Exterior RV outlet

Topic: Exterior RV outlet (Read 1350 times) previous topic - next topic

Exterior RV outlet

June 30, 2018, 03:04:46 pm

I am going to put an exterior 50 A electrical outlet on the front of the coach house. They make a 20/30/50 combo box but their $150 with breakers. Did not see a 50 A with breaker at Menards. Breaker might be nice if you had company, and had to leave garage locked. Is it common to trip the 50 A. Standard 50 is $28. Will also put a 20A there for other uses.

Re: Exterior RV outlet

Reply #1 – June 30, 2018, 03:51:46 pm

Quote from: Old phart phred – June 30, 2018, 03:04:46 pm

They make a 20/30/50 combo box but their $150 with breakers.

My opinion: spend the coin and do it right (combo box with breakers for all outlets). Even if you don't ever use the 30A, your successor might...

Re: Exterior RV outlet

Reply #2 – June 30, 2018, 04:53:21 pm

I guess my assumption was anybody traveling with a 30 Amp rig would carry a 50 amp adapter. And I hate spending money on something that never gets used. Are the 30 Amp rigs just 3 wire H N G?

Re: Exterior RV outlet

Reply #3 – June 30, 2018, 04:57:51 pm

Quote from: Old phart phred – June 30, 2018, 04:53:21 pm

Are the 30 Amp rigs just 3 wire H N G?

YES.

So, you would pull out 4 wires:
2 hots (opposite side of the box so 240 between them)
Neutral
Ground

The 50 would use both hots, the 30 only one.

Yes, if you have room in your house breaker box you could pull a separate hot and neutral for the 30-- would probably do that if it is a short run/low cost.

Re: Exterior RV outlet

Reply #4 – June 30, 2018, 06:15:13 pm

Phred, if you need a disconnect on the outside use one of these AC disconnects along with a 50 amp outlet. There are some cheaper outlets with plastic covers. You can do the same with 30 amp disconnects and outlets. I have 2 50 amp boxes each on their own breakers on the side of my shop and 2 30 amp boxes on their own breakers in the barn. My circuit breakers are on the panels in the shop or barn

You can get a short 50 amp to 30 amp adapter cable.

Re: Exterior RV outlet

Reply #5 – June 30, 2018, 07:48:08 pm

Hmm since the 30 is just a 3 wire plug I might find other uses for it. 120 v Plasma cutter, saws, my chop saw which constantly causing nusuance trips, or maybe a 120 mig welder. Dang it now you got me thinking again 8 space 100 a sub panel between the doors just inside add a ground rod and have all the power I want for tools. EV charging station.

Re: Exterior RV outlet

Reply #6 – June 30, 2018, 08:30:14 pm

I put 200 amp service to the shop and a 40 slot panel. Just about every machine is on its own circuit. Not many open slots left. Go for it!

Re: Exterior RV outlet

Reply #7 – June 30, 2018, 09:36:46 pm

Looks for two small outdoor electric boxes, one for breaker and one for outlet. You MUST have a way to easily turn off a 50-amp outlet BEFORE plugging in or disconnecting, to prevent accidental 220-volts where you don't want it.

Re: Exterior RV outlet

Reply #8 – June 30, 2018, 09:53:38 pm

Quote from: Barry & Cindy – June 30, 2018, 09:36:46 pm

Looks for two small outdoor electric boxes, one for breaker and one for outlet. You MUST have a way to easily turn off a 50-amp outlet BEFORE plugging in or disconnecting, to prevent accidental 220-volts where you don't want it.

How would this happen? Newbie to RV electrical.

Re: Exterior RV outlet

Reply #9 – June 30, 2018, 10:25:26 pm

A disconnect does the same thing. They use them for your AC, water pumps and more. Using a breaker as a switch is fine if it is close by.

Re: Exterior RV outlet

Reply #10 – June 30, 2018, 10:53:42 pm

I have a home built pedastal checker based on this forums advise. Cords are usually considered a disconnect device. Will be buying a progressive EMS unit for the coach. Kill the loads in the coach, except paraseptic prior to connection. Did I miss something in best practices? Having lost the nuetral going into my residence a few years ago I got a first-hand view of the chaos that ensued, quite a light show as I scrambled in the kitchen to uplug the expensive stuff. Everything attempted to go to 240 seeking a path to ground.

Re: Exterior RV outlet

Reply #11 – July 01, 2018, 01:14:10 am

You are aware of the evils of 240 volts where there should be 120 volts. If one plugs in a 50 plug into a hot outlet at such an angle that momentarily the two side prongs go in BEFORE the center prong, BINGO...220 volts. Easy to happen, especially with worn or dirty outlets and plugs. Turn off before pulling or pushing a 50-amp plug.

Re: Exterior RV outlet

Reply #12 – July 01, 2018, 01:29:14 am

Thanks for the info. Maybe a best practices sticky note on this, if it's not already there. will the progressive EMS react fast enough to catch this as the voltage is hunting? Quick edit can you turn most pedestals off as you hook up?

Re: Exterior RV outlet

Reply #13 – July 01, 2018, 08:44:50 am

Quote from: Old phart phred – July 01, 2018, 01:29:14 am

Quick edit can you turn most pedestals off as you hook up?

That's what the breakers are for. Campground pedestal breakers should always be left in the OFF position. Plug in (with either your power cord or your portable EMS), then turn breaker on. When you are leaving, turn breaker off, then pull the plug. Leave breakers OFF for the next guy.

Re: Exterior RV outlet

Reply #14 – July 01, 2018, 09:19:58 am

Just put in one myself. This is what I used. Amazon Was somewhat difficult to instal as I have a older outdoor panel. Lowes only sold 2 gauge wire in black. Had to tape different colored electrical tape to differentiate the wires. Now I have the ability to use either 30 or 50 amp Plus have a dedicated 20 amp outlet with gfci. Wife has a plug in hybrid so that is one of the reasons I used this on. I would not put in one without the breakers. That would be foolish. Also had to use a 100 amp breaker at the main box. So all told, $300 bucks or so. Electrician would have charged me $ 1 coach buck or more. Do yourself a favor and do it right.
Bob

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Re: Exterior RV outlet

Reply #15 – July 01, 2018, 09:33:23 am

Barry's suggestion will work too but you need to make sure the circuit breaker box you choose is rated for outdoor use and you have to get a 50 amp breaker (in addition to the one on the main panel) and then you only have a single 50 amp outlet.

By the time you buy a suitable outdoor circuit breaker panel and a 50 amp outlet and the circuit breaker you might just as well just buy an outdoor RV connection, 50 amp, 30 amp, ground fault protected 20 amp and all,of the circuit breakers for less than $130.

Siemens TL137US Talon Temporary Power Outlet Panel with a 20, 30, and 50-Amp...

For a single outlet a much less expensive disconnect may do what you need.

As always when doing electrical work check local code requirements. If you know an electrician ask for their guidance. This may require a permit in in your area. It does here.

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Re: Exterior RV outlet

Reply #16 – July 01, 2018, 10:50:20 am

Progressive Industries EMS will act fast enough. In fact it is slow to start. It examines power in and only after the things it looks for are ok, does it let power pass. And if things go wrong while it is passing power, it shuts down. Still better to have a breaker nearby .

This could work with a separate double 50-amp breaker box nearby.
Talon LGP1S 50-Amp Enclosed, Outdoor Rated, Receptacle - - Amazon.com

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Re: Exterior RV outlet

Reply #17 – July 01, 2018, 11:32:47 am

Barry, that 50 amp outlet has a plastic cover. The Connecticut box is about $3 more and has a lockable metal door.
Connecticut Electric CESMPS54HR 50-Amps/120240-Volt RV Power Outlet - Rv...

My outside 50 amp outlets (the ones above) are less than 12 ft from the circuit breakers in the shop.

Here is another option for a non fused disconnect switch. It is cheaper than a 50 amp 2 pole circuit breaker.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-QO-60-Amp-240-Volt-7-5-kW-Non-Fuse-AC-Disconnect-QO200TRNM/202844936?cm_mmc=Shopping%7CVF%7CG%7C0%7CG-VF-PLA%7C&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIvcye_5v-2wIV27XACh1gZQFZEAQYByABEgLjPfD_BwE&dclid=COih6ZCc_tsCFc5RAQodDc0H8Q

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Re: Exterior RV outlet

Reply #18 – July 01, 2018, 04:28:29 pm

Bob, you ran 2 awg wire, was this due to extreme length or did the code guy just add 20+30+50. I will have to check with the AHJ, cause if I have to run #2 I will put in a 100 amp sub panel on the interior side of wall. Coach is a sub panel with a diverse load, and the other 2 outlets are also a diverse load. 50 amp conducter on a 50 breaker is still kosher. And a whopping 12 kw of load.

Re: Exterior RV outlet

Reply #19 – July 07, 2018, 10:32:33 pm

With the 20/30/50 combo it appears that only the 20 amp outet gets a gfi did I miss something here?

Re: Exterior RV outlet

Reply #20 – July 07, 2018, 11:37:57 pm

That is right unless your local code required a GFCI breaker at the source (unusual).

The thinking is that the 30 and 50 amp connections are dedicated single outlets, plugged in and unplugged once in a while. The 20 amp outlet is a duplex outlet, not dedicated, used more often.

Every duplex outlet in my shop is GFCI protected. All of the 20 and 30 amp, 120v and 220v single outlets (stationary equipment, dust collecion, air compressor, heat, AC etc) are not. Meets code.

Re: Exterior RV outlet

Reply #21 – July 08, 2018, 12:12:21 am

My shop was wired similar to Roger's. Each piece of equipment was on a single circuit with a 100 amp box from the house. RV was parked next to the house so just added a circuit for 30 and 50 amp. Had a lockable power disconnect mounted between the RV outlet and the Main box in the house.

I miss my shop on occasion. Was nice to hear the machines. Welding would be cool.

Re: Exterior RV outlet

Reply #22 – July 08, 2018, 08:01:05 am

15 and 20 amp "general purpose" outlets located outside are required to have GFCI protection. This is because they are used for portable cord connected equipment such as drill motors, saws, grinders, ect. and commonly have extension or drop cords plugged in them. It's there for personal protection not equipment protection. Not usually required for "dedicated" 3 wire connected equipment.

I know most of our Forum members already know this........just thought I would add my 2 cents worth.

Re: Exterior RV outlet

Reply #23 – July 08, 2018, 09:22:54 am

Scott, you are welcome to visit to my shop anytime. And make noise if you want. And welding too.

Roger

Re: Exterior RV outlet

Reply #24 – July 08, 2018, 11:39:37 am

Picked up the 2017 code check electrical book so per 210.8A3 ALL 15 & 20A recpticles in garages and accessory building are to be GFCI. I believe it used to have eceptions for equipment and ceiling mounted outlets for garage door openers.

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