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Re: 86 GV, generator runs well but NO electricity

Quote from: Subsilked –
Its been cold here in Boulder, CO.. snow last 2 days.. went out to start up the coach and run the Gen Set for 1/2 hour...

Gen Set started up right away but needed to help a bit with a manual choke ..  running at good RPM.. but about 20 minutes later noticed that the Microwave clock was not blinking.. refrigerator was not connection to AC power and the roof AC would not come on... BUT all lights, water pump and wall plugs are all working.... 

Not sure what this means...      we don't have 30amp or 50 amp power at home to plug into shore power to check the systems away from the Gen Set.

Any ideas ???


Posted a photo of the right side of the starter box...  cannot reach behind as the gen set does to slide out... the black box is mounted flush to the gen set so there is no BACK of the box available.  Thinking these two " switches " are the breakers you all are talking about.... 
1986 Grand Villa, 454 Chevrolet, 33 SBI tag axle
Build # 2658
2nd owner, original owner was Newman/Freeman Racing, racer Bill Freeman and actor/racer Paul Newman

Re: 86 GV, generator runs well but NO electricity

Reply #1 –
Here attached is a screenshot of a 1999 Emerald model.. name as ours but we have 86.... but the markings for breakers are still visible... ... should we run the gen set and toggle the switches.... we toggled yesterday without running the unit and no change in AC power from gen set...
1986 Grand Villa, 454 Chevrolet, 33 SBI tag axle
Build # 2658
2nd owner, original owner was Newman/Freeman Racing, racer Bill Freeman and actor/racer Paul Newman

Re: Re: 86 GV, generator runs well but NO electricity

Reply #2 –
If the generator is running, only a couple of "failure points".
Those two breakers on the generator itself.
Junction where generator wiring connects to coach wiring.
ATS

Grab your voltmeter and check those points for power.

Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Re: 86 GV, generator runs well but NO electricity

Reply #3 –
I had this issue. It ended up being a stuck ATS (automatic transfer switch). I called my friend James, the awesome service manager at TN TV. He told me to find the ATS, and tap it with a hammer. One tap and I was good to go. Never happened again.
1993 U300 40ft GV SE
Build # 4344

Re: Re: 86 GV, generator runs well but NO electricity

Reply #4 –
Quote from: Jeff & Sandy –
I had this issue. It ended up being a stuck ATS (automatic transfer switch). I called my friend James, the awesome service manager at TN TV. He told me to find the ATS, and tap it with a hammer. One tap and I was good to go. Never happened again.

Brett has said the same thing... fine the ATS..  i will follow the shore power line behind the plug and see where this ATS box is... Brett says that the power cord coming from the Gen Set should go to the same box.. i thought i would take the coach up to our nearby RV resort and plug into shore power to insure things are good with direct source

1986 Grand Villa, 454 Chevrolet, 33 SBI tag axle
Build # 2658
2nd owner, original owner was Newman/Freeman Racing, racer Bill Freeman and actor/racer Paul Newman

Re: Re: 86 GV, generator runs well but NO electricity

Reply #5 –
Check under the bed.
1993 U300 40ft GV SE
Build # 4344

Re: Re: 86 GV, generator runs well but NO electricity

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Jeff & Sandy –
Check under the bed.

Brett was very helpful on the phone... i am posting photos of the inside of the ATS box.. ( under the bed , of course)... there is a red small gauge wire that appears to be broken from a post..  but cannot find any obvious place th re-attach....  i have looked with my IPhone and magnify the image and cannot find a post with a missing wire unless this RED wire ( blue tape) was sharing a post ... 
1986 Grand Villa, 454 Chevrolet, 33 SBI tag axle
Build # 2658
2nd owner, original owner was Newman/Freeman Racing, racer Bill Freeman and actor/racer Paul Newman

Re: 86 GV, generator runs well but NO electricity

Reply #7 –
Subsilked, check the obvious, power out put straight out of the genset. you can use a voltage meter, I would look at where the wires coming out of the genset to a gang box (electrical box in the generator bay, upper right hand corner?) to check for voltage coming straight from the generator, before it even goes to the transfer switch or the electrical breaker box. If no power is coming from the generator while running and you have reset the breakers (light switches on the gen set) then you need to have it checked out by a pro!
Could be the bridge rectifier behind the manual start switch. Had this happen to me, worked great one minute, nothing the next. Good luck !
And Yes the generator should be running when you reset the switches
1987 Grand Villa OREG 460 SBID

Re: 86 GV, generator runs well but NO electricity

Reply #8 –
Quote from: Travelray –
Subsilked, check the obvious, power out put straight out of the genset. you can use a voltage meter, I would look at where the wires coming out of the genset to a gang box (electrical box in the generator bay, upper right hand corner?) to check for voltage coming straight from the generator, before it even goes to the transfer switch or the electrical breaker box. If no power is coming from the generator while running and you have reset the breakers (light switches on the gen set) then you need to have it checked out by a pro!
Could be the bridge rectifier behind the manual start switch. Had this happen to me, worked great one minute, nothing the next. Good luck !
And Yes the generator should be running when you reset the switches

Thanks Travelray... would love to see photos of your coach... these FEG coaches are almost extinct...

I have posted photos to this posting to show what i have discovered.  There is a RED small gauge wire that has broken from a screw post... but cannot find where.... the natural curve of the wire made it lay down on the floor of the ATS box  and was positioned at the bottom ( bottom of the photo) but there is no obvious post where the wire was laying...  unless this red gmail gauge was sharing a post with another white wire i cannot find the spot it broke from.. 
1986 Grand Villa, 454 Chevrolet, 33 SBI tag axle
Build # 2658
2nd owner, original owner was Newman/Freeman Racing, racer Bill Freeman and actor/racer Paul Newman

Re: 86 GV, generator runs well but NO electricity

Reply #9 –
Subsilked, my coach is at a storage lot so I can't get to it at the moment. I'll try in the next few days to take at look for you, but in the mean time you can plug in to shore power and no it does not have to be 30 or 50 amp, 15 or 20 will do as long as you don't use your air conditioner. Make sure that you tape up that broken wire with electrical tape and then plug into the house/garage and you can use everything in the coach, just not all at once and no a/c.
Now if I am seeing correctly, that broken wire is coming from the top center (T) wire terminal between the terminal blocks correct?
1987 Grand Villa OREG 460 SBID

Re: 86 GV, generator runs well but NO electricity

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Travelray –
Subsilked, my coach is at a storage lot so I can't get to it at the moment. I'll try in the next few days to take at look for you, but in the mean time you can plug in to shore power and no it does not have to be 30 or 50 amp, 15 or 20 will do as long as you don't use your air conditioner. Make sure that you tape up that broken wire with electrical tape and then plug into the house/garage and you can use everything in the coach, just not all at once and no a/c.
Now if I am seeing correctly, that broken wire is coming from the top center (T) wire terminal between the terminal blocks correct?

Again thanks.    The " T" is the connections between the two left and right sides???    I think i follow your reasoning but cannot find a post of a missing wire connection....    i pulled the red loose wire UP thru the other wires to take a photo .. but it was originally " found" on the floor of the ATS at bottom of the photo...  it's natural aged curve of wire make it seem it was headed to the " T" but again cannot find a missing wire or an empty post... 
1986 Grand Villa, 454 Chevrolet, 33 SBI tag axle
Build # 2658
2nd owner, original owner was Newman/Freeman Racing, racer Bill Freeman and actor/racer Paul Newman

Re: 86 GV, generator runs well but NO electricity

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Subsilked –
Again thanks.    The " T" is the connections between the two left and right sides???    I think i follow your reasoning but cannot find a post of a missing wire connection....    i pulled the red loose wire UP thru the other wires to take a photo .. but it was originally " found" on the floor of the ATS at bottom of the photo...  it's natural aged curve of wire make it seem it was headed to the " T" but again cannot find a missing wire or an empty post...


May have found a receptacle for the loose wire inside the ATS box... there is a metal canister like device that is now empty.. see attached photo with markings.  Not sure how to re-insert.. dont know what's missing from the red wire end to " plug' into the receptacle... back end of the cannister is just a thin metal wire that goes to one of the posts in the " T" of the switch boxes..    cant imagine its a bare wire plug in.. must be some kind of socket plug at end of red wire that fits into the cannister...  lets see what you all experts think... thanks for the great advice. 


EDIT;  Appears with some internet sleuthing.  Its a 200v Capacitor ... not sure what the original end looked like to know what to fix..



1986 Grand Villa, 454 Chevrolet, 33 SBI tag axle
Build # 2658
2nd owner, original owner was Newman/Freeman Racing, racer Bill Freeman and actor/racer Paul Newman

Re: 86 GV, generator runs well but NO electricity

Reply #12 –
Sub,

Now you have just posted a pic. of what looks to be going on.  The 2uf capacitor has failed.  It isn't just a plug back in kind of thing. You will need to get a new capicitor and install it back in place.  That is a $0.20 or less item.

Mike
Pamela & Mike 97 U 320

"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters."

Re: 86 GV, generator runs well but NO electricity

Reply #13 –
That is a 2uf capacitor. It would originally have looked like a condenser on your old chevy that you had in high school single wire out the end . It has blown apart . Probably time for a new transfer switch. Is anything else printed on the body ?
You should be able to get one at Radio Shack any 2uf 200-250 volt will work.
91 GV U300 Unihome 40' Build 3811
6V92TA Detroit

Re: 86 GV, generator runs well but NO electricity

Reply #14 –
Quote from: Pamela & Mike –
Sub,

Now you have just posted a pic. of what looks to be going on.  The 2uf capacitor has failed.  It isn't just a plug back in kind of thing. You will need to get a new capicitor and install it back in place.  That is a $0.20 or less item.

Mike

OK Mike.  The back end of the capacitor has just a thin wire going to a post..  the now open end would have had a plug for the red wire to attach ???    OR is this capacitor blown open NOT related to the loose red wire missing a connection ????
1986 Grand Villa, 454 Chevrolet, 33 SBI tag axle
Build # 2658
2nd owner, original owner was Newman/Freeman Racing, racer Bill Freeman and actor/racer Paul Newman

Re: 86 GV, generator runs well but NO electricity

Reply #15 –
If you look close at the red wire it has a little wire that is actually going into the blue crimp connector.  It appears that the capacitor came apart/failed and the red wire came loose.  The red wire will connect to one end of the new capacitor and the other end of the capacitor will connect to where the old dead capacitor is still connected. You will need to remove the old capacitor to be able to see what you will need to connect a new one with.

After relooking at one photo the capacitor is hooked to one of the white wires. You will need a ring terminal to make up a new connection.

Mike
Pamela & Mike 97 U 320

"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters."

Re: 86 GV, generator runs well but NO electricity

Reply #16 –
Quote from: stump –
That is a 2uf capacitor. It would originally have looked like a condenser on your old chevy that you had in high school single wire out the end . It has blown apart . Probably time for a new transfer switch. Is anything else printed on the body ?
You should be able to get one at Radio Shack any 2uf 200-250 volt will work.

Mike..  the capacitor i find on line or spec photos dont have a gauge wire inbound..  what would the top of this. Capacitor have looked like ?  Thanks for all of the forum help with a NON electrician new RV owner. 
1986 Grand Villa, 454 Chevrolet, 33 SBI tag axle
Build # 2658
2nd owner, original owner was Newman/Freeman Racing, racer Bill Freeman and actor/racer Paul Newman

Re: 86 GV, generator runs well but NO electricity

Reply #17 –
Look for  2uf 200v axial capacitor. The leads will come out each end.  I have to run off right now for an appointment or I would look up one  for you. Hopefully someone will chime in while I'm gone with a link to what you need.

Mike
Pamela & Mike 97 U 320

"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters."

Re: 86 GV, generator runs well but NO electricity

Reply #19 –
Thanks Stump for finding that while I was away.

Sub,

Even though the capacitor that Stump posted looks different something like that would work for you even better that the OEM.  Reason being is the wire leads will be better for this application than the single lead that you have now.

Mike
Pamela & Mike 97 U 320

"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters."

Re: 86 GV, generator runs well but NO electricity

Reply #20 –
Quote from: Pamela & Mike –
Thanks Stump for finding that while I was away.

Sub,

Even though the capacitor that Stump posted looks different something like that would work for you even better that the OEM.  Reason being is the wire leads will be better for this application than the single lead that you have now.

Mike

Thanks..  i hope there is a YouTube video somewhere on this.  There appears to be a uncovered lead wire at back end of the capacitor that runs to a post.      As mentioned before.  I am NO where near an electrician... i can certainly splice and connect wires together safety and securely but i have no knowledge of why something may be connected together... i wil network here in boulder for some help.  Thanks so much for this great forum ...  we will post more as we tackle this project
1986 Grand Villa, 454 Chevrolet, 33 SBI tag axle
Build # 2658
2nd owner, original owner was Newman/Freeman Racing, racer Bill Freeman and actor/racer Paul Newman

Re: 86 GV, generator runs well but NO electricity

Reply #21 –
There appears to be a uncovered lead wire at back end of the capacitor that runs to a post.
Yes. The red wire that is hanging loose originally went into that open hole in the capacitor body and was crimp in. The wide flat piece hanging out of it now was inside that small tube.
It was all sealed up. Red wire came out one end and bare wire out other end.
The capacitor I posted has 2 wires one will go to each point wires you have now are.

91 GV U300 Unihome 40' Build 3811
6V92TA Detroit

Re: Re: Re: 86 GV, generator runs well but NO electricity

Reply #22 –
I'd look at where its twin terminates on the right side, then look for the broken connector at the equivalent spot on the left.
Regards,
Brett

'99 42' Foretravel Xtreme
'14 Brown Motorsports Stacker
'05 Chevy SSR
'02 BMW R1150R

Re: Re: 86 GV, generator runs well but NO electricity

Reply #23 –
We may have gotten a little bit off the original topic here.

While there clearly is an issue inside the ATS, we do NOT know if 120 VAC is "arriving" at the ATS from the generator.

Hate to see all the focus on replacing a capacitor with no assistance in getting generator power to the coach.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: 86 GV, generator runs well but NO electricity

Reply #24 –
That's what I said earlier
1987 Grand Villa OREG 460 SBID