Questions About MOT/FOT

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Questions About MOT/FOT

October 27, 2018, 11:30:54 pm

Hi,
Been reading here off and on for a year looking for info on purchasing a used Foretravel in the 1997-2000 age range and 34-36'. Would be a Unicoach also. There seems to be lots of great info here and broad knowledge base which is awesome. We are going to be in TX in a couple of weeks and figured that was the time to stop at MOT at the minimum to see what they have. What I'd like to know is:

1. Do I need a pre purchase inspection when buying from someone like MOT/FOT? Do they go thru them if they actually own the coach(not a consignment) so an inspection is not needed? Don't know what their normal procedure is for a used coach how much "stuff" they fix.
2. Looks like the transmission retarder is preferred over an exhaust type brake?
3. What different engine HP were available in those years? I did look at Beam Alarm website but I guess I missed what engines were available. Is the M11 available in a 34-36' coach? We will towing some sort of vehicle.
4. I know service records are key to get a good feel for how the coach was taken care of. Should I expect at the minimum that it would include the books from FT?
5. Aquahot, love it or leave it? Pursue it on a coach over another one or run away!?
6. How are you guys lifting these up if you need to get a corner off the ground to remove a tire and what type of jack stand are you using? I did see the stands cut from 2X2 or 2X4 steel tubing to get the body up in the air when under it.
7. Generator size...biggest I can get?

That length coach will allow me to keep it in my heated shop at home and I'm able to do potential repair work when needed
service engine oil, trans, shocks, brakes, etc. Hate electrical work..... Wife sews for a living so have that area covered also.

Thanks in advance for any help/suggestions.
Steve

Re: Questions About MOT/FOT

Reply #1 – October 28, 2018, 10:00:48 am

There are so many configurations of those years that it will make your head swim. We had a 97 U295 that was simple and fairly trouble free. We had a 2002 that was a always broken. We have just traded it in. It will probably make the next owner an excellent coach because we have replace everything that typically gives a problem. Did we go back to a trouble free 97? No we fell in love with a slide and the Aquahot and went with a 42' that has even more systems to break than our 02 had. It is just a matter of personal preference, and that will be hard to gauge in advance.

The good thing is that the eight bag suspension will be on all the coaches in your range and if it is in good shape it will drive like a Foretravel should. The generator will be adequate for the coach you buy. Foretravel didn't skimp there. The engine is bigger on a U320 and for the heavier coaches that is nice. The rest amounts to whether you like the floor plan and storage and whether you're happy with propane for the furnace and water heater. Some of us keep trading (hopefully we are done with that) and some people at the Grandvention were still in their original Foretravel after many years and many thousands of miles.

You didn't say where you are located, but Foretravel owners love to show their coaches to friends and are a wealth of information.

Re: Questions About MOT/FOT

Reply #2 – October 28, 2018, 10:07:27 am

You ask a lot...many will reply. MOT and FOT now do some PDI that pretty good, but an inspection on top of that is good once you select a coach. In a 34 or 36 coach....or longer for that matter...the 8.3 is good....friend had it in 34 and it was way more than needed. I assume your tow vehicle reasonable weight.

Probably less likely to see aqua hot in coach you outline. I like ours but that old argument....pro/con

I think more likely you find an older coach at MOT. But just call each and ask them to be on the watch for one for you. And look at our Forum classifieds.

Generator size comes in it will be fine. I prefer retarder. Records are great....overall condition condition condition is key.

Just FYI...the 36 in that age range has been tight supply but recentky i saw several at MOT. I did not give them a thorough look. I think you have a good idea to look at that era coach

Good luck, ask questions as you identifiy a specific coach for sale

Figure spend maybe 10 coach bucks after you buy...making uogrades, unexoected repairs.

Re: Questions About MOT/FOT

Reply #3 – October 28, 2018, 10:19:23 am

Inspection is an absolute must, best money you will ever spend. Keith Rish at MOT or Brett Wolf from the forum are good. 8.3 Cummins in the 295s is good, M11 Cummins 450s are hot rods in the 36 footers.

Look for updated electronics TVs, microwave, inverter and such. Aquahot is nice but can be pricey at 20+ years old.

Re: Questions About MOT/FOT

Reply #4 – October 28, 2018, 10:21:38 am

Hi Steve, I can answer a few of your questions
1. Yes you should get it inspected by an independent inspector. I didn't last year when I bought my 1st ever motorhome, a u320, and now wish I would have. I had not educated myself prior to purchase. You didn't post your location but if your looking at fot or mot there are a couple of good inspectors near there, Brett Wolfe being one of them.
2. I believe that year range all came with retardars... I like ours.
3. I don't know... we have an ISM 450 in our 2000 u320 with 1 slide.. I am very impressed with it.
4 service records are a great thing to have to know the history of the coach, but don't expect them to be with the paperwork,some people keep good records and some don't
5. Aquahot, love mine.
6. Square tube stands are a must if your going to be working under the coach
7. I don't know

Good luck on your search, be patient in your search and you will know when the right coach for you comes along

Keith

Re: Questions About MOT/FOT

Reply #5 – October 28, 2018, 11:24:14 am

Hi Steve; first off, I am coachless right now, but actively looking to purchase another Foretravel! In my opinion, best coach out there!
I owned a '97 U320 40 foot. Have always thought I would like smaller, but believe me 4 feet makes a huge difference. We had issues with our Aqua Hot, but loved it when it worked and would get another! The retarder is like an extra gift when purchasing these coaches. The M11 was a monster and would propel the coach down the highway up and down steep grades with zero problems! Foretravel has well-powered generators in their rigs. No problems there either! Books are a must as there are lots to know on these coaches. If you are lucky, some people keep great records and supply them with their coach's when sold.
Never ever rely on a dealer say so on how great any RV is; get an independent inspection! Oil analysis is a must on used coach's. I know there are several on this site that do inspections and would trust them to set you on a happy course! Right now, MOT has several on their site in the range you are looking for. We have had the no slide and did not miss a slide. Just one less problem to deal with! However, we are most likely going with at least 1 slide with our next rig. Two at the most. Wife's decision, not mine! What I really like about Foretravel is the help that is available for one and the fact that when going down the road or at a roadside stop, everything inside the rig is accessible! That is worth its weight in gold!
I'm sure there are many more on this site that can give you even more information that will be helpful in your decisions.

Re: Questions About MOT/FOT

Reply #6 – October 28, 2018, 11:58:14 am

Steve,

Good choice of years as these do not have slides, which is a good thing. And in all cases, more while tempting, is not better. More adds weight, problems & maintenance costs.

No to Aquahot, electric toilet, electric awnings, slides, multiplex 12-volt switches, all are 'extras' with big issues.

U270 & U295 have a more practical, lighter, simpler to maintain 325 hp 8.3-liter engine with plenty of horsepower.

Good choice of lengths as they fit in more places.

Smallest generator size is a 8000 watt diesel, more than enough, has engine mounted radiator, completely opening a side compartment for storage, and simpler to maintain.

MOT is a good place to buy, request a PDI with a list of stuff needed, service records are a plus and help remove the mystery of what big stuff was done.

Plan to spend another $10,000 after purchase to get problems, old tires, maintenance, etc updated.

Buy your 2^nd motorhome first and stop looking at replacing it. Buy what you want now and for later.

Transmission retarder is a must and only buy a Foretravel with a retarder.

Learn to un-hate 12-volt and 120/240-volt and you will save yourself major frustrations and costs. Otherwise it will be difficult to 'love' your motorhome.

Barry & Cindy

We have had our coach for 18 years and continue to love it. We understand it and can maintain it.

Re: Questions About MOT/FOT

Reply #7 – October 28, 2018, 12:21:04 pm

34' will be Cummins 8.3 ISC or ISL.
36' Will depend. If U320, then ISM 450. Other models Cummins ISL.

AquaHot - personally love it.

Gen, 10 KW or 8KW are both plenty.

I will look for another thread to post here in a bit.

Re: Questions About MOT/FOT

Reply #8 – October 28, 2018, 12:25:53 pm

Lurking for awhile and have some questions

Question on 34 ft control -- was Motorcade Dues

Question about 34' U-270

Re: Questions About MOT/FOT

Reply #9 – October 28, 2018, 02:27:44 pm

Well thanks for all the fast info. I should have mentioned this would be our first MH/camper of any kind. We originally thought about 5th wheel since we already have the truck to pull one. Thinking at this moment the MH might be a better solution for us. I did forget to mention we are in Central Illinois. At some point when I was younger I recall my dad coming to Illinois from San Antonio in a FT...maybe a GV possibly. He said, as I recall it, a dealer for FT for South West TX. I'll have to ask him in a couple of weeks.

I've been going thru old threads on here to see what repairs are reoccurring, such as the entry step. 20 pages in so far

So the listed prices for used coaches at MOT/FOT are they firm, or no you should expect to get at least X % off no matter what? Let's use $50K for listing price, you would expect what to be a realistic selling price?

How much heat do the strips on the A/C put out? Just enough to take the chill off maybe?

Looks like AH is a 50/50 vote maybe?
Slides are not a mandatory thing for us. We can take it or leave it. Only two of us and a little cat.
Johnstons: My head is already spinning from the different model numbers and what they mean, AH vs propane vs 1 or 2 furnaces, 2 valves or 3 valves, Oak, Cherry, Walnut......

Michael & Jackie: Part of the reason to stop at MOT is what they have in used inventory.
AC7880: I looked thru the links you posted... some good info in them.
bbeane: The upgraded electronics I have been watching. Some still have what looks like a 19" TV in them!!. That won't work for us.
Have also been looking at inverter sizes too. Have seen Brett and Keith mentioned on here for inspections. Also watching how many batteries are onboard each of them.
juicesquezzer: That's part of the attraction to the FT is the support on this site. Being able to do lots of the repairs hopefully myself the help is sort of priceless.
Barry&Cindy: I can limp along on electrical issues and have many resources willing to help on that front. I like to work on stuff I can see move and working.
Thanks again
Steve

Re: Questions About MOT/FOT

Reply #10 – October 28, 2018, 03:05:03 pm

I had a great experience buying my coach at MOT.

Brett Wolfe did my PPI. He is a moderator here.

Re: Questions About MOT/FOT

Reply #11 – October 28, 2018, 03:37:00 pm

Quote from: Jeff & Sandy – October 28, 2018, 03:05:03 pm

Brett Wolfe did my PPI. He is a moderator here.

No wonder you had no big problems, we have Brett & Dianne Wolfe's coach, AND IT SHOWS!

Re: Questions About MOT/FOT

Reply #12 – October 28, 2018, 04:07:47 pm

The aquahot smooths the temp swings during heating, quieter, less dry air. Heats the bays, unlimited hot water.

Re: Questions About MOT/FOT

Reply #13 – October 28, 2018, 04:51:33 pm

Aqua hot is a yes. Like cruise control and power windows, once you have it you don't want to go back.
MOT does a PDI on systems function, FOT does similar. Basically will tell you on a consigned coach what is working and what if anything needs repair. PDI by our Brett or Keith R at MOT in his off hours strongly recommended no matter where you buy coach

Tim Fiedler
Gen-Pro.biz
630 240-9139

Re: Questions About MOT/FOT

Reply #14 – October 28, 2018, 05:14:46 pm

I don't want to offend any of my Aquahot loving friends on the forum, but I don't have it and would not want it. Not because of expensive repairs or maintenance, although the expense can be considerable, but because whenever I have been camped in an area where higher end coaches abound (FOT for instance), the smell of burning diesel bothers me, and more importantly, my other half whose olfactory senses are several orders of magnitude more sensitive than mine. That is one reason that we try to minimize generator usage as much as possible. That said, I am by no means fond of noisy propane furnaces. I love the concept of hydronic heat, I just wish that the LP option as an energy source for it was more available. I intend to install an Atwood Excalibur XT (2 stage furnace) to try and deal with the noise aspect of the current unit, but I would eventually like to pursue installing an LP hydronic unit, even if I have to roll my own. Now certainly, we are in a tiny minority of Aquahot naysayers, so that needn't enter into your calculations. Some have said to me that a properly maintained Aquahot doesn't smell... much. So far, I haven't been next to one being used that didn't smell like burning diesel but perhaps we have been camped next to one and it was so clean burning that we didn't know it. Most of the time it isn't a big problem unless the breeze is unfavorable, but there have been times... That said, I know that many use the electric option with Aquahot and that of course doesn't have an odor or make noise, just not a boondocking friendly option.
Don

Re: Questions About MOT/FOT

Reply #15 – October 28, 2018, 05:25:33 pm

Unimog, wer'e still trying to find out where you live.

Re: Questions About MOT/FOT

Reply #16 – October 28, 2018, 05:42:06 pm

And, indeed if you do have a Unimog.

Re: Questions About MOT/FOT

Reply #17 – October 28, 2018, 06:28:49 pm

Propane furnaces and water heater do generate smells. As does the diesel Aquahot. Fairly small amount if adjusted for the altitude somewhat correctly.

Aqua hot makes the coach all season without doing anything but turn it on down into -20F or more.

Versus eliminate easy use in a large percentage of the country over a long term.

Not that most want cold.

You can run out of propane running furnaces or water heater if parked long enough.

Running off the main tank the run time available is 500- 1,000 hours. Run time.

Re: Questions About MOT/FOT

Reply #18 – October 28, 2018, 07:00:46 pm

No argument on your other points except to say that our large propane tank makes planning for fills easy. We fill up maybe once a year, unless boondocking more than usual. As to the smell factor, I don't think there is any contest. I have to be right on the exhaust vent to smell the LP appliances at all, and then it isn't particularly objectionable. Not so with the smell of diesel. As a matter of curiosity, if anyone who has a perfectly tuned Aquahot wants to demonstrate the low odoriferousness of their unit, I would be interested! Now leaking LP is a different matter altogether... that odor is there for a reason and is not a situation one wants to accept! But of course, most consider Aquahot a very desirable feature, I know that. I am just saying it is not a universal obsession

Don

Quote from: Caflashbob – October 28, 2018, 06:28:49 pm

Propane furnaces and water heater do generate smells. As does the diesel Aquahot. Fairly small amount if adjusted for the altitude somewhat correctly.

Re: Questions About MOT/FOT

Reply #19 – October 28, 2018, 07:20:24 pm

We purchased our ex Foretravel from Foretravel in 2013. It was a consignment coach. At that time, Foretravel performed a 83 point inspection on consignment coaches. We had owned a gas model Class A Winnebago at that time. I trusted Foretravel on their inspection and did not have another pre-purchase inspection. We had no service records, so we had Foretravel perform a lot of maintenance to give us a starting point. After purchase, we had no surprises on motorhome or equipment failures.
As to slides and aqua-hot. For a more maintenance free coach, go for no aquahot and no slides. For a luxury coach, go for slides and aqua-hot. Just set aside a maintenance fund for the future maintenance. If you doubt you will need this fund, just read prior post on these topics on the forum. Read about the slide bladder, the air compressor, etc. and all the calls to the resident expert Rudy for the auqa-hot. And, then read all the posts on the propane furnace, If, you can find any.

Re: Questions About MOT/FOT

Reply #20 – October 28, 2018, 07:37:41 pm

Think of it from a different perspective...

There are several who make a living just keeping Aquahot maintained and repaired. There are no techs who make a living keeping propane furnaces and hot water tanks working.

After 20-30 years of use or from an unexpected failure one can buy a car for the price of a replacement Aquahot.

Aquahot units take up a lot of bay space and are heavy.

Foretravel mounted some Aquahot units in almost unreachable inner bay dark spaces with very tight access to many plumbing fittings, valves & pumps all of which can leak or corrode. Not to mention all the rubber heater hoses running around in the coach living area.

Propane hot water tanks and furnaces are not without their issues, but none compare to the above.

Other than these things, Aquahot is a wonderful way to have unlimited hot water and warm and cozy interior and bays and to pre-heat engines. Most who have it love it.

We feel an obligation to share information for new prospective buyers, and have no desire to argue with or criticize our many friends who have Aquahot Foretravels.

Even if we had Aquahot, I would want new buyers to be aware of these issues.

Re: Questions About MOT/FOT

Reply #21 – October 28, 2018, 09:13:51 pm

Aqua hot vs Propane seems to have some energy about it. You will find similar energy on residential vs propane refrigerator, battery discussions, tire discussions and one or two other topics that have "chevy vs ford" - or "hayfields vs McCoy"s feel to them.

Moost of us that have AquaHot came out of a coach with Propane furnaces (for the record I had two Foretravel with Propane furnaces, an OREG and a 1999 U-270 before buying my current 2000 U-320 that is aquahot equipped.) Most of the folks arguing against Aqua Hots have never owned a coach that is aquahot equipped. Makes sense, because liekly they made a deliberate decision to avoid an Aquahot.

Aqua hots can surprise you with a large $$$ repair, from time to time (a coach buck or more) but realistically very few are actually "replaced" with a rebuild or new unless there was a freeze up for some reason, usually avoidable.

In my case I liked the simplicity of the propane furnace. But in my U-270 there were two noisy furnaces and one propane hot water heater, three devices that took the place of one aquahot. I can just say that as a person that has owned a Foretravel with both, my choice is easiliy to opt for an Aquahot. But any well maintained Foretravel is a great coach, regardless of the style of heater. But ask yourself, if Aquahots were such a bad thing to have in a coach, why would all of us who came out of Propane furnaces not be pining to go back to propane and why wouldnt an aquahot coach be hard to sell if the system had so many drawbacks in real world use?

How to keep your aquahot happy.
1- USE IT OFTEN!!!!!!
2 - Learn how to do the simple maintenance items and if you do buy your parts form Rudy Legget
3 - If you dont do your own routine maintenance - use someone who does enough to know what he is doing - or use Rudy
4 - USE IT OFTEN -
5 - Yup, once in a while you might see a significant bill on the repair of an Aquahot, but in general that cost and maintenance isnt much different than airbags when needed, tires when needed, batteries when needed, shocks when needed, steering box when needed, fuel lines when needed (I think you get the point.

MOst folks figure out a budget, and look for the floorpan they like, then make sure the maintenance is current, and reasonably well documented. SOme (like me) had a few more requirements (aqua hot and a single slide, 2000-2001, 40-42').

Let us know how you feel and what you figure out. A trip to MOT and FOT really valuable bcause you can see a LOT of product and frankly the prices in NAC accurately reflect what most of these coaches trade at since so many of them trade via these outlets.

elcome again!

Re: Questions About MOT/FOT

Reply #22 – October 28, 2018, 09:27:01 pm

Well lets start with Brett. I have had two Unimogs, a 406 with a removable backhoe and snow plow and a 1300L. Really amazing trucks and capable of unbelievable terrain crossing ability at the rated GVW. The degree of a hill they can climb and descend or cross sideways is an extremely uncomfortable feeling. The pucker factor is what holds you to the seat...it's that bad. Gear reductions so low that you can get out and walk faster than the truck is moving. I think there are 100 attachments for the front and rear of a 406. PTO's front and rear on mine. They are used in Europe in farming and forestry, in the US for state DOT trucks. The 406 went to MN and the 1300L went to Peoria Illinois to become an expedition camper. I was on a Unimog forum like this one to some degree. There was lots of knowledge throughout but one person was a walking Unimog encyclopedia. He worked for the importer of the Unimog from Mercedes Benz in Germany. He could tell you what the bolt size was that held on the most trivial thing and the thread pitch.....on and on. Never saw him not have an answer to a question. He also had great stories of Unimogs in action all over the world, like the time they were moving snow with a front mounted snow blower and the snow was so deep they didn't see the Toyota covered up in the snow until they saw sparks coming out of the discharge chutes!!! He died while I still had the 1300L, what a huge loss.

Also Brett did I see you are in the Austin area?

I'm located in Central Illinois around Peoria, must have left that out of my second post.

So on the AH, I guess if it has it great, if not great also. It was on my list of "like to have", not necessarily have to half. I have a diesel fired hot water pressure washer, it has an injector type of nozzle and makes a big fire in the boiler to heat the water. I'd guess there are some similarities to the functions of heating in both units maybe? I'm sure as mentioned that I could find someone I know to work on a propane furnace. I'm assuming that the propane furnaces also heat the storage bays?? I would hope so.

Did I see like 100 gallon capacity for propane? Sounds like if that is the right capacity you should get considerable run time out of that....unless it's very cold.

I think no slides is fine for us, agree with all the points on that topic.

We are looking at more than likely stopping at MOT on the way into TX as our first of three stops in TX. I plan on calling them Monday or Tuesday. Anyone in particular you guys recommend to speak with? Also did I see any contact info for Keith at MOT?

Thanks again for all the info.
Steve

Re: Questions About MOT/FOT

Reply #23 – October 28, 2018, 09:45:14 pm

If the buyer is not going ever into cold weather than the propane is fine. In mild weather the 110v aquahot element is enough to heat the coach and unlimited hot water.

Re: Questions About MOT/FOT

Reply #24 – October 28, 2018, 10:15:15 pm

Quote from: Don & Tys – October 28, 2018, 07:00:46 pm

No argument on your other points except to say that our large propane tank makes planning for fills easy. We fill up maybe once a year, unless boondocking more than usual. As to the smell factor, I don't think there is any contest. I have to be right on the exhaust vent to smell the LP appliances at all, and then it isn't particularly objectionable. Not so with the smell of diesel. As a matter of curiosity, if anyone who has a perfectly tuned Aquahot wants to demonstrate the low odoriferousness of their unit, I would be interested! Now leaking LP is a different matter altogether... that odor is there for a reason and is not a situation one wants to accept! But of course, most consider Aquahot a very desirable feature, I know that. I am just saying it is not a universal obsession
Don

Well don, you will be glad to know that Aqua Hot is working on a propane unit, They showed us the preliminary unit at their school in August. If memory serves me, I think they are putting them in big trucks first--didn't say when they would be ready for coaches
Chris

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