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Topic: Alarm sounding in mountain driving? (Read 1406 times) previous topic - next topic

Alarm sounding in mountain driving?

Read other threads about mountain driving but haven't found any mention of this:

We've been getting practice driving in the mountains of Oregon on I-5 between Eugene and Ashland. Several 6% grades lasting 2-6 miles. Pulling a toad/minivan. On last two trips we have heard a muffled beeping alarm that is difficult to tell where it comes from. Only at higher RPM 1800 to 2100. when going up a steep grade and sometimes when descending. Accelerator at 90-95%. When climbing, we have manually shifted down to match what the automatic does and then keep that gear when descending with 1-3 levels of retarder and service brakes as needed to keep RPM/road speed down. 3rd, 30-40mph. 4th, 40-50mph. Have noticed on descents that trans won't shift up without a touch to accelerator. Alarm quickly becomes a continuous tone after a few beeps, which we think we have been able to stop by applying brakes, or shifting. Wish I could be more certain what works. Beep usually happens on uphill drive. Water temps max at 195. Transmission same. Retarder reached 230 on descents. What kind of alarm is this...... Engine? Transmission? RPM upper limit alarm? Refrigerator out of level?, (been reading about issues with overheating refrigerators during mountain transits). I need to know because guessing isn't good for our cross-country travel plans.

This "beep alarm" is distinctly different than the buzzer for travel mode or turn signals. It sounds soft, much much quieter than the beep of a microwave oven. We just can't locate its origin. If we had stereo on it might not even be heard.

Feeling a bit nervous about driving uphill.

2002 U270, 36' WTNS, Build # 6030, Cummins 400 ISL.
Wheelchair accessible modifications by ForeTravel, Braun UVL lift.

2001 Dodge IMS RampVan, M&G tow brakes, Sterling tow bar.

Re: Alarm sounding in mountain driving?

Reply #1 –
Check your ProSine display if you have one.  Mine beeps every once in a while if charging voltage goes high.

Keith
Keith, Joyce & Smokey the Australian Cattle Dog
1995 U320 SE Extreme 40' WTBI Build # 4780, with a Honda CR-V hopefully still following behind.
Motorcade # 17030
FMCA # F422159

Re: Alarm sounding in mountain driving?

Reply #2 –
How are you getting the retarder temperature?  The trans temp on your instrument panel is not the retarder temp. When my trans temp reads 230, my retarder could well be close to 300. It rises very rapidly. VMSpc tells all.
Tom Lang K6PG (originally  KC6UEC)
and Diane Lang
2003 38 U295 build 6209
2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Ecodiesel
still have tow-ready 2006 Acura MDX 
Temple City, California
Motorcade 16681 California Chapter President
SKP 16663 member of SKP Park of the Sierra, Coarsegold California
FMCA F071251
Retired electrical and electronic engineer

Re: Alarm sounding in mountain driving?

Reply #3 –
Quote from: Keith and Joyce –
Check your ProSine display if you have one.  Mine beeps every once in a while if charging voltage goes high.

Keith

Hi Keith, You might be onto something, even though I no longer have a Prosine. But we did just install a Xantrex FW 2000 inverter before our last trips. I will check that manual for audible alarms and also see if the Xantrex control panel has memory of charging voltage spikes, (we installed control panel on fridge wall facing bedroom, which could explain the distant beep). Anyone else have same alarm beep as Keith does from their inverter for similar charging spikes and/or during the driving conditions we described?

Quote from: Tom Lang –
How are you getting the retarder temperature?  The trans temp on your instrument panel is not the retarder temp. When my trans temp reads 230, my retarder could well be close to 300. It rises very rapidly. VMSpc tells all.

Hi Tom, I do use VmsPC. Great product. Wish it could tell me where the beep is from. BTW: I haven't set any alarms on VmsPC yet. First I want to know what parameters are appropriate for our coach. I installed the default for Cummins 400 ISL. And happy anniversary to you and  Diane, been just over a year. Wonderful profile photo!
2002 U270, 36' WTNS, Build # 6030, Cummins 400 ISL.
Wheelchair accessible modifications by ForeTravel, Braun UVL lift.

2001 Dodge IMS RampVan, M&G tow brakes, Sterling tow bar.

Re: Alarm sounding in mountain driving?

Reply #4 –
It surprised me to learn that the retarder and transmission temps are separate.  I had understood the retarder to be a transmission "brake" which created friction within the transmission resulted in higher transmission temps.  How are they separated and where would I  find the sender for each?
Incidentally, I did get an alarm when my  intake manifold (CAC) temps went up while others were barely into the  normal range.
2000 U320 mid entry  #5688
2006 Jeep Liberty


USMCR retired
SDFD retired
FEMA US&R TF8

Re: Alarm sounding in mountain driving?

Reply #5 –
Sevn,

Retarder output temperature and "transmission temperature" are certainly related.  But, retarder output temperature rises much more quickly than transmission temperature when the retarder is in use.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Alarm sounding in mountain driving?

Reply #6 –
Sven, transmission temp and retarder temps are both reported as separate temps on VMspc.  I don't know where the actual sensors are on the transmission but the data comes to VMSpc through the data bus. If you are driving steady state w/o retarder use (even if it is on) the retarder temps will be the same as the transmission temps + a few degrees.  Slowing down with one or two notches of retarder will send the retard temps to around 235 in just seconds.  Step on the brakes and you will use much more retarder action and the temps can quickly go over 250.  Knowing what coolant, transmission and retarder temps are help you adjust driving habits for better perfomance especially in the mountains.

If you have a VMSpc retarder temp should be a standard gauge on versions 4.x and above.  Earlier version sniff for PIDs and look for 120 as I recall or make a new gauge there for PID 120.

Intake manifold temps should be close to or a bit more than ambient, maybe as much as +10  to 15 degrees.  If the CAC is not getting air movement from fans or not working as it should then the pressurized air is not cooled as much resulting in a higher  intake manifold temp. 

Mike, all of the yellow and red indicators both high and low can be set in the parameter editor on VMSpc.  These are independent of the engine you select and are representative of common values to start with.  Everyone's engine, installation, cooling, loads, driving habits and location are different so it is just a starting point.  Set the yellow points at the upper end of where you are comfortable, say 235 for retarder temp.  This should be a signal for you to pay attention, maybe adjust driving habits, gear, speed etc.  Set the high red limit at a point where it is time to do something but lower than something that will damage your coach.  Retarder temps for example at 250.  It could be higher with synthetics but why push it.

My ISM11 oil temps are usually 199ish.  Under sustained load they go up to 205.  My yellow light came on at 200, Cummins tolds me 205 was not an issue so I reset the low yellow limit to 206.  Oil temps are not reported on many engines.

These are there for your information.  What does your coach normally do at steady state?  This is normal for your coach.  Start from there.
Roger Engdahl and Susan Green
2001 U320 3610 #5879 (Home2) - 2014 Jeep Cherokee or 2018 F150
Hastings, MN

Re: Alarm sounding in mountain driving?

Reply #7 –
When I started using the VmsPC to monitor retarder temp, I was surprised to see how fast it can rise.
Tom Lang K6PG (originally  KC6UEC)
and Diane Lang
2003 38 U295 build 6209
2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Ecodiesel
still have tow-ready 2006 Acura MDX 
Temple City, California
Motorcade 16681 California Chapter President
SKP 16663 member of SKP Park of the Sierra, Coarsegold California
FMCA F071251
Retired electrical and electronic engineer

Re: Alarm sounding in mountain driving?

Reply #8 –
On our coach it seems we are reading the trans sump temp.  Not the retarder.  Probably Foretravel did that on purpose as the quick temp increase would have some owners panicked
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Alarm sounding in mountain driving?

Reply #9 –
Your driving technique sounds just right to me.  On my present coach, A 97 270, I kept getting a faint alarm sound too while all gauges were in the normal range.  After chasing this annoying little distant beep for several months I finally gave up and disabled the annunciator.  I am a gauge watcher anyhow so I don't miss it.  If your O2 is set up like the older coaches you may find that little annunciator in the dash is the problem.  Good luck.
jor
93 225
95 300
97 270
99 320

Re: Alarm sounding in mountain driving?

Reply #10 –
Quote from: jor –
Your driving technique sounds just right to me.    I am a gauge watcher anyhow so I don't miss it.
What John said!      8)  8)  8)  8)
1993 U-240 "La Villa Grande"..CAT 3116 w/ Pacbrake PRXB...Allison 3060 6-speed..
Previous: 1983 Airstream 310 turbo diesel, 1979 Airstream 280 turbo diesel
                                      Build # 4297
                                      PNW natives
                      Home base:  'Cactus Hug' (Ajo, Arizona)
                        DW Judy & Chet the wonder dog
                        Full-Timers 'Sailing the asphalt sea'

Re: Alarm sounding in mountain driving?

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Sven and Kristi –
Incidentally, I did get an alarm when my  intake manifold (CAC) temps went up while others were barely into the  normal range.
Hi Sven, With everything happening at once I failed to note the CAC temp! Wish I had recorded the trip data. I do recall that nothing went into the "red" zone on VmsPC. (But I am only using the ISL 400 profile provided with the software).
Roger, I plan on adjusting the parameters as I get accustom to our coach and driving style.

Quote from: jor –
Your driving technique sounds just right to me.  On my present coach, A 97 270, I kept getting a faint alarm sound too while all gauges were in the normal range.  After chasing this annoying little distant beep for several months I finally gave up and disabled the annunciator.  I am a gauge watcher anyhow so I don't miss it.  If your O2 is set up like the older coaches you may find that little annunciator in the dash is the problem.
Hi Jor, Your post has me wondering if there are two separate annunciators. Maybe you can help my thinking. 1.) Did your "distant beep" happen in mountain driving? 2.) When you disabled your annunciator did you also lose the "ding, ding, ding" on your turn signals and travel mode alarm linked to HWH? If not, then there must be two under the dash. I have only been able to locate one, our turn and HWH annunciator. FYI: DW does our driving and relies on my gauge watching. My official title of copilot is literal. Unfortunately, sometimes I get caught napping and not watching. Alarms are helpful to me if I know what they signify. It's a wake up call.

Thanks!
PS, I still need to check on Keith's suggestion of the over charge alarm on inverter control panel.
2002 U270, 36' WTNS, Build # 6030, Cummins 400 ISL.
Wheelchair accessible modifications by ForeTravel, Braun UVL lift.

2001 Dodge IMS RampVan, M&G tow brakes, Sterling tow bar.

Re: Alarm sounding in mountain driving?

Reply #12 –
Just wondering if maybe the alarm is from something not related to the drive train, like the refrigerator, although that seems far fetched.  When I bought my coach the previous owner had silenced the dash alarm with a piece of tape..  I could not hear it but my wife could, however she didn't say anything about it for the first few hundred miles.  The alarm was from the TV antenna up switch although the Antenna was down.  Bad idea to silence an alarm that has several functions.
Jerry Whiteaker former owner 96 U270  36' #4831 Austin,TX-Owner Mods LCD TV w/front cabinet rebuild - LCD TV bedroom - Dual Central AC, either can cool coach w 30 amp - Skylights at roof AC openings - Drop ceiling for ducting of AC - Shower skylight white gelcoat/wood/epoxy frame - Air Springs/Shocks replaced - 2014 CRV - 8K Home Solar - Chevy Volt

Re: Alarm sounding in mountain driving?

Reply #13 –
Finally have a solid wifi connection so am cleaning up old threads I started with new info. Original concern here regarding distant beeping alarm. Found the source and it is nothing any of us would have known. Last year I installed a ceiling lift to assist me in transferring from my wheelchair between the bedroom and bath. The lift has an alarm which alerts me to a low battery. The battery has never been low so I never considered this to be the source. Finally crossing the Cascade today it stayed on long enough for my wife to pull over and run to rear of coach to locate the sound. Don't know why it decided to alert us to mountain driving. Pulled the emergency stop switch and alarm stopped. Will have to find out if this indicates a problem or not. It is not an FT or inverter issue.

This thread is resolved. I thank everyone who responded. Along the way of chasing this "distant beep" I learned a lot more about our coach and made new friends. Thank you!
2002 U270, 36' WTNS, Build # 6030, Cummins 400 ISL.
Wheelchair accessible modifications by ForeTravel, Braun UVL lift.

2001 Dodge IMS RampVan, M&G tow brakes, Sterling tow bar.