lithium batteries

Topic: lithium batteries (Read 2136 times) previous topic - next topic

lithium batteries

August 02, 2018, 12:23:42 am

Seen a Deal on OfferUp.. Not sure if I did good.. if not I will sell them on ebay or something

They say 50Ah each one at 3.2v

there are 16ea in each box and I have 4 boxes and a contraption I think for the charging that I might not need.. They sit at 35v as wired right now..

How many AH can I get out of this? any ideas?

PAckage deal for $440.00.. did I do ok? or No?

Re: lithium batteries

Reply #1 – August 02, 2018, 07:04:24 am

So if my math is correct.. 3200ah for $400?

50x16=800 per box x 4 boxes.

Are they fully charged? Man that's a lot of wiring... you can run your ac if it all works.

How's the footprint? Looks like cell-tower backup batteries

Re: lithium batteries

Reply #2 – August 02, 2018, 09:41:18 am

I can reconfigure if needed.. Not sure how the math works on these to get total AH. I was thinking 800ah at the end of the day but guessing..

14x14 square , maybe 16x16 but I can make new boxes.. think I need to get new bms and wire them all to 12.8v .. something to do

Re: lithium batteries

Reply #3 – August 02, 2018, 09:57:12 am

Sorry, I didn't see 3.2v each.

That's 4 for a 12v system, so 3200÷4=800ah still GREAT DEAL AND NOT LIKE normal systems at 50% capacity, true 800ah.

Re: lithium batteries

Reply #4 – August 02, 2018, 10:25:12 am

Quote from: fouroureye – August 02, 2018, 09:57:12 am

Sorry, I didn't see 3.2v each.

That's 4 for a 12v system, so 3200÷4=800ah still GREAT DEAL AND NOT LIKE normal systems at 50% capacity, true 800ah.

That was what I was thinking.. Maybe Tim can help me with what BMS boards to order .. want to get them connected and charged up

Re: lithium batteries

Reply #5 – August 02, 2018, 10:50:59 am

Looks like a good deal to me. Will depend on how many cycles they have been through. If used as a battery backup probably very few cycles. From the packaging they look like high quality cells. Should be fun to play with.

If wired for 12v you should be able to charge with your existing charger in coach. Do some research to find out what voltage you need to charge for a 12.8v lithium system. I would think in the high 14v range.

Please keep us up to date as you progress.

see ya
ken

Re: lithium batteries

Reply #6 – August 02, 2018, 12:24:51 pm

I would configure them for 16 volts and charge to 14.8 volts. That way you will not over charge them and they will last longer.
This is how I configured my Chevy volt batteries. At 14.8v you can use the coaches charging systems, you can also add solar for more flexibility. Most all 12 volt devices will run at 14.8 volts. That's what most alternators charge at. I would not worry to much about a BMS, do your research. I don't run one, but I do keep and eye on the balance of the cells. I use a 20 amp hobby charger to balance when there's a need.
I think you did good in your buy. Have fun I do.

Re: lithium batteries

Reply #7 – August 02, 2018, 02:05:52 pm

Quote from: Michael j – August 02, 2018, 12:24:51 pm

I would configure them for 16 volts and charge to 14.8 volts. That way you will not over charge them and they will last longer.
This is how I configured my Chevy volt batteries. At 14.8v you can use the coaches charging systems, you can also add solar for more flexibility. Most all 12 volt devices will run at 14.8 volts. That's what most alternators charge at. I would not worry to much about a BMS, do your research. I don't run one, but I do keep and eye on the balance of the cells. I use a 20 amp hobby charger to balance when there's a need.
I think you did good in your buy. Have fun I do.

Did you bottom balance? (read a little on it last night). If 16v will worrk with everything in the coach I might do that and simplify. Would I lose AH from being done that way?

Also can you share your setting for charge, float and bulk.. and anything else you think?

Re: lithium batteries

Reply #8 – August 02, 2018, 02:21:37 pm

640ah That's still more amper hours than 90% of everyone that's out there...

Re: lithium batteries

Reply #9 – August 02, 2018, 03:23:23 pm

Had some work done by the electric bike dealer in solana beach, ca.

He makes up the BMS for the San Diego area rickshaws that use li-ion

SDEB

Being as these are loose you might check with him. At least to verify condition?

My worthless two cents.

I watched as his BMS was turning off a strip of leds which indicated those cells were balanced.

Three cells per circuit? I think Tesla uses that same grouping?

Re: lithium batteries

Reply #10 – August 02, 2018, 10:09:45 pm

Quote from: Michael j – August 02, 2018, 12:24:51 pm

I would configure them for 16 volts and charge to 14.8 volts.

This is new territory for me. You're saying lithium batteries can be charged with a voltage less than they put out???

see ya
ken

Re: lithium batteries

Reply #11 – August 03, 2018, 09:54:29 am

Quote from: kenhat – August 02, 2018, 10:09:45 pm

This is new territory for me. You're saying lithium batteries can be charged with a voltage less than they put out???

see ya
ken

I think how it works, if you wire at the 12.8v max there is a max charge of 14.4-14.8 area.

Wire them to be 16v you will still max out on the charge side at the 14.8v as that is what the natural charging is on the coach but because you added the extra cell at 3.2v you could actually charge higher according to the max charge per cell (not sure what that is b) but the 14.8 is under that for sure so the batterys is being charged less that 100% per charge thus extending the battery life.

Just guessing from what I have read

Re: lithium batteries

Reply #12 – August 03, 2018, 10:57:17 am

Yes charge less does not cause a problem over charge will kill them. So if you setup for 12.8 you house system will kill them. I use a section of the Chevy Volt battery and reconfigure them from 48 volts to 16.8 volts. These 48 volt section are 2 kw amp hours. Check out Chevy Volt batteries or any of the other car manufacturers on uTube. Lots of stuff there.

Re: lithium batteries

Reply #13 – August 03, 2018, 11:24:30 am

David, your post inspired me to do some searching for more information. Found this http://batteryuniversity.com/

Are these new batteries or used? I'm guessing used since they appear to have wiring for a BMS and series connections at the terminals. What are your plans for them?

The one thing I found in the above article is that once they are fully charged, charging should be stopped. No float voltage etc.

Li-ion batteries prefer the same temperature as we do, not hot or cold. Maybe leave some space between the cells for cooling. Still a lot to learn about LI-ion.

Re: lithium batteries

Reply #14 – August 03, 2018, 02:04:22 pm

Quote from: Jerry Whiteaker – August 03, 2018, 11:24:30 am

David, your post inspired me to do some searching for more information. Found this Basic to Advanced Battery Information from Battery University

Are these new batteries or used? I'm guessing used since they appear to have wiring for a BMS and series connections at the terminals. What are your plans for them?

The one thing I found in the above article is that once they are fully charged, charging should be stopped. No float voltage etc.

Li-ion batteries prefer the same temperature as we do, not hot or cold. Maybe leave some space between the cells for cooling. Still a lot to learn about LI-ion.

I am going to take them all apart this weekend, see what is good or not. Connect 5 together and charge or look into bottom charging.. Use in the motorhome.. looking easier than I was thinking originally

Re: lithium batteries

Reply #15 – August 03, 2018, 03:24:15 pm

Quote from: DavidS – August 03, 2018, 02:04:22 pm

I am going to take them all apart this weekend, see what is good or not. Connect 5 together and charge or look into bottom charging.. Use in the motorhome.. looking easier than I was thinking originally

They are definitely not charged as you probably know. 16 connected in series at 3.2v should be 51.2v. If the voltage is 35 that is 2.18v per cell. Battery U states the operating range of the Li-iron-phosphate is 2.5 - 3.65v. If you can get them charged then you can run a discharge test to see if they produce 50 Ahr, which they may not as capacity decreases with age and use. Still you may have a good buy. Charging Lithium-Ion Batteries – Battery University This article is mostly about Li-cobalt rather than iron- phosphate. Let us know what you find out. I like the idea of connecting 5 in series for safety and long life, but you will get less than 50 Ahr doing that. Overcharging and a venting with flame incident might ruin your day.

My 69 mo old Chevy Volt with 35K mi can still go almost 40 miles on a charge (42 when new), but EV's are built for long life. Not sure what the chemistry is in that Li-ion battery.

Re: lithium batteries

Reply #16 – August 03, 2018, 04:22:07 pm

Cold or hot can kill them dead. Would not mount them outside the main body shell. No desert hot use?

Re: lithium batteries

Reply #17 – August 03, 2018, 04:35:31 pm

Quote from: Michael j – August 03, 2018, 10:57:17 am

Yes charge less does not cause a problem over charge will kill them. So if you setup for 12.8 you house system will kill them. I use a section of the Chevy Volt battery and reconfigure them from 48 volts to 16.8 volts. These 48 volt section are 2 kw amp hours. Check out Chevy Volt batteries or any of the other car manufacturers on uTube. Lots of stuff there.

Is there a specific piece of the battery bank on the volt that can or can not be converted to 12v(or 16v) to make them usable?

Been wanting to get one and convert but was nervous about getting the wrong one

Re: lithium batteries

Reply #18 – August 03, 2018, 07:35:58 pm

5 cells are bad out of the bunch.. ended up with 59 cells

Very happy with that except I am 1 short of making a complete battery using 5 cells each... Maybe I can find one online for cheap.. so far no

Re: lithium batteries

Reply #19 – August 03, 2018, 10:05:52 pm

Some of the cells sit at 3.20, 3.19 respectively.. So do I need to bottom balance if they are matched up in voltage if I am able to?

If the charging system doesnt go over the 14.8 then in theory I should be ok I would think.. then I can take the oddballs and charge or discharge to get them to match. In Theory?

Assuming I am grouping in 5 cell pair

Re: lithium batteries

Reply #20 – August 03, 2018, 10:19:30 pm

My solana guy and Tesla do three cell groups as far as their BMS. Probably better cell balancing?

Re: lithium batteries

Reply #21 – August 04, 2018, 12:16:54 am

Quote from: Caflashbob – August 03, 2018, 10:19:30 pm

My solana guy and Tesla do three cell groups as far as their BMS. Probably better cell balancing?

Large discussions online.. better reasoning for the bottom up balancing ... it will never get to high with my application but it can get to low if 1 cell is goes out of balance

Re: lithium batteries

Reply #22 – August 06, 2018, 12:34:37 pm

I had a few cells that were bad.. 5 overall..

Took one apart to see what and how they were made. Not the cylinder type its sort of a pad.. pics included. Any ideas on MAx Amps I can charge at..

Anyone with Lithium want to share charging perimeters for the inverter and if you have solar the charge controllers?

Plan was
Charge limit 12.8
Not sure on the rest though

Re: lithium batteries

Reply #23 – August 09, 2018, 02:03:35 pm

David I don't remember who you bought your Multipass from but AM will send you a script to set your charge parameters. Allan probably has the same thing. Also in the Multipass manual they have the settings. The solar charger simply is changed at the bottom left with a dial. It's manual also has the setting. I don't want to steer you wrong but you can also email the tech guys at victron and they are very good about a quick answer. You need to have a PC and NOT anything else.

Re: lithium batteries

Reply #24 – August 09, 2018, 02:50:35 pm

Quote from: George and Steph – August 09, 2018, 02:03:35 pm

David I don't remember who you bought your Multipass from but AM will send you a script to set your charge parameters. Allan probably has the same thing. Also in the Multipass manual they have the settings. The solar charger simply is changed at the bottom left with a dial. It's manual also has the setting. I don't want to steer you wrong but you can also email the tech guys at victron and they are very good about a quick answer. You need to have a PC and NOT anything else.

I talked to Bay Marine tues and received my dongle today.. good people.. Maybe I will call him and ask about the programing.. thanks for the heads up.

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