Solar experiment

Topic: Solar experiment (Read 2093 times) previous topic - next topic

Solar experiment

October 21, 2018, 03:43:23 pm

One of the things that I did while on vacation this past couple of weeks was to add a HF solar panel setup temporarily on my roof while in storage to see if it could keep the batteries charged while in storage. I had also added the Amp-L-Start to let the start battery draw off of the house batteries.When I parked the coach, the voltage across the battery terminals was 13.2v. It was cloudy and rainy for the next 4 days. When I checked the voltage again, it had dropped to 12.6 v. Still @ 95%, so not bad, but I still had my concerns. The past 7 days have been mainly bright and sunny. Checked this afternoon, all batteries happy @ 13.1 v. You talk about one happy camper. During this time I had the salesman switch off so less parasitic draws. Over the next few weeks, I hope to be able to try dry camping for the first time. Don't know how well the solar panels will be able to keep me charged for a couple of days, but I will be close enough to home to be able to fix anything.

Larry

Re: Solar experiment

Reply #1 – October 21, 2018, 04:32:08 pm

A HF solar panel is not going to do much for dry camping even if you are all LED lighting unless you are camping at the bare minimum with no TV and very little inverter time. A couple of 300 watt panels will do a lot better with 1200 watts letting you live almost like home. Panel prices are cheap, cheap, cheap now.

Pierce

Re: Solar experiment

Reply #2 – October 21, 2018, 05:05:21 pm

Didn't figure it would be able to carry me through. Mainly bought HF for batteries while in storage . After I get my feet wet, then I will look at building my own system. (getting brave, huh?) I've seen the post you made from a year ago and am mustering up the courage.

. Got a couple of other projects which have a higher priority first though (fuel lines, repair aqua hot coils, VMSPC, .......), but solar is on the radar. Would you still recommend the Yingli panels, or something different?

Larry

Re: Solar experiment

Reply #3 – October 21, 2018, 07:03:50 pm

Quote from: ohsonew – October 21, 2018, 05:05:21 pm

Didn't figure it would be able to carry me through. Mainly bought HF for batteries while in storage . After I get my feet wet, then I will look at building my own system. (getting brave, huh?) I've seen the post you made from a year ago and am mustering up the courage. . Got a couple of other projects which have a higher priority first though (fuel lines, repair aqua hot coils, VMSPC, .......), but solar is on the radar. Would you still recommend the Yingli panels, or something different?
Larry

Larry,

Lots of excellent panels out there. Chinese, American, German, etc. I like the commercial panels (huge fields of panels) for the roof as we go through lots of branches and wanted to make sure, they could take lots of abuse. They have the thick aluminum edges. The down side is that not all coaches can fit several of the large sizes on the roof. I would have had lots of trouble installing on a 96" wide coach as the AC would have put a couple of the panels over the edge but I see yours is 102". I could still add wattage but would have to add smaller panels and then I could not walk on the roof.

Several good controllers out there too. I think I posted a complete source/price list a while back. Ours is working fine almost 10 years later. Just about everything is less expensive now. And yes, you CAN put 1200 watts on the roof and have a complete system including batteries for less than $2000 if you research it.

No courage needed here. just ask by PM or phone for each aspect of the installation. Preplanning sure helps with getting all ducks in a row so you don't end up with Cantonese Pressed Duck

.

Pierce

Re: Solar experiment

Reply #4 – October 21, 2018, 10:04:59 pm

Thanks Pierce, I'm sure we will be talking

Larry

Re: Solar experiment

Reply #5 – October 21, 2018, 11:06:56 pm

I did a DYI solar install after reading Pierce's posts on his install. Found 240w panels for $105 on Craigs list. Did 3 panels and ended up with 720 watts total for under $1200. Solar controller was the big cost $550 but well worth it. I was amazed at how easy it was.

Feel free to PM me if you have questions on install.

see ya
ken

Re: Solar experiment

Reply #6 – October 22, 2018, 02:08:40 am

I just bought a couple 360 watt panels 40" x 67".

Re: Solar experiment

Reply #7 – October 22, 2018, 11:31:29 am

Many of us have done the solar project ourselves. I have four 300 watt commercial panels that cost me about $150 each delivered to MN from Las Vegas. Add in a charge controller (most expensive part) mounting brackets, 3M VHB tape, caulk, cables, fuse panel and battery fuse and a switch, less than $1500 total. A pretty inexpensive project with big benefits.

A Second House Battery Bank, Solar Panels, 2 New Inverters

Re: Solar experiment

Reply #8 – October 22, 2018, 12:03:24 pm

Quote from: Lon and Cheryl – October 22, 2018, 02:08:40 am

I just bought a couple 360 watt panels 40" x 67".

That's about the same size as ours but lots more watts. 360 vs our old 285 for the same size or 1440 watts for four of them. That's an easy 5kWh day day in summer with a fairly open sky. Are they 36 or 48 volt? Good deal?

For newbies to solar, the 1440 watts I mentioned above is just a lab figure with the sun directly overhead and a test temperature of 77 degrees. With the sun 30 degrees from overhead, the output drops almost 14% dropping even more as the sun moves lower. Not bad with the new higher efficiency panels and in my opinion, not worth the risk of climbing a ladder to tilt them.

Pierce

Re: Solar experiment

Reply #9 – October 22, 2018, 01:17:44 pm

I figure total watts on the roof x 10 hrs per day average year round x 25% for sun angles, shade etc.
So 1440 x 10 x .30 = 3600 watts average per day year round. Best days will be more, middle of the winter, less.

With just 3 of our four panels on summer before last we had days of 5.1KW at Gros Ventre in the the Tetons. We spent a week there and a week at Madison in Yellowstone (more shade, no hookups in either place) with zero generator time to charge batteries. That winter in a campground in TX with metered electric we paid about 1/3 what our neighbors paid for electric.

Re: Solar experiment

Reply #10 – October 22, 2018, 07:14:27 pm

We have three 120w panelS on the roof from previous owner. Since Quartzite, last year, we have determined that we are headed to doing more " boondocking" as time goes on, so we want to upsize. We were thinking of going to the infamous Slab City, but now, after reading about self install........

Not my strongest suit.....but I am willing to learn. Roger.....here we go AGAIN........!!!!!

Re: Solar experiment

Reply #11 – October 22, 2018, 08:11:50 pm

Glynn had mine done at slab city Solar Mike 840 watts Outback 80 MPPT controller all done 2300.00. 3 years going strong.

Re: Solar experiment

Reply #12 – October 22, 2018, 08:11:59 pm

I had a pretty good idea how the panels I got would fit, I made a cardboard piece the size of the panels and made sure before I ordered them. Our DirecTV disch is just behind the first AC so there is room of two in front and between the horns (just). Anothe infrint of the rear AC just off spcenter to the curb side. And the last one to the left of the centerline at the back end. I wanted to maintain a maintenance walkway. I had a local metal wizard make me 12" long mounts that are at the correct angle to accomodate the roof curve (not 90°). They attach to the roof with 1.5"x12" 3M VHB tape, no screws. Caulked around the bracket and roof line with 3M 4200 UV. Stainless bolts and nylock nuts.

Not too bad a project. Some work but manageable. For some off grid time it is really pretty nice and very useful. Be sure to do an energy use audit. It is easy to underestimate. Figure out what you need to go overnight. All the solar capacity you have will not help if you do not have sufficient storage capacity.

Let me know if I can help. I got a lot from others here on the Forum and did my own research as well. Always a good idea to educate yourself.

Re: Solar experiment

Reply #13 – October 22, 2018, 08:37:16 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – October 22, 2018, 12:03:24 pm

That's about the same size as ours but lots more watts. 360 vs our old 285 for the same size or 1440 watts for four of them. That's an easy 5kWh day day in summer with a fairly open sky. Are they 36 or 48 volt? Good deal?

For newbies to solar, the 1440 watts I mentioned above is just a lab figure with the sun directly overhead and a test temperature of 77 degrees. With the sun 30 degrees from overhead, the output drops almost 14% dropping even more as the sun moves lower. Not bad with the new higher efficiency panels and in my opinion, not worth the risk of climbing a ladder to tilt them.

Pierce

LG Solar 360w Mono Solar Panel - NeON R - LG360Q1C-A5

LG, NeON R, PV Modules, Mono, Black Frame, MC4 Connectors, Made in Korea LG360Q1C-A5

LG NeON R is a new powerful product with global top level performance. Applied new cell structure without electrodes on the front, LG NeON R maximized the utilization of light and enhanced its reliability. LG NeON R demonstrates LG's efforts to increase customer's values beyond efficiency. It features enhanced warranty, durability, performance under real environment, and aesthetic design suitable for roofs.

Features

Enhanced Performance Warranty - The LG NeON R has been designed to significantly enhance its output making it efficient even in limited space. LG now offers a 25 year product warranty to accomodate performance warranties as well. LG NeON R has an ehanced performance warranty. After 25 years, LG NeON R is guaranteed at least 87.0% of initial performance.

Great Aesthetics and Durability- LG NeON R has been designed with aesthetics in mind: no electoride on the front. Can increase the valud eof a property with its modern design. Can endure a front load up to 6000 Pa, and a rear load up to 5400 Pa.

Better Performance and LID - Now performs better on sunny days thanks to its improved temperature coefficient. Near zero LID (Light Induced Degradation). The n-type cells used in the LG NeON R have almost no boron, which may cause initial performance degradation, leading to less LID.

General Information
Manufacturer:    LG Solar
Product Line:
   NeON R Series
Model ID:
   LG350Q1C-A5
Certifications and Safety Ratings:    ce.giful.jpg vde.jpg mcs.jpg

Mechanical Data

Technology:    Monocrystalline (Mono)
Dimensions:
   66.93 x 40.00 x 1.57 inches
Weight:    40.79 lbs
Cells:    6 x 10
Cell Type:    Monocrystalline / N-Type
Front Load:
   6000 Pa / 125 psf
Rear Load:    5400 Pa / 113 psf
Connector Type:    MC4
Junction Box:    IP68 with 3 Bypass Diodes
Cables:    1000 mm x 2 Ea
Glass:
   High Transmission Tempered Glass
Frame:    Anodized Aluminum
Certifications:    IEC 61215, IEC 61730-1/-2, UL 1703, IEC 61701 (Salt Mist Corrosion Test), IEC 62716 (Ammonia Corrosion Test), ISO 9001
Module Fire Performance (USA):    Type 1
Operating Temperature:    -40°C to +90°C

Electrical Data

Nominal Maximum Power (Pmax):    360 Watts
MPP Voltage (Vmpp):    36.5 Volts
MPP Current (Impp):    9.87 Amps
Open Circuit Voltage (Voc):    42.70 Volts
Short Circuit Voltage (Isc):    10.79 Amps
Module Efficiency:    20.80%

Datasheets

Document    Type
logo-adobe-pdf-2.jpgLG Electronics LG360Q1C-A5 Specs    Specifications
logo-adobe-pdf-2.jpgLG Electronics Installation Guide    Installation Guide
Warranty    25 Year Product Warranty
Performance Guarantee    25 Year Linear Performance Warranty
logo-adobe-pdf-2.jpgLG Electronics Warranty    Warranty

Cost: $453.60 each plus S&H
Bought from SOLARIS

They will be controlled by there own Victron controller.
I have 4 other 300watt panels (bought from Roger) are on there own Victron controller.
all six panels will be able to be tilted from the ground. the panels can tilt past 90 degrees so they can lay over and give me complete access to the roof without walking a tight rope. Total 1920 watts. piped into 10 Lifeline L16 AGM batteries at 400AH@20%
A Victron 3000w Inverter/charger.
I have 4 panels installed and the mounting for the 2 new panels fastened down. I'm now racing the weather, it will be too cold to use adhesives outside any day now.
I will take some pictures when I get the last 2 panels mounted. Batteries all mounted but need to be wired.

Re: Solar experiment

Reply #14 – October 22, 2018, 08:52:03 pm

I like your tilting from the ground. We've already had one too many roof accidents on the forum.

Nice to have a photo from above so we can see how they fit on the roof as well as your tilting mechanism.

You may be the first to break the 10kWh barrier!

Pierce

Re: Solar experiment

Reply #15 – October 22, 2018, 09:08:01 pm

Keep the info coming please. I need all the help I can get

Larry

Re: Solar experiment

Reply #16 – October 22, 2018, 09:20:18 pm

Well after 11 months getting the ducks aligned tomorrow is the day. 10KW of solar panels are going on the roof of our house tomorrow. 120% of our annual consumption. Any excess gets sold back to the utility at retail rates. 30% Federal tax credit on the entire cost of the project (including new roof, tree removal and trimming). Each panel has its own Enphase microinverter (97.5% efficiency) which converts the DC directly to 240 v AC. They are all wired to a coomon feed into the house of back into the grid. Each microinverter reports performance individually and the system collectively to the internet, reporting is available at anytime from your mobile devices or desktop.

Pretty much state of the art, easily expandable, very fault and shade tolerant.

Re: Solar experiment

Reply #17 – October 22, 2018, 09:28:46 pm

Quote from: ohsonew – October 22, 2018, 09:08:01 pm

Keep the info coming please. I need all the help I can get

Larry

At least now and for some time to come the entire cost of your solar installation on your coach qualifies for a 30% Federal tax credit. Panels, mounting, wiring, charge controllers, fuses, switches, inverters, batteries. Everything that can reasonably be part of solar production, energy conversion, storage and use can be included. Be sure to check with a tax professional or do the homework needed to make it so. It is a big help in making it somewhat more affordable and certainly helps in the motivation to get it done too.

Federal Tax Credit of 30% works for systems installed by the end of 2019. The tax credit coes down after that.

Re: Solar experiment

Reply #18 – October 22, 2018, 10:00:20 pm

Roger, does that include more batteries?

Re: Solar experiment

Reply #19 – October 22, 2018, 10:19:01 pm

Lots of great ideas and awesome technical info here. I live in Kansas, same as OP, that being said, we get hail, half dollar size is not that unusual. My coach is stored inside, but when I update my oem solar I will put the panels on a roller guides on one side so I can flip them over with protection on the back side. Thinking about putting my main array on the MC trailer as I can easily get 3 big panels on it, one on the roof, and two easily tiltable ones on the sides. Just a different perspective on solar installs

Re: Solar experiment

Reply #20 – October 22, 2018, 11:44:56 pm

Quote from: rbark – October 22, 2018, 10:00:20 pm

Roger, does that include more batteries?

It does. If you install a solar system to your primary home and add batteries for storage and inverters to go from DC to AC they are all part of the solar energy collection, storage and distribution system. You motorhome is considered a second home assuming you are not renting it out. It is a capital improvement that for tax purposes increases the basis value of your coach. Adding batteries, yes. Replacing existing batteries? Maybe if you make the case that adding batteries of a different age makes the mix not wotk very well. Replacing all with Lithium? Should be OK. Replacing an inverter? If it improves efficiency.

This is a lump sum line item deduction with no specific detail. In this context it may not be big enough to worry about. Keep all of your receipts, documentation, plans, rationale and details.

Review this with your tax professional and follow their advise. Mine always tells me do what makes sense within the scope of what is possible.

When you sell your coach if the selling price is less than the basis value of your coach (purchase price plus capital improvements) that difference is a capital loss that can offset capital gains.

Re: Solar experiment

Reply #21 – October 23, 2018, 08:56:19 am

Quote from: Lon and Cheryl – October 22, 2018, 08:37:16 pm

LG Solar 360w Mono Solar Panel - NeON R - LG360Q1C-A5

LG, NeON R, PV Modules, Mono, Black Frame, MC4 Connectors, Made in Korea LG360Q1C-A5

LG NeON R is a new powerful product with global top level performance. Applied new cell structure without electrodes on the front, LG NeON R maximized the utilization of light and enhanced its reliability. LG NeON R demonstrates LG's efforts to increase customer's values beyond efficiency. It features enhanced warranty, durability, performance under real environment, and aesthetic design suitable for roofs.

Features

Enhanced Performance Warranty - The LG NeON R has been designed to significantly enhance its output making it efficient even in limited space. LG now offers a 25 year product warranty to accomodate performance warranties as well. LG NeON R has an ehanced performance warranty. After 25 years, LG NeON R is guaranteed at least 87.0% of initial performance.

Great Aesthetics and Durability- LG NeON R has been designed with aesthetics in mind: no electoride on the front. Can increase the valud eof a property with its modern design. Can endure a front load up to 6000 Pa, and a rear load up to 5400 Pa.

Better Performance and LID - Now performs better on sunny days thanks to its improved temperature coefficient. Near zero LID (Light Induced Degradation). The n-type cells used in the LG NeON R have almost no boron, which may cause initial performance degradation, leading to less LID.

General Information
Manufacturer:    LG Solar
Product Line:
   NeON R Series
Model ID:
   LG350Q1C-A5
Certifications and Safety Ratings:    ce.giful.jpg vde.jpg mcs.jpg

Mechanical Data

Technology:    Monocrystalline (Mono)
Dimensions:
   66.93 x 40.00 x 1.57 inches
Weight:    40.79 lbs
Cells:    6 x 10
Cell Type:    Monocrystalline / N-Type
Front Load:
   6000 Pa / 125 psf
Rear Load:    5400 Pa / 113 psf
Connector Type:    MC4
Junction Box:    IP68 with 3 Bypass Diodes
Cables:    1000 mm x 2 Ea
Glass:
   High Transmission Tempered Glass
Frame:    Anodized Aluminum
Certifications:    IEC 61215, IEC 61730-1/-2, UL 1703, IEC 61701 (Salt Mist Corrosion Test), IEC 62716 (Ammonia Corrosion Test), ISO 9001
Module Fire Performance (USA):    Type 1
Operating Temperature:    -40°C to +90°C

Electrical Data

Nominal Maximum Power (Pmax):    360 Watts
MPP Voltage (Vmpp):    36.5 Volts
MPP Current (Impp):    9.87 Amps
Open Circuit Voltage (Voc):    42.70 Volts
Short Circuit Voltage (Isc):    10.79 Amps
Module Efficiency:    20.80%

Datasheets

Document    Type
logo-adobe-pdf-2.jpgLG Electronics LG360Q1C-A5 Specs    Specifications
logo-adobe-pdf-2.jpgLG Electronics Installation Guide    Installation Guide
Warranty    25 Year Product Warranty
Performance Guarantee    25 Year Linear Performance Warranty
logo-adobe-pdf-2.jpgLG Electronics Warranty    Warranty

Cost: $453.60 each plus S&H
Bought from SOLARIS

They will be controlled by there own Victron controller.
I have 4 other 300watt panels (bought from Roger) are on there own Victron controller.
all six panels will be able to be tilted from the ground. the panels can tilt past 90 degrees so they can lay over and give me complete access to the roof without walking a tight rope. Total 1920 watts. piped into 10 Lifeline L16 AGM batteries at 400AH@20%
A Victron 3000w Inverter/charger.
I have 4 panels installed and the mounting for the 2 new panels fastened down. I'm now racing the weather, it will be too cold to use adhesives outside any day now.
I will take some pictures when I get the last 2 panels mounted. Batteries all mounted but need to be wired.

Pretty impressive. Thats 1200 lbs of battery, where did you mount them all?

Re: Solar experiment

Reply #22 – October 23, 2018, 05:39:33 pm

Quote from: jcus – October 23, 2018, 08:56:19 am

Pretty impressive. Thats 1200 lbs of battery, where did you mount them all?

In the front storage bay.
I will post some pictures if I get out there today.

Re: Solar experiment

Reply #23 – October 31, 2018, 08:09:10 pm

Solar systems are like chocolate, once you start, you will want more. I started with 30 watts, then 200 watts, now 1920 watts. Even that is not enough on cloudy, rainy days or shaded campsite. For those installing a new system, I would recommend:

- Sunpower solar panels. Their tech specs are far superior to cheap Chinese panels.
They produce much more power per square foot.
They are more vibration and abuse-resistant.
- 20KWH of lithium batteries. This would cost about $8K.
- Utilize the 30% federal tax rebate.

Re: Solar experiment

Reply #24 – October 31, 2018, 08:31:13 pm

Lots of great panels from China. They are absolutely on top of the latest developments. More vibration and abuse-resistant? Come on, I installed our Chinese panels many years ago and through many branches and small trees, they don't have a mark on them. Solar farms would not use hundreds of thousands of them in the U.S. if they were poor quality.

Our 1140 watt potential is more than enough for our coach. It runs everything including a 50 inch 4K TV and microwave without ever starting the generator and even uses the OEM inverter. The AGM batteries came from a bankrupt solar company and 4kWh only cost $210 for all six. They work fine today.

Throwing megabucks at it sort of defeats the purpose and is a lot more than many of us have budgeted for.

My view!

PIerce

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