Locking Storage Bay Doors

Topic: Locking Storage Bay Doors (Read 1219 times) previous topic - next topic

Locking Storage Bay Doors

August 18, 2018, 07:05:10 pm

I just learned something new today that I had not realized in all the fourteen years that I have owned my coach.

All of the bay doors have key locks except the locker on the street side where the propane tank and Diesel fuel fill are located. My coach has electrically locking/unlocking latches. The small doors aft of the rear tires have key locks but do not have the electric locking mechanism. I ASSUMED that all the other locking compartments had electric locks. Not so, as it turns out. The locker opposite the propane on my coach contains the coach batteries and the street side fuel fill. It does not have an electric actuator for the lock. It can be locked/unlocked with a key but not electrically. All these years I thought that that compartment was locked at night and when in storage.

Live and learn.

Richard

Re: Locking Storage Bay Doors

Reply #1 – August 18, 2018, 09:46:59 pm

And if room in your coach layout, those 2 compartments are an excellent place to add a small portable fire extinguisher for quick access when outside - should the need ever arise. (say to help out a neighbor, car fire, etc).

Re: Locking Storage Bay Doors

Reply #2 – August 18, 2018, 11:07:55 pm

That's why this forum is such a great asset. I read almost every post every day. And almost every day I walk away with new found knowledge and insight that can hopefully be remembered on these complex vehicles. My KISS 89 ORED was bought for realitively simplicity. About $18k into the coach now with new belts, filters, fluids and other required service, about $18k into the coaches side of the coach house. Still smiling, over 10 mpg at 65-70, 1400 miles home, ran the eastbound grade into flagstaff at 65. Still about $14 k left in the kitty. Would have spent that on a newer complicated diesel PU with a cheap fiver

Re: Locking Storage Bay Doors

Reply #3 – August 18, 2018, 11:16:57 pm

Woops I kinda got sidetracked on this one

Re: Locking Storage Bay Doors

Reply #4 – August 19, 2018, 06:57:56 am

Quote from: Jan & Richard – August 18, 2018, 07:05:10 pm

I just learned something new today that I had not realized in all the fourteen years that I have owned my coach.

All of the bay doors have key locks except the locker on the street side where the propane tank and Diesel fuel fill are located. My coach has electrically locking/unlocking latches. The small doors aft of the rear tires have key locks but do not have the electric locking mechanism. I ASSUMED that all the other locking compartments had electric locks. Not so, as it turns out. The locker opposite the propane on my coach contains the coach batteries and the street side fuel fill. It does not have an electric actuator for the lock. It can be locked/unlocked with a key but not electrically. All these years I thought that that compartment was locked at night and when in storage.

Live and learn.

Richard

Richard we just found this out as well, plus some still don't securely latch on ours. Had both front bays open up while driving on our first trip, even though they were locked and securely closed. Not sure why there is no key lock on the fuel bay. Doesn't make sense to me.

Re: Locking Storage Bay Doors

Reply #5 – August 19, 2018, 07:08:32 am

I read that it is a DOT regulation that the fuel bay cannot be lockable.

Re: Locking Storage Bay Doors

Reply #6 – August 19, 2018, 10:14:20 am

I believe the DOT regulation is for the propane to be non-locking for fire safety. My driver side fuel bay locks, but not my passenger fuel and propane bay.

Re: Locking Storage Bay Doors

Reply #7 – August 19, 2018, 10:24:44 am

DOT regulation kinda makes sense, my propane bay has three latches but not lockable. Fuel port is lockable, but tank is hidden amidship under coach. Pressurized Propane tank could explode during a fire event, fuel tank will boil and vent out the filler neck.

Re: Locking Storage Bay Doors

Reply #8 – August 19, 2018, 10:41:22 am

Quote from: Bob and Julie – August 19, 2018, 06:57:56 am

Had both front bays open up while driving on our first trip, even though they were locked and securely closed.

Dont feel bad, Your not the only one..Not sure how far I made it when it happened.. Seen it so pulled over and had to wire it shut until I made it a few miles to the house. Mostly just adjustments on mine

Re: Locking Storage Bay Doors

Reply #9 – August 19, 2018, 10:46:40 am

I'm not sure if the PO changed it or not, but my fuel doors have key locks on both sides. No actuators though.

I had one door open on the fwy too, it seems the cable adjustments are a little too tight. It will open when locked with a slight pull of the handle. It's on my to do list.

Re: Locking Storage Bay Doors

Reply #10 – August 19, 2018, 10:50:30 am

Our coach, being a 1989, has seen a bit of use on the latching mechanisms. We have had a couple compartment doors come open, even after I have gone around and "double checked" that the doors were closed and latched securely.
Last year I went around each compartment and examined each latch operation closely.
I found that the fixed striker plates had either moved (come loose) or needed the contact bar that contacts the striker adjusted/bent to increase pressure.
Just because the door latched didn't mean that closure was going to be secure. Check your contacts.

Re: Locking Storage Bay Doors

Reply #11 – August 19, 2018, 11:08:10 am

Early on in our Foretravel experiences, we were taught the "Foretravel bump" .... a maneuver whereby you used your knee or your leg to give a good nudge to each of the bay doors after you closed them, to make sure the latches were secure. I am thinking that James Stallings taught us that one. He should know .... he practically designed half of those bay doors, especially the long ones!

Re: Locking Storage Bay Doors

Reply #12 – August 19, 2018, 02:41:43 pm

I was scrolling down to post about the "Foretravel Bump" Carol taught me when I purchased their coach and there she was!

Hi, Carol & Jeff.

Keith

Re: Locking Storage Bay Doors

Reply #13 – August 19, 2018, 05:26:57 pm

Quote from: Jeff & Sandy – August 19, 2018, 07:08:32 am

............I read that it is a DOT regulation that the fuel bay cannot be lockable................

Jeff,
Standards help to make things predictable. They also help in keeping safety and quality up to reasonable standards.

In today's society, it is unfortunate, but, due to the frequent lack of common sense, it has also become necessary to legislate common sense. Otherwise, things get built and modified in ways that impose greater risks upon society overall. Of course the need to legislate gets carried way overboard, as more and more expectations, rules and standards get laid upon manufacturers and us.

Common sense should dictate that access to shutoffs for flammable fluids and gases should never be access restricted.

But, as endorsed through RVIA agreement, recreation vehicles produced in volume (beyond a certain volume), must meet ANSI/NFPA Standard 1192. Of course that standard is in constant revision and is chronically in the process of being updated. Copies of the standard cost money ($$$) that is used to help defray the inner workings of developing and maintaining the standard, but here is a copy of the 2005 version, that is free to view, off of the internet.

http://hamyarenergy.com/static/fckimages/files/NFPA/Hamyar%20Energy%20NFPA%201192%20-%202005.pdf

Note Paragraph 5.2.6.6:

5.2.6.6 Doors or panels providing access to valves shall not be equipped with locks or
require special tools to open

"Special tools" includes "Keys" and remote locking "Key Fobs" and diesel fuel is not classified as a flammable fluid.

HTH,
Neal

Re: Locking Storage Bay Doors

Reply #14 – August 19, 2018, 06:08:46 pm

Quote from: Neal Pillsbury – August 19, 2018, 05:26:57 pm

Note Paragraph 5.2..6.6:

5.2.6.6 Doors or panels providing access to valves shall not be equipped with locks or
require special tools to open

"Special tools" includes "Keys" and remote locking "Key Fobs" and diesel fuel is not classified as a flammable fluid.

HTH,
Neal

Ergo: the propane/diesel fill bay on the starboard side of my coach cannot be locked.

The diesel/battery bay on the opposite side can be locked using a key. My original observation was that it seemed logical that that bay would lock electrically like all the other locking bays, but it does not.

Richard

Re: Locking Storage Bay Doors

Reply #15 – August 19, 2018, 07:22:23 pm

Quote from: Jan & Richard – August 19, 2018, 06:08:46 pm

............The diesel/battery bay on the opposite side can be locked using a key. My original observation was that it seemed logical that that bay would lock electrically like all the other locking bays, but it does not. ................

Richard,

I noticed what you said. I have no explanation, but I do have a question........there may be an outside chance of similarity?

Does your coach have the bay doors inner "Cosmetics" panels?
Our 1998 U270 did not. The Propane, Diesel fill bay (P1), had no lock and I had just a manual key lock on the battery bay (D2). No problems.
Our 2002 U320 does have the "Cosmetics" panels and while the Aqua Hot, Fuel fill (D4) bay had a manual key, it did not seem to have remote locking (I thought).

But one day I noticed that there was a "click" on (D4) and upon disassembly, I found that the remote actuator needed replacing,, Now the only bay that doesn't remotely lock is my Propane, Fuel Fill (P3) bay.

I always thought that FT was pretty consistent with this Standard.

On another related topic in this thread, however, FT, at least bus hinged FTs, seem to be pretty consistent with "Flying Bay" doors. We never had any troubles with the top hinged doors on the U270. But on our U320, my wide bay, bus hinged bay on the driver's side (D3) has been a chronic problem. It's the only one, but I've adjusted it numerous times and even replaced the ratcheting, locking plate assembly in the upper right corner, facing the bay door, as well as the associated locking pin. That corner of the (D3) bay door seems to be temperature sensitive as well as road surface prone. It only "Flys" when extremely cold, or hot, outside. And rough roads. potholes are the usual trigger. I've spent time in the dark, in subzero temperatures in the Wilkes Barre, PA boondocks, snaking ropes to the opposite side of the coach trying to keep the (D3) door from releasing and standing 18" proud of the coach traveling down the highway. In the Southwest this summer, we had exactly the same problems in Arizona and NM in 110 (+) degree temperatures between Lake Havasu and Albuquerque. The next travel day, at "just 100 degrees", it was fine. The only explanation I can come up with at this point is that the flexing of the coach, particularly at temperature extremes, momentarily changes the door/latch geometry just enough to cause the grip of the latch to become marginal and a good pothole shock wave triggers it free.
Promotes some interesting discussions with passing drivers that point out my dilemma, though (four times, recently, between Lake Havasu and Nacogdoches).
HTH,
Neal

Re: Locking Storage Bay Doors

Reply #16 – August 19, 2018, 07:38:07 pm

My '99 has the cosmetic panel in the fuel battery bay, but there are no wires on the hinges that would actuate a lock. It takes a key to lock and unlock. I have considered running wires to it and putting on an actuator since I have several spares thanks to posts that led me to a supplier. Maybe if I get all the other upgrades I want I will tackle it.

Re: Locking Storage Bay Doors

Reply #17 – August 19, 2018, 09:39:32 pm

Is it possible that there are no actuators on either fuel bay door (even the locking side) to avoid a possible ignition source in case there is a propane leak in the bay?

Rich

Re: Locking Storage Bay Doors

Reply #18 – August 19, 2018, 11:20:47 pm

Neal,

Our doors are like Craneman's. They have the cosmetic panels on the fuel/battery locker but no electric wires and no power actuator. Not a problem, just a curiosity.

Richard

Re: Locking Storage Bay Doors

Reply #19 – August 20, 2018, 12:00:53 am

Quote from: Rich Bowman – August 19, 2018, 09:39:32 pm

Is it possible that there are no actuators on either fuel bay door (even the locking side) to avoid a possible ignition source in case there is a propane leak in the bay?

Rich

That would make sense. I wonder if Neal's propane is separated from that compartment?

Re: Locking Storage Bay Doors

Reply #20 – August 20, 2018, 03:52:59 am

My only bay malfunction was the first time I entered Camp Foretravel. I was coming from Bernd's turned off on exit and made a left turn. I heard a loud noise amidships looked in the mirror and the Joey bed was fully extended having become a battering ram opening the bay door. Grand entrance. Often thought how fortunate I wasn't turning on a four lane.

Re: Locking Storage Bay Doors

Reply #21 – August 20, 2018, 08:45:04 am

Quote from: George and Steph – August 20, 2018, 03:52:59 am

My only bay malfunction was the first time I entered Camp Foretravel. I was coming from Bernd's turned off on exit and made a left turn. I heard a loud noise amidships looked in the mirror and the Joey bed was fully extended having become a battering ram opening the bay door. Grand entrance. Often thought how fortunate I wasn't turning on a four lane.

This was the fix I used for that problem.

Joey bed problem solved

Re: Locking Storage Bay Doors

Reply #22 – August 20, 2018, 09:03:35 am

Craneman nice permanent fix. I am very forgetful so I cut a 2x4 and placed it across the opening and it won't let the slide out and fits well. For me the 2x4 on the ground after extending the Joey is a reminder.

I put one on both sides but I have never been able to slide it out on the drivers side. Examined it closely but just haven't found the catch.

Re: Locking Storage Bay Doors

Reply #23 – August 20, 2018, 09:13:20 am

I added a simple gate latch. We never move without it being latched. Our bay slide has never come out on its own any way but I just didn't want the risk.

No electric locks on the drivers side fuel bay door but the latch has a key lock.

Re: Locking Storage Bay Doors

Reply #24 – August 20, 2018, 01:33:36 pm

Quote from: craneman – August 20, 2018, 12:00:53 am

.............I wonder if Neal's propane is separated from that compartment?.................

Quote from: Jan & Richard – August 19, 2018, 11:20:47 pm

...............Our doors are like Craneman's. They have the cosmetic panels on the fuel/battery locker but no electric wires and no power actuator. Not a problem, just a curiosity. .........................

Quote from: craneman – August 19, 2018, 07:38:07 pm

My '99 has the cosmetic panel in the fuel battery bay, but there are no wires on the hinges that would actuate a lock. It takes a key to lock and unlock. I have considered running wires to it and putting on an actuator since I have several spares thanks to posts that led me to a supplier. Maybe if I get all the other upgrades I want I will tackle it.

Quote from: Rich Bowman – August 19, 2018, 09:39:32 pm

...................Is it possible that there are no actuators on either fuel bay door (even the locking side) to avoid a possible ignition source in case there is a propane leak in the bay?....................

Craneman, Rich, Richard,

The curiosity continues!

ANSI/NFPA Standard 1192 States:

5.2.9 Elimination of Ignition Sources. Propane containers shall not be installed in
compartments or under hoods or housings that contain flame or spark producing
equipment.

Note: That means anything that uses an open flame - or - "makes, breaks or uses" a power circuit (which for us is 12Vdc or 120VAC).

I don't know your exact compartment/sub-compartment designs, but the OEM FT's that I'm familiar with, seal off propane compartments with panels that are caulked floor to ceiling and wall to wall.

For instance, our 1998, U270 Propane compartment, could communicate (around the fuel tank walls and floor void spaces) all the way from curbside to battery side, but then the battery compartment itself was totally sealed off from the curbside propane container with a sealed, floor to ceiling and wall to wall panel.

In the case of our 2002, U320, the propane compartment is in a bay that (side to side [curb to street] is divided into three separate sub-compartments: The diesel fuel tank runs across (most of) the width of the bay from curb to street. The curbside propane compartment is caulked and sealed from floor to ceiling and wall to wall, totally isolating it from the rest of that bay. Next in line, in that bay, is the battery compartment which is an isolated cubby in the middle of the coach with access through the bay east/west wall into the wide cargo bay. On the street side of that bay, the fuel tank is short of full coach width, in order to allow room for the AquaHot and a street side fuel fill plenum, over the top of the AquaHot. That configuration also provides the additional benefit of making all fuel pickups and returns easily accessible, either from the top surface of the fuel tank, just inboard of the AquaHot, or on the top surface of the fuel fill plenum.

Thinking out loud, I wonder if Foretravel intentionally designed in an second layer of safety. If the caulking of a propane compartment seal has been breached, then the curbside propane compartment, can communicate with the battery compartment, streetside. I have seen that condition numerous times, where DIY's have removed the sealing panel and failed to reestablished the propane seal integrity. Designing in a second layer of safety could be why nothing that could produce a spark (if say a wire was loose or a terminal was to be removed and reinstalled or a switch or relay contact was opened or closed) would be installed in a compartment that had a high potential for not being totally isolated from the propane container.

Of course the second layer of safety, in and by itself, doesn't meet code or common sense in that batteries and propane containers should never be located in the same compartment, but it does make sense from a Probabilistic Risk Assessment (PRA) perspective: Frequently DIY's don't understand the need for and therefore fail to reestablish the propane compartment seal integrity. Now, from a PRA frequency of use standpoint, remote locks could get used several times a day, always with the bay door closed (potentially a rich, explosive mixture), while removal/installation of battery terminals occurs much, much less frequently, always with the bay door open (potentially dilute mixture). Due to the physical weight, size and sealed case characteristics of the batteries, the batteries do not represent much of a theft or tampering risk. So, from a frequency of catastrophic event exposure, not installing remotely actuated lock mechanisms makes excellent, additional layer of safety, PRA sense. Providing a manual lock on the battery compartment further enhances security.

Just thinking out loud. The curiosity continues.
HTH,
Neal

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