HWH leveling....dumb question.

Topic: HWH leveling....dumb question. (Read 2078 times) previous topic - next topic

HWH leveling....dumb question.

October 16, 2018, 06:07:46 pm

Does the HWH leveling get it's power supply from the house or the chassis batteries???
Still trying to get the system to "Wake up" from sleep mode..
Did a full service @ Cummins NW (Coburg, OR) and they found two wiring connections on the chassis battery side that had corrosion & were loose..(well hidden from view)
Coach has sat for 24 hours and seems still level.. but I have not seen or felt it re-level....
Thinking that just mebbe it has been a power to the HWH controller all along.... if the HWH is powered by the chassis batteries vs the coach batteries..
Thoughts anyone?.........

Re: HWH leveling....dumb question.

Reply #1 – October 16, 2018, 06:42:16 pm

Yes the key must be on to initially level the coach and when the coach is level, one can turn off the key..
But when the system goes to sleep, where does the system draw power to wake up....Chassis batteries or the coach batteries?
I have fought this issue(not waking up from sleep mode to "self check") for the last several years and am not sure the issue is resolved just yet..

Re: HWH leveling....dumb question.

Reply #2 – October 16, 2018, 07:05:49 pm

You have my curiosity peaked. I raised my air leveled system by running air up to 90 lbs, activated the self leveling, turned off the key, self leveling light stayed on, went out disconnected ground to chassis battery. The self leveling light is still on. hmmm??

So many issues are caused by a bad ground. The extremes were one customer that replaced 3 convection microwaves under warranty, ultimate cause, a bad ground. Another 2013 Monaco (Navistar owned at the time) the mfg. spent $20,000 plus chasing a bad ground at a CA dealership under the guidance of their engineers, the first year in 2014, replacing the entire wiring harness (not easy to do), and then still had the rv fail on the hwy., ultimately finding another bad ground connection. Even the best can have problems trying to diagnose this issue.

Re: HWH leveling....dumb question.

Reply #3 – October 16, 2018, 07:28:33 pm

The system is initiated when you turn the key, so that would indicate that it is on the chassis (starter batteries)..So I'm thinking that when in sleep mode,(little blinky light goes dim then out) it becomes a parasite draw on the chassis batteries as well...dunno

Re: HWH leveling....dumb question.

Reply #4 – October 16, 2018, 07:39:32 pm

According to wiring schematics in the owners manual of my '01 WTFE, "HWH Memory" is on the house battery buss, and "HWH Computer" on the chassis buss...probably the rest of the working bits of the system on chassis buss as well to provide pre-start lockouts for height and slides, etc. FWIW, my "AIR (LEVEL)" light stays on steady when in camp level mode with the key off. Seems to work as advertised tho, kicking on the electric pump as needed and keeping the coach level. Only had the coach 6 weeks, so still learning myself.

Re: HWH leveling....dumb question.

Reply #5 – October 16, 2018, 07:40:10 pm

I think the control is on the chassis side and the compressor on the house side perhaps.

Re: HWH leveling....dumb question.

Reply #6 – October 16, 2018, 07:56:54 pm

saddlesore,

IIRC on your coach the HWH-CPU power comes off breaker 11 and the HWH memory comes off breaker 49 (both of these are hid in the breaker panel that is behind the passengers side kick panel. #11 comes off the switched side of the starting battery the 49 should come off the non switched side (power all the time) off the start battery. The HWH compressor runs off the # 13 relay that is in the same area as the breakers and it is fed off the house batteries.

Now remember the first thing IIRC as I don't have an '02 B-2179 right here with me.

Mike

Re: HWH leveling....dumb question.

Reply #7 – October 16, 2018, 08:58:41 pm

The ONLY thing that draws power from the start battery with the key off is a cigarette lighter plug in the dash. For those of you with computers I don't count because the draw is so minimal.

Re: HWH leveling....dumb question.

Reply #8 – October 16, 2018, 09:47:07 pm

Its on the chassis (start ) battery. I know that for a fact, cause if you level it with the coach off, and a power meter plugged in, you will see the volts go down. And the key doesn't have to be on, at least on my U320. I just did it not a few hours ago. Needed to raise the rear to access the fuel filter. Did not put the key in, turned to leveling system on and the plug in battery volt meter went down.
Dont' know about the compressor side of it, because it rarely comes on.

Re: HWH leveling....dumb question.

Reply #9 – October 17, 2018, 02:07:08 am

Thanks to all..will let the coach sit for another day or three, then check to see if still level (have air leak so it should go out of level if correcting the bad connections did not solve the mystery)

Re: HWH leveling....dumb question.

Reply #10 – October 17, 2018, 07:00:21 am

On my 05 drawing, the HWH CPU is initialized by the ignition circuit. The HWH MEM is off the coach battery and goes to what is labeled HWH BATT. I am assuming this is the Battery input of the HWH system. So on mine the HWH can only be started with ignition on, but levels off of the coach battery.

Re: HWH leveling....dumb question.

Reply #11 – October 17, 2018, 09:37:55 am

Quote from: Bob and Julie – October 16, 2018, 09:47:07 pm

Its on the chassis (start ) battery. I know that for a fact, cause if you level it with the coach off, and a power meter plugged in, you will see the volts go down. And the key doesn't have to be on, at least on my U320. I just did it not a few hours ago. Needed to raise the rear to access the fuel filter. Did not put the key in, turned to leveling system on and the plug in battery volt meter went down.
Dont' know about the compressor side of it, because it rarely comes on.

Take the ground off the start battery and I bet it still works. Or perhaps all of your batteries have been combined. Foretravel (and most decent rigs) built in the safeguard so you will always be able to start the coach.

Also......if you have 2 lighter plugs in your dash, 1 is connected to start battery and 1 is connected to house battery. Perhaps you are monitoring the house plug. Just a thought.

Re: HWH leveling....dumb question.

Reply #12 – October 17, 2018, 10:55:19 am

Twig,
It's not that it would not level when the key is initially turned on, that part worked OK.
ie: after a period of time I could visually see that the coach had lost air and had went out of level. by turning on the key, the 4 corner indicator lights would confirm, IF I waited (with key back on ) the system would again re-level.
The issue is/was that after the initial leveling and the touch pad blinky light went dim then out,(then turn key off) the system would not "wake up" to do the "am I still level" check every 30 minutes.(or what ever the system level self check time frame is)
So far, after correcting the start battery connections (pos and neg) from batteries thru the various switching controls under the bed to the starter......
It now seems to be checking for "am I level" as it should..

After several years of trying to get it to "wake up" during sleep mode
It's Still level after 72 hrs, so fingers crossed..

Re: HWH leveling....dumb question.

Reply #13 – October 17, 2018, 04:23:20 pm

Saddlesore. After you level, with key off, there will be a single red led at the "level/on" button that should always be ON. In order for it to stay on, you must push the "level/on" button TWICE. It does it's own check system (you'll never be aware of it unless you are OUT of level). Nothing in the HWH system should draw power from the start battery with the ignition switch off.

Actually, you know what. This is how MY system works. Perhaps yours is different.

Re: HWH leveling....dumb question.

Reply #14 – October 17, 2018, 04:53:07 pm

The ignition only triggers travel mode for me. All other leveling functions work as long as the house has 12v through the salesman's switch.

Re: HWH leveling....dumb question.

Reply #15 – October 17, 2018, 09:52:30 pm

Quote from: Twig – October 17, 2018, 04:23:20 pm

Saddlesore. After you level, with key off, there will be a single red led at the "level/on" button that should always be ON. In order for it to stay on, you must push the "level/on" button TWICE. It does it's own check system (you'll never be aware of it unless you are OUT of level). Nothing in the HWH system should draw power from the start battery with the ignition switch off.

Actually, you know what. This is how MY system works. Perhaps yours is different.

Yes I know to push the button twice for auto level..After all is done the system goes into "sleep mode" and all indicator lights would go out.. but it would NOT wake up to do a self check for level...
I have fought this for over 3 years and have sunk a ton of money into it trying to get it to "WAKE UP" from sleep mode.
This coach has been to Foretravel, MOT (twice) Old Town (twice), Oregon Motor Coach, Premier Motor Coach (jct City) and to HWH , Moscow IA(twice). AND NONE of them could produce an answer the following morning as to WHY it DID NOT WAKE UP and re-level on it;s own..
hence My original question as to which battery set powered the system out of sleep mode.to wake up & self check level.
After finding and correcting the faulty connections On The Start/Chassis battery set.. All the way thru all the various electrical components including to the starter...
Now it seems to be waking up and doing the self check for level.. and leveling as needed...
If it continues to wake up and re-level" as needed, I will start chasing down the air leaks.

Re: HWH leveling....dumb question.

Reply #16 – October 17, 2018, 11:14:09 pm

When I push the button twice and it levels the light that was flashing while leveling goes solid and stays on until I turn the HWH off.

Re: HWH leveling....dumb question.

Reply #17 – October 18, 2018, 04:01:18 am

Quote from: Twig – October 17, 2018, 09:37:55 am

Take the ground off the start battery and I bet it still works. Or perhaps all of your batteries have been combined. Foretravel (and most decent rigs) built in the safeguard so you will always be able to start the coach.

Also......if you have 2 lighter plugs in your dash, 1 is connected to start battery and 1 is connected to house battery. Perhaps you are monitoring the house plug. Just a thought.

Nope sorry Twig. I have LiPo4 batteries on the house side and agm's on the start battery side, and know the difference in the voltage. I monitor the start battery right now, cause I have been cranking the hell out of the M11 since changing the fuel hose and the voltage is way down on my agm's. And because of the 2 different chemistry's they don't combine. The boost switch doesn't work anymore. That could have caused a 12K $ mistake.
I am able to make the coach go up or down without putting in the key. All I have to do is press the HWH leveling button once and it goes. But then mine might be different since it has been altered.

Re: HWH leveling....dumb question.

Reply #18 – October 18, 2018, 11:25:07 am

@96 hrs. turned key on and reset the HWH.. Was still level..so on to chasing air leaks & dash wiring gremlins

Re: HWH leveling....dumb question.

Reply #19 – October 24, 2018, 06:12:20 pm

Well... Must have jinxed the system by saying something..... Has reverted back to not waking up...
Key on, tap air button twice, light blinks bright ,then dim,and goes out after a few minutes, key off... 24 hrs later out of level.I just .turn key on, (do not hit any touch pad buttons) light blinks dim , then re-levels and then goes out....then I turn key off for the next 24 hrs....rinse & repeat.

Re: HWH leveling....dumb question.

Reply #20 – October 24, 2018, 08:25:23 pm

I had an issue once trying to level and after trouble shooting found the connection on the back of the HWH panel wasn't making good contact. When I firmly pushed in on the connection it started working normally. This probably isn't your situation but, wanted to offer the info.

Glen

Re: HWH leveling....dumb question. UPDATE !!!!!!!!!

Reply #21 – June 13, 2021, 05:19:45 pm

UPDATE !!!!
After 5 years of trying to get the HWH leveling to "Wake Up" on it's own and re-level. (and 4 sets of broken windshields)
Had system investigated and parts thrown at it ..by.. Old Town, MOT, FOT, Oregon Motor Coach, Premier Motor Coach....
Nothing changed ..It Would NOT Wake Up and re level on it's own....
While in Laughlin NV ended up in a parking space too short to be level.. So Like always, manually re-level every 3 hours.
I got interrupted by something the wife needed and FORGOT to turn the key Off!!
So there we were sitting in the lawn chairs leaning back against the front of the coach and WTF was That??
IT Woke Up And Re-Leveled on It's Own !!!!!
Went to TX for the winter and finally got to 'Nac..
Had several arguments with the FT shop until I blew Up and demanded that they LISTEN TO WHAT I'm SAYING ..Not just giving Me lip service..
The Young man that drew our coach, asked again [away from management ears] what I found .. and I again said that it acts like there is no power to the HWH when the key is off for more than 15 or 20 minutes..
He and his assistant did the normal leveling, then after waiting 45 minutes, manually put the coach out of level and started checking the wiring from A-hole to Elbow..
I'm standing outside the bay when One of them yells AH-HA!! and the other Says "GOT IT!!..
They then ran a new wire from the basement control box, all the way to the "Always Powered" side of the ignition key..
AND IT LEVELED!!
NOW I can sleep all night....unless i gotta go pee...

Re: HWH leveling....dumb question.

Reply #22 – June 13, 2021, 10:01:02 pm

Mine is the same as yours craneman.
When I level my coach and just turn the key off, the red remains on all the time. Hope that is normal as I never hear the compressor come....ever...
oh and the light never dims...it is always bright

Re: HWH leveling....dumb question.

Reply #23 – June 13, 2021, 11:10:40 pm

Quote from: dicksop – June 13, 2021, 10:01:02 pm

Mine is the same as yours craneman.
When I level my coach and just turn the key off, the red remains on all the time. Hope that is normal as I never hear the compressor come....ever...
oh and the light never dims...it is always bright

Are you hitting the on button twice?
Chris

Re: HWH leveling....dumb question.

Reply #24 – June 14, 2021, 05:44:28 pm

Yes I hit the button twice. The red light stays on until I either turn it off or start the engine and hit it twice to level. When I hit it twice it flashes until it levels and then remains on

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