Allison Issues

Topic: Allison Issues (Read 2862 times) previous topic - next topic

Allison Issues

July 01, 2018, 02:25:10 am

.....damsel in distress here kids, left Billings, MT to get back to Rapid City Friday, 375 miles, 1st issue was the retarder quit working, then on all the uphill climbs she "shuddered" slightly & lost power immediately, slowed to a crawl of 25-30 MPH at the top, (in 5th or 6th gear, sometimes lower gear) then was perfect again with regular speeds on the downhills. This went on for 375 miles, the slight shudder & loss of power, kept pushing to get to Rapid, was great on the downhills...all gauges were perfect but the key pad shifted strangely & stayed at higher gears for low speeds, made it back to Rapid, am safely parked in an RV park...

There are 2 Allison authorized outfits in town, Allison in Tampa did a complete servicing a year ago, fixed small leak, put a new seal in, full check...most perplexing...any ideas?

Re: Allsion issues

Reply #1 – July 01, 2018, 03:02:42 am

grab your allison manual and read the codes from your keypad -

is coach relatively level? IF you check the trans fluid from the keypad - it will read low (as fluid heats up it grows in volume, so it reads lower when fluid is not at operating temp) - still worth a look from keypad to see what it reads for fluid level.

Once you read codes and fluid level - we will have a clue - retarder quitting working probably a tell tale for someone more familiar with the transmission than I

"shudder" could have been slippage in transmission due to low fluid, hope your transmission is not damaged if fluid was low

Tim Fiedler

Sure Start Soft Start - home of SureStart soft starters TCER Direct - home of Generac Approved Aluminum and Copper TCER Composite cable generator-gas-prod - home of X-Riser Gas Risers for PE installation Call me at 630 240-9139
Gen-Pro

Re: Allsion issues

Reply #2 – July 01, 2018, 06:40:51 am

You can only check oil level from the keypad when the trans oil is at operating temp. Check oil at dipstick first. Have you looked under the coach for leaks?

Re: Allsion issues

Reply #3 – July 01, 2018, 08:35:30 am

Quote from: Miz Dani – July 01, 2018, 02:25:10 am

...all gauges were perfect but the key pad shifted strangely & stayed at higher gears for low speeds...

Dani,

You might expand that comment slightly. Were you able to down-shift and upshift manually using key pad arrows? Did the trans automatically shift all the way down to 1st gear when you came to a complete stop? Did the automatic up-shifts "feel" normal when you took off from full stop? Did you try using both of the "MODE" settings to see if they made any difference?

Re: Allsion issues

Reply #4 – July 01, 2018, 08:42:36 am

Just a thought here could it be low engine power, fuel transfer pump, filters.

Re: Allsion issues

Reply #5 – July 01, 2018, 08:46:08 am

To check for codes from the shift pad:

With ignition on, engine off push the up and down arrows at the same time. That takes you to an oil level check (which will not work unless the transmission is fully up to operating temperature).

Push the up and down arrows again at the same time. You will see a d-1and then either a two digit code or - -. - - means there are no diagnostic codes.

If you do have a d-1 diagnostic code push the mode button to go to d-2. Repeat until you get d-"whatever" and - -.

You will need to check fluid level with the dip stick. It should be toward the lower marks as it is cold.

Re: Allsion issues

Reply #6 – July 01, 2018, 08:49:17 am

When you wake up,leave some feedback after doing all the checks you can do yourself,did the trans service include fluid and filters?

Re: Allison issues

Reply #7 – July 01, 2018, 09:43:18 am

...thank you all, just woke up, gotta get brain cranked, will try all this later, appreciate it a lot....

Chuck, key pad did not seem to shift properly all the time, finally left it alone...high gears in low speed was very disconcerting, she finally built up enough speed & seemed to shift OK after that....& she finally would go all the way down to 1st gear...I already use one mode button, didn't know there were two...Brett W., I took copious notes on how to do this, thanks.....got the manual out Tim.....Bruce, I thought maybe it was fuel pump too but retarder not working was kind of first clue, would have stayed in Billings but was already out in the middle of the reservation by the time I figured it all out & there is a whole lot of nothing from there to here...John, I have this engine with all fluids, belts, etc. fully checked every time I get any other kind of service, last time at FOT in March....she had been running perfect up to now... thanks all y'all....

...will be back later...today is supposed to be moving day (just me)....that Allison shop is just 2 miles away....

Re: Allsion issues

Reply #8 – July 01, 2018, 09:45:18 am

Only one mode button. To get to diagnostic codes you push the UP and DOWN arrows.

Let us know what you find-- this only takes 2 minutes from the driver's seat.

Re: Allsion issues

Reply #9 – July 01, 2018, 09:51:14 am

Quote from: Miz Dani – July 01, 2018, 09:43:18 am

I already use one mode button, didn't know there were two...

Only one mode button - but two "modes". I just wondered if selecting either "mode" made a difference.

Wonky shifting, erratic touch panel operation, erratic retarder operation, but normal trans temp indication.

So far, your problem sounds more "electrical" than "mechanical"...at least to me. Communication error between touch pad/ECU and trans?

Re: Allsion issues

Reply #10 – July 01, 2018, 10:02:33 am

Is the touch pad OEM, Dani? $:-\$

Re: Allsion issues

Reply #11 – July 01, 2018, 10:49:17 am

Brett

you stated that Oil check won't work on Allison when not at operating temp. or is it not the case that (as I mentioned in my post) it is inaccurate when not at operating temp and sitting in park for a minimum of 1 minute before performing the keypad check?

As I recall, mine shows 3-4 quarts low when stopped and not at operating temp. Was suggesting that only since a manual dipstick check is a bit on the messy side for Dani and figured it would give some idea of Trans fluid level - symptoms would seem to line up with low trans fluid, correct?

even more suspicious of low fluid since seal recently replaced. Dani, have you noticed anything on the ground under the coach when you move it after being parked? I know, not a common thing to go back and look at the back end of your parking spot after you pull away.

Hope that all is well inside the transmission if run low of fluid for that distance.

Tim Fiedler

Sure Start Soft Start - home of SureStart soft starters TCER Direct - home of Generac Approved Aluminum and Copper TCER Composite cable generator-gas-prod - home of X-Riser Gas Risers for PE installation Call me at 630 240-9139
Gen-Pro

Re: Allsion issues

Reply #12 – July 01, 2018, 10:55:32 am

Tim,

If one tries to check fluid level before transmission up to operating temperature, it will come up with the code oL 70 "Sump fluid temperature too low".

It will not give a code for fluid level.

Re: Allsion issues

Reply #13 – July 01, 2018, 11:15:00 am

Aha - I knew you had the answer! I thought it would just give a low reading - but that would be a bad thing if owners then added Fluid to what could be an already full transmission - best to not display -

thought I had checked mine when cool, guess it wasn't that cool!

symptoms speak to low fluid then?

Tim Fiedler

Sure Start Soft Start - home of SureStart soft starters TCER Direct - home of Generac Approved Aluminum and Copper TCER Composite cable generator-gas-prod - home of X-Riser Gas Risers for PE installation Call me at 630 240-9139
Gen-Pro

Re: Allsion issues

Reply #14 – July 01, 2018, 11:26:03 am

Quote from: Tim Fiedler – July 01, 2018, 11:15:00 am

Aha - I knew you had the answer! I thought it would just give a low reading - but that would be a bad thing if owners then added Fluid to what could be an already full transmission - best to not display -

symptoms speak to low fluid then?

Tim Fiedler

Tim,

No idea. But checking codes only takes a few seconds from the driver's seat. A good place to start. Will put to rest a lot of the need to speculate.

Re: Allsion issues

Reply #15 – July 01, 2018, 12:15:19 pm

It could be as simple as not enough voltage, like bad battery, connection, alternator, isolator and not a fluid level problem. As Brett as stated the more info from the codes will help out.

Mike

Re: Allsion issues

Reply #16 – July 01, 2018, 12:31:42 pm

...gads I have no technical bones in my body so bear with me, have not been outside yet but just ran the check twice, here is what I got:

0 - L
_ _

7 - 0

I also pressed the mode button & got the range of d-1 thru d-5 but nothing else came up on that, no unusual readings on gauges. While driving all gauges were perfect, oil pressure stayed high, all other gauges normal...again, no indicator lights...

....times like this I wish I had even one iota of tech sense...you guys are awesome...thank God for this forum & you "better brains"....

....followed Brett's notes + owner's manual...by the way I never got any indicator lights on for issues. I also used big owner's book for codes, still as confused as ever...

Re: Allsion issues

Reply #17 – July 01, 2018, 12:36:54 pm

Quote from: mike leary – July 01, 2018, 10:02:33 am

Is the touch pad OEM, Dani? $:-\$

Mike, I have no idea what OEM means...

...not ready to go outside yet, but opening the engine casing may be an issue for me...

Re: Allsion issues

Reply #18 – July 01, 2018, 12:38:02 pm

You have to push the up/down arrows TWICE to get to diagnostic codes.

First push just gets you to OL (oil level).

Tell us what happens after you push them for the SECOND TIME.

Re: Allsion issues

Reply #19 – July 01, 2018, 12:38:55 pm

Quote from: Miz Dani – July 01, 2018, 12:36:54 pm

Mike, I have no idea what OEM means...

Likely (OK extremely likely) a moot point. Never seen a coach with Allison transmission with anything but an Allison shift pad.

If you would like me to talk you through this, PM me your phone number.
Brett

Re: Allsion issues

Reply #20 – July 01, 2018, 12:41:37 pm

Quote from: Miz Dani – July 01, 2018, 12:36:54 pm

Mike, I have no idea what OEM means...

...not ready to go outside yet, but opening the engine casing may be an issue for me...

Original Equipment Manufacturer. No aftermarket change out

Re: Allsion issues

Reply #21 – July 01, 2018, 12:44:04 pm

"0 - L
_ _

7 - 0"

Experts:
Does this not mean oil level low 7 quarts? Was transmission up to operating temps?

Re: Allsion issues

Reply #22 – July 01, 2018, 12:50:50 pm

Quote from: Miz Dani – July 01, 2018, 12:36:54 pm

Mike, I have no idea what OEM means...

Wrong choice of abbreviations: what I MEANT to say was, "Dani, do you know if that's the ORIGINAL keypad? Sorry for the confusion, figured someone would kick my behind!

Re: Allsion issues

Reply #23 – July 01, 2018, 12:57:32 pm

Quote from: AC7880 – July 01, 2018, 12:44:04 pm

"0 - L
_ _

7 - 0"

Experts:
Does this not mean oil level low 7 quarts? Was transmission up to operating temps?

NO. 70 means too cold to check. Look it up in your Allison manual or on-line.

Re: Allsion issues

Reply #24 – July 01, 2018, 01:14:27 pm

Just got off the phone. Walked through the check codes-- none.

She is going to look underneath (left side door behind rear wheel) to see if she sees evidence of a fluid leak-- let's face it, with 20+ quart capacity, if it lost enough fluid to cause a problem it would be a REAL MESS under there.

She said she may need help opening the large rear hatch to check fluid level.

Also, going to buy new primary and secondary fuel filters. Have them installed and pour out contents of filters into clear glass jar to check to see it that was a probable cause of performance issue.

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