines require large open end wrenches but there's nothing complicated about it. That's also a good time to change the fluid, filter & tank seal.

Amazon.com: Lucas 10018 Hydraulic Oil Booster with Stop Leak Gallon: Automotive

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: Slow seeping leak: Hydraulic Pump

Reply #5 – June 14, 2018, 09:07:44 am

If there's anything in a bottle that will fix it the Lucas is the ticket I used it in a steering box and it got me through five more years.

Re: Slow seeping leak: Hydraulic Pump

Reply #6 – June 14, 2018, 01:45:58 pm

Many members have used additives like Lucas to stop leaks. Our pump may certainly be a candidate for such a solution. I do have a long standing prejudice against adding fix it in a bottle. This situation will require me to reevaluate that position. I have no problem using fuel additive to combat algae during the winter months. So why not try Lucas for the hydraulic pump?....

My preference is to replace the seals. Going out to coach today to try for some pictures. Then try to find a good hydraulic shop in or near Southern Oregon that can work on my model of pump. If turn around time is quick then going out of state is an option. Want to get everything lined up before shop pulls things apart. Probably should replace the tensioner at same time too.

For now the shop tech gave me this info from the pump:

Sauer- Sunstrand
Type- 41188
Date code- 00E

Are these units rare? Hard to find a repair shop?

Re: Slow seeping leak: Hydraulic Pump

Reply #7 – June 14, 2018, 02:22:58 pm

Some details of the pump may be specific to Foretravel and therefore an OEM replacement pump may not be easy to find. So, the pump itself might be considered rare but the seals are not. I was told by Foretravel that my seals were not serviceable and the entire pump needed to be replaced. That was not the case. It was easy to find a shop that could replace the seals. They also checked all of the internals while they had it apart and had no concerns about wear, etc. It's been working fine for over 2 years now.

Re: Slow seeping leak: Hydraulic Pump

Reply #8 – June 14, 2018, 05:13:18 pm

Quote from: bdale – June 14, 2018, 02:22:58 pm

Some details of the pump may be specific to Foretravel and therefore an OEM replacement pump may not be easy to find.

Agree! Foretravel is infamous for sourcing obscure, rare and pricey hydraulic pumps to power the fan systems in their coaches. There is no rhyme or reason as to what type pump is used on what coach. Two identical model coaches built only a couple of "build numbers" apart can have totally different hydraulic pumps. You will need every bit of information from the pump data plate to have any hope of finding either a replacement pump or the parts to rebuild it. As noted above, some pumps can be refreshed by any competent hydraulic repair shop. Other pumps may be more of a challenge.

To illustrate my point, see my thread linked below for my pump rebuilding adventure. Although your pump is a totally different brand and design, you may get a feeling for what can be involved in chasing down the parts to renew some of these old pumps.

Vickers V10 Hydraulic Pump Rebuild

Re: Slow seeping leak: Hydraulic Pump

Reply #9 – June 14, 2018, 07:53:20 pm

Quote from: bdale – June 14, 2018, 02:22:58 pm

Some details of the pump may be specific to Foretravel and therefore an OEM replacement pump may not easy to find. So, the pump itself might be considered rare but the seals are not. I was told by Foretravel that my seals were not serviceable and the entire pump needed to be replaced.

Thanks! Good to know. (Except the part about odd ball Foretravel parts!) No wonder the OMC shop foreman couldn't find this pump. I found a "Sunstrand" hydraulic pump company in Tennessee, "Moore Pumps" Family biz and they knew a lot about Sunstrand. The ID plate numbers I gave him matched nothing. But they claim to have lots of parts, hopefully including seals. They asked for photos to help identify pump.

The name plate photo is fuzzy but I could confirm what shop told me, Sauer- Sunstrand, Type- 41188, Date code- 00E. However, I also found a stamping on the body, another fuzzy photo but in person clearly reads, 40998. (Moore parts guy hasn't seen this one)
Pulled the belt and tensioner back to see the seepage, (photo). Doesn't seem like much to me. But I've no experience with hydraulic pumps.

Texting photos to cell phone of my contact at Moore Pumps.

Re: Slow seeping leak: Hydraulic Pump

Reply #10 – June 14, 2018, 09:00:39 pm

Call C-2 Hydraulics in Klamath Falls at 541-883-3434, Albert can fix you up.

Re: Slow seeping leak: Hydraulic Pump

Reply #11 – June 14, 2018, 10:16:39 pm

Chuck,
Read your pump rebuild link a few months ago. Didn't know then I'd be delving into pump on our coach. Thanks for the info.

OMC shop foreman told me they had a coach in for a new pump that had to have parts machined in Europe. Took 8 weeks to get parts. My only consolation, It wasn't a Foretravel. He recalls it as a Monaco. He has seen some coaches where only six had the same pump. He didn't give out names. I was afraid to ask.

His opinion of older coaches is that Foretravel wasn't the only manufacturer making short term decisions that sometimes can become a long term problem. What about changing the OEM pump to some other manufacturer? He believes this has significant risks unless one has the time and engineering knowledge to match pump specifications to whatever the hydraulic pump runs. Fabricating the mounting etc. I know somebody can certainly do it. I just hope I never have to go looking for them.

Quote from: NancyS – June 14, 2018, 09:00:39 pm

Call C-2 Hydraulics in Klamath Falls at 541-883-3434, Albert can fix you up.

Thank you Nancy, I'll give them a call tomorrow. Very much appreciated all.

Re: Slow seeping leak: Hydraulic Pump

Reply #12 – June 14, 2018, 11:23:19 pm

Rpm and displacement which can be bench measured. It's just a hydraulic pump then start looking for mounting and shaft sizes. Should get you into + or - 5%.

Re: Slow seeping leak: Hydraulic Pump

Reply #13 – June 15, 2018, 12:25:35 am

I had to replace the seal on my '96 Monaco Sig. pump. Took the seal out and measured the shaft and the inside diameter of the housing and the thickness of the seal. Found a metric seal as a almost perfect match. It fixed the leak, afterwards met a man who worked for National seals and he told me that they have a program to make an individual seal to customers measurements. Haven't needed to check it out but, could save some time waiting for a obsolete part.

Re: Slow seeping leak: Hydraulic Pump

Reply #14 – June 15, 2018, 01:41:16 am

We had a noticeable discharge from the rad fan motor. MOT quoted an obscure replacement motor on the high side of $3K, installed. Whew.

I called around and Berndt's place in NAC rebuilt both of our hydraulic motors overnight. We put some new hose connections on and got out for less than half of MOT's quote. I get a kick out of B's place. Always some interesting iron around there. My fans are clean and fannin'! Floor it.

Re: Slow seeping leak: Hydraulic Pump

Reply #15 – June 15, 2018, 12:01:12 pm

Brad at FOT parts. Our hydraulic pump is used on U series coaches up to 2006. They have two in stock and sell 1-2 per year. Price with Motorcade discount $1783.00 plus shipping. Pumps performance/specifications unique to FT, as others have commented on.

The skinny from Moore Hydraulic Pumps: The FT pump on our coach made by Sauer-Sunstrand is a gear pump. At time of original build, Sauer-Sunstrand, was only in the gear hydraulic pump market for a short time. No internal parts are readily available primarily because they were manufactured for such a short period of time. Moore claims to have extensive inventory of older Sunstrand pumps, just not this one. He believes FT is getting their replacement pumps from an independent supplier who refurbishes and or manufactures small quantities. That could explain the black hole that opens up whenever the specifics of my pump are discussed with potential vendors. Moore did say it is possible for them to build one but not without the specific performance specs that FT requires. With that info, best case on new pump from them is we save 200-300$.

As members have posted here: The seals are most likely available. A competent shop can make this repair. But it will be a remove and measure to see what fits. Time is becoming an issue. In four weeks my wife has a 3 month leave from her employer. We depart Southern Oregon for upstate New York and wandering about points in between. She is the pilot, I get to bite the coach buck. Ordering a new pump. Sigh.

Re: Slow seeping leak: Hydraulic Pump

Reply #16 – June 15, 2018, 12:33:48 pm

Sunstrand/Sauer is owned by Danfoss. Check Danfoss resources.

In fact, I think it is now known as Sauer/Danfoss.

Re: Slow seeping leak: Hydraulic Pump

Reply #17 – June 15, 2018, 12:44:09 pm

Quote from: Twig – June 15, 2018, 12:33:48 pm

Sunstrand/Sauer is owned by Danfoss. Check Danfoss resources.

In fact, I think it is now known as Sunstrand/Danfoss.

Thanks Twig,
Your correct. Danfoss bought Sunstrand or visa versa. Anyway, we checked the Danfoss stock, cross referencing. nothing listed on our specific pump. Numbers probably unique to FT. At least we know someone is still making/refurbishing 1-2 pumps a year to FT specs. I wonder who? Even if we found them, I doubt they would cut out FT to sell direct to us.

Re: Slow seeping leak: Hydraulic Pump

Reply #18 – June 15, 2018, 01:18:34 pm

How many fans do you have?

Re: Slow seeping leak: Hydraulic Pump

Reply #19 – June 15, 2018, 01:26:27 pm

Darn it Twig. You asked something I should know and do know but haven't had to look at recently. Makes me feel slightly senile.

I'll find out ASAP.

Re: Slow seeping leak: Hydraulic Pump

Reply #20 – June 15, 2018, 01:42:56 pm

He has two.

Re: Slow seeping leak: Hydraulic Pump

Reply #21 – June 16, 2018, 07:20:10 am

I ran my coach for 10 years with the level of leak your pic shows. I finally had Berndt change the seals.

Re: Slow seeping leak: Hydraulic Pump

Reply #22 – June 16, 2018, 09:24:08 am

Then you need the same pump as I bought. When it quits raining I'll go see what I can find out about it. I replaced the one that came on the Foretravel. Not sure if you want a replacement or seals.

I had a Barnes sumpthin or other and had the seal replaced. When I put it back on it leaked worse than before. 800 bucks and I sleep good at night. I did all the work myself, though.

Re: Slow seeping leak: Hydraulic Pump

Reply #23 – June 16, 2018, 11:39:05 am

Same as Twig. I replaced seals and it leaked as soon as I put oil in. Took it back and they re-replaced the seals and it held until I was about 100 miles down the road.

Besides being stranded by the side of the road cleaning 5 gallons of oil off your car is no fun!

I found out later that my case drain on the hydraulic motor was clogged. This could have caused a huge back pressure on the pump blowing out the seal. Be sure to check your motor (fan) case drain. To test pull case drain hose off motor and blow through it. Should hear/feel it bubbling in the reservoir. If you can't blow anything it's clogged. (hope you like the taste of Delo 400!)

Search 'hydraulic pump' user: kenhat to see my long sad story.

see ya
ken

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