Water line confusion

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Water line confusion

August 24, 2018, 07:03:27 am

So wonder why the water manifold seems so confusing on this coach? I would like to simplify it. I figured a direct fill after the intake filters controlled by a switch. And not use city water except to fill. Keep the 2 drains from the tank, 1 to drain it,1 to the pump which would go to the manifold. Currently there are 7 shut off valves, and not sure why. Will need some way to flush and winterize the lines. The electric solonoid valve at the pump is for filling the tank I guess, but you have to set a complex series of valves first. I would want to not have to do that. The only time I want to mess the shut off valves is winterizing and draing the tank.
So what are you all using?

Re: Water line confusion

Reply #1 – August 24, 2018, 08:01:38 am

All the valves let you shut off a system that might have a problem without shutting all water off. Example, bathroom sink starts leaking on the hot side, you shut that system off and still haven't wrecked your day.

Re: Water line confusion

Reply #2 – August 24, 2018, 08:05:17 am

You've got a manablock plumbing set up that isolates each water outlet in your coach. My coach is older and does not have it. I wish it did. It makes it easier should the need arrise to isolate a leak or change a faucet.

I would not change this set up.

It won't interfere if you install a direct fill. It also won't effect winterizing as long as you open all the valves to do so.

Re: Water line confusion

Reply #3 – August 24, 2018, 09:26:33 am

Don't mess with the manabloc. Winterizing your coach gets all of the water out of the entire system and puts RV antifreeze in the lines (not the fresh tank).

A direct fill is a means to get water into the fresh tank without going through the existing plumbing. Filling your tank now using the hose and the fill valve (manual or solenoid) fills the tank from the bottom of the tank pushing against all the water already there. Trying to fill using gravity will be very slow or not possible. So a direct fill entry point is usually near the top of the tank where it is easy to add water without working against the tank pressure. Mine if on the drivers side a bit more than 1" from the top. I can fill my 100+ gallon tank in about 15 minutes using this fill point. Going through the plumbing it takes twice as long.

Search for direct fill. This has been done often and in many ways.

Fresh Water Fill Valve

Re: Water line confusion

Reply #4 – August 24, 2018, 10:41:17 am

Bob,

I certainly sympathize with you on this one. I have been tinkering with this complex system over the past few days. Turned out to be two simi-related problems. One was the check valve near the hose reel had some calcification which prevented it from closing properly. The other problem was also calcification in the solenoid valve located adjacent to the water pump.

In both cases I just had to disassemble the valves and clean them up. Problem solved. Or Not. The real dilemma came when I went to reinstall the solenoid valve. I failed to take a picture before I removed the solenoid valve. Trying to figure out the logic of the plumbing system is ---trying. I finally ended up just installing the valve and pressuring up the system. I had a fifty-fifty chance of installing it in the right direction and of course I lost that bet.

Even when I am in an RV park with water available at my site, I prefer to use water from my tank through the water pump. I use the park's water only to fill the tank. In this instance it only requires a very simple plumbing system. However, to have the option to change between filling the tank and using city water in the coach plumbing system with the simple touch of a single switch, it requires a much more complex plumbing system.

Re: Water line confusion

Reply #5 – August 24, 2018, 12:15:47 pm

For drilling direct fill hole in water tank, inserting a rubber grommet that manufacturers use is the recommended method. Water tight, no glue or screws:

Water Tank Gravity Fill

Re: Water line confusion

Reply #6 – August 24, 2018, 12:31:32 pm

These come in differend sizes. 3/4'' UNISEAL Flexible Tank Adapter. They work very well.
3/4'' UNISEAL Flexible Tank Adapter (bulkhead): Amazon.com: Industrial &...
Some care needed when drilling holes for any of these to get the right size hole and keep debris out of the tank.

There are spin weld bulkhead fittings for the kind of plastic the fresh tank is made from.
Amazon.com: Ameri-Kart (53) 0.5" Female Pipe Fitting: Automotive
They come in different sizes too. It is not likely you can successgully spin weld these on but you can glue then on. Almost nothing sticks to the plastic ipused for the fresh tank but this does.
3M 4693H High Performance Industrial Plastic Adhesive, Amber, 5 Ounce:...
It is sort of a super contact cement. Works well.

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: Water line confusion

Reply #7 – August 24, 2018, 10:28:50 pm

Quote from: Roger & Susan in Home2 – August 24, 2018, 12:31:32 pm

These come in differend sizes. 3/4'' UNISEAL Flexible Tank Adapter. They work very well.

Roger I am a bit confused about these. the ad says this "3/4'' UNISEAL Uniseals are used to attach pipe to just about any container in situation where bulkheads will not work. The most common use is on curved surfaces such as storage drums, buckets, and even other pipe. Designed for 3/4" SCH PVC pipe. 3/4'' Uniseal Specs: Pipe ID - 3/4'' (19mm) Pipe OD - '' (27mm) Holesaw size: 1 1/4'' (32mm) Up to 3/8" Wall Thickness. (9mm) Made in the USA"

but when I look up the dimemsions of PVC these are the dimensions for the PVC pipe. So if i use a 1/2" pvc with a OD of 0.840 will it go into the seal hold of .750??

Pipe Size
(SCH 40) Actual OD (Decimal) Actual OD Fraction) Actual OD (Metric)
1/2 in. PVC Pipe 0.840 in. 13/16 in. 21.33 mm
3/4 in. PVC Pipe 1.050 in. 1-1/16 in. 26.67 mm .

.

Re: Water line confusion

Reply #8 – August 25, 2018, 10:29:17 am

Quote from: Jan & Richard – August 24, 2018, 10:41:17 am

Bob,

I certainly sympathize with you on this one. I have been tinkering with this complex system over the past few days. Turned out to be two simi-related problems. One was the check valve near the hose reel had some calcification which prevented it from closing properly. The other problem was also calcification in the solenoid valve located adjacent to the water pump.

In both cases I just had to disassemble the valves and clean them up. Problem solved. Or Not. The real dilemma came when I went to reinstall the solenoid valve. I failed to take a picture before I removed the solenoid valve. Trying to figure out the logic of the plumbing system is ---trying. I finally ended up just installing the valve and pressuring up the system. I had a fifty-fifty chance of installing it in the right direction and of course I lost that bet.

Even when I am in an RV park with water available at my site, I prefer to use water from my tank through the water pump. I use the park's water only to fill the tank. In this instance it only requires a very simple plumbing system. However, to have the option to change between filling the tank and using city water in the coach plumbing system with the simple touch of a single switch, it requires a much more complex plumbing system.

I too would prefer to use the water from my tank and not use the city water option, just to fill the tank. And on my coach its not just the touch of a switch to change between them, but moving several (7) valves which are confusing. I posted this on my pad at the time so was limited to how many pics I posted. I am NOT referring to the monoblock. That is fine, a good system. I am referring to the rats nest of plumbing from the fill hose to the tank and then out to the exit. It is very confusing. I have plumbed homes, and boats but this is a bit.... confusing.
Speaking of the monoblock, the water I assume enters from the bottom, goes thru the cold side and exits on the top to...? Aquahot I assume, then back to the top of the monoblock, then down and exits out the bottom to drain the system correct?
A couple more pics of my "system". Then there are the two coming off the intake water filters labeled T and C, which I assume mean tank and city.
So what if I changed to solenoid valve to the wet bay side, put in a fill at the top of the tank as Roger suggests, with the electrical valve, so a simple switch will turn it on to fill the tank, and get rid of the confusing T and C valves and just run off the tank? Any downsides to this that I don't see at this time?

Re: Water line confusion

Reply #9 – August 25, 2018, 10:55:09 am

Bob, our coaches are just a few numbers apart and I don't know what has been changed on yours. On mine if you hook up the fresh water hose and push the water fill button (with the water pump off) it fills the tank. Turn off the water fill button and turn on the water pump and it draws out of the tank even if the hose is hooked up.

Re: Water line confusion

Reply #10 – August 25, 2018, 10:57:11 am

Bob,

Bob,

I personally would hesitate to change the water system around too much as some future owner (these coaches will outlive our RVing lives) may prefer to switch back and forth between tank and city usage. If I were to modify the system I would do as Roger suggests. I would add a separate tank filling hose on the street side that is just a simple pipe directly into the upper area of the tank.

This would allow you to fill your tank any time with no check valves, solenoid valves or any other valves. Then you just leave all the valve settings in the "tank" mode and your coach water system uses off the tank via the water pump.

Richard

Re: Water line confusion

Reply #11 – August 25, 2018, 01:43:54 pm

Quote from: craneman – August 25, 2018, 10:55:09 am

Bob, our coaches are just a few numbers apart and I don't know what has been changed on yours. On mine if you hook up the fresh water hose and push the water fill button (with the water pump off) it fills the tank. Turn off the water fill button and turn on the water pump and it draws out of the tank even if the hose is hooked up.

I wish that was the way on mine but alas its not. A previous owner must have changed things cause when you look at my pictures it don't look professionally done. I will post a pic on the wet bay side. Its confusing. I think I can make it a lot better, for me and anyone that comes after, while getting rid of some hose that is not needed. Will have to look at it. I want to be able to fill the tank by solonoid, from inside so the fill switch works. Right now, it doesn't unless you mess with 4 shut off valves. I know Foretravel didn't make it this way... I mean, who would?

Re: Water line confusion

Reply #12 – August 26, 2018, 09:09:17 am

additional photos of the wet bay on the drivers side. Hose goes to 2 filters with pressure reducer then to this twin valve arrangement.
This was the first of my head scratching area. Is this the same setup you have, or is this added after by a PO?

Re: Water line confusion

Reply #13 – August 26, 2018, 09:51:07 am

Steve, if you are using a 1/2" PVC pipe then use the 1/2" size UNISEAL grommet. Once you get the grommet in the hole the 1/2" PVC will be a tight fit. A wet pipe is easier to push and twist in.

Re: Water line confusion

Reply #14 – August 26, 2018, 10:19:19 am

Quote from: Bob and Julie – August 26, 2018, 09:09:17 am

additional photos of the wet bay on the drivers side. Hose goes to 2 filters with pressure reducer then to this twin valve arrangement.
This was the first of my head scratching area. Is this the same setup you have, or is this added after by a PO?

Definitely added by a PO

Re: Water line confusion

Reply #15 – August 26, 2018, 10:51:01 am

Quote from: craneman – August 26, 2018, 10:19:19 am

Definitely added by a PO

Yup.

Re: Water line confusion

Reply #16 – August 26, 2018, 11:16:14 am

Quote from: Roger & Susan in Home2 – August 26, 2018, 09:51:07 am

Steve, if you are using a 1/2" PVC pipe then use the 1/2" size UNISEAL grommet. Once you get the grommet in the hole the 1/2" PVC will be a tight fit. A wet pipe is easier to push and twist in.

Thank you Sir

Re: Water line confusion

Reply #17 – August 26, 2018, 11:38:02 am

Quote from: Super8mm – August 24, 2018, 10:28:50 pm

I am a bit confused...

Steve,

Link below to a photo of the 1/2" UNISEAL in action. Make sure you use PVC pipe with the seal. 1/2" PEX tube, for instance, is a different O.D. and will not work.

What did you do to your coach today VII

Re: Water line confusion

Reply #18 – August 26, 2018, 12:30:41 pm

Pipe and tube are very different sizes. PEX is a tube.

If you can do a 3/4" PVC pipe it will fill faster. Be sure to include a check valve or like Chuck did, an actual valve. Check valves are passive, no user action required. If you are anywhere where freezing temps are possible make sure the hose end is higher than the tank end so that it it will drain.

Re: Water line confusion

Reply #19 – August 26, 2018, 12:58:35 pm

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – August 26, 2018, 11:38:02 am

Steve,

Link below to a photo of the 1/2" UNISEAL in action. Make sure you use PVC pipe with the seal. 1/2" PEX pipe, for instance, is a different O.D. and will not work.

What did you do to your coach today VII

Thanks Chuck, I have the PVC so I guess I need the flex seal, valve and hose end. I also have PVC primer and glue.

I am going to see if that site had the valve and hose fitting, I hate to pay $3.50 for shipping on a $1.53 part "LOL"

Re: Water line confusion

Reply #20 – August 26, 2018, 02:34:29 pm

Quote from: Super8mm – August 26, 2018, 12:58:35 pm

I hate to pay $3.50 for shipping on a $1.53 part "LOL"

I know what you mean. You can get everything except the UNISEAL at Lowes/Home Depot. I originally ordered a half dozen of the white 1/2" seals, so I could carry some spares for future projects. I have already given away 4 of them to other coach owners, leaving me just one spare. I show people my fast-fill pipe, and they say "NEAT! I wish I had one of those seals so I could do that........". You know what happens next.

They also have the seals in black at Amazon. Higher price, but free shipping if Prime member!

1/2" UNISEAL Flexible Tank Adapter (Bulkhead) - 2 Pack: Amazon.com: Industria...

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Re: Water line confusion

Reply #21 – August 26, 2018, 07:47:35 pm

I just bought 6 here only $3.16 shipping

1/2'' White Original UNISEAL - aussieglobe.com

Re: Water line confusion

Reply #22 – August 27, 2018, 02:55:30 pm

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – August 26, 2018, 02:34:29 pm

I know what you mean. You can get everything except the UNISEAL at Lowes/Home Depot. I originally ordered a half dozen of the white 1/2" seals, so I could carry some spares for future projects. I have already given away 4 of them to other coach owners, leaving me just one spare. I show people my fast-fill pipe, and they say "NEAT! I wish I had one of those seals so I could do that........". You know what happens next.

Thanks Chuck, I do have another question about filling the tank. are our tanks vented so air can bleed off while filling?

If not I may stick another one for a vent.

Re: Water line confusion

Reply #23 – August 27, 2018, 03:33:22 pm

Quote from: Super8mm – August 27, 2018, 02:55:30 pm

Thanks Chuck, I do have another question about filling the tank. are our tanks vented so air can bleed off while filling?

If not I may stick another one for a vent.

The overflow is the vent.

Re: Water line confusion

Reply #24 – August 27, 2018, 04:02:39 pm

Quote from: craneman – August 27, 2018, 03:33:22 pm

The overflow is the vent.

Thanks craneman, my old 5er had a very small vent on top of the filler and you had to go slow filling.

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